Synapse Lol ?

[GottFaust]

I wasn't talking about Flux vs Synapse.  You said Synapse had the highest DPS of any primary.  I said no.

 

While my tables haven't been made to function with double crits, I sincerely doubt that the damage boost would cause the gun to exceed the Soma, let alone the theoretical DPS of the Hind.

 

EDIT: actually..  maybe it would be that high..  Double crits are basically a 25% chance to crit on top of a crit, so..  I'm looking at it now in the graph and..  Well, could someone double check my formula?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlWVt6vp3-YWdHZJRTBvRTBrNGNrb3dNbEZsc0tZVHc#gid=3

 

It's in the Raw Stats tab, column AO.

"Perfect" Soma Build

• Cryo Rounds
• Piercing Hit
• Point Strike
• Serration
• Shred
• Speed Trigger
• Split Chamber
• Vital Sense

DPS

11410.179

Details

Name :: Soma 

Magazine Size :: 100

Total Ammo :: 640

Crit Chance :: 87.5%

Crit Damage Multiplier :: 660%

Fire Rate :: 28.5 rounds per second

Reload Time :: 3 seconds

Damage :: 125.875

Damage Shields :: 171.19

Damage Corpus :: 125.875

Damage Grineer :: 188.812

Damage Infested :: 125.875

Crit Damage :: 830.775

Crit Damage to Shields :: 1129.854

Crit Damage to Corpus :: 830.775

Crit Damage to Grineer :: 1246.163

Crit Damage to Infested :: 830.775

Average Damage :: 742.662

Average Damage to Shields :: 1010.021

Average Damage to Corpus :: 742.662

Average Damage to Grineer :: 1113.994

Average Damage to Infested :: 742.662

Damage per Mag :: 74266.25

Damage per Mag to Shields :: 101002.1

Damage per Mag to Corpus :: 74266.25

Damage per Mag to Grineer :: 111399.375

Damage per Mag to Infested :: 74266.25

DPS :: 11410.179

DPS to Shields :: 15517.843

DPS to Corpus :: 11410.179

DPS to Grineer :: 17115.268

DPS to Infested :: 11410.179

Burst DPS :: 21165.881

Burst DPS to Shields :: 28785.598

Burst DPS to Corpus :: 21165.881

Burst DPS to Grineer :: 31748.822

Burst DPS to Infested :: 21165.881

The Synapse is better not even counting the full red crits (which my calc assumes are double not the roughly 10x that they are in game as of now).

As to the hind's Theoretical DPS of 19k that is true, but there are a LOT of bugs with it currently and it will never actually reach that number:

• Fire rate mods do not affect the burst speed.
• Fire rate mods do not affect the refire time.
• The burst speed is directly affected by your frames per second.
• The re-fire speed is limited by the burst time and also heavily limited by frames per second.

[LazyKnight]

-Snipe-

 

Have you ever done the spool calculation for either soma or supra on any of your tables? If you have can you show me the math you used.

[GottFaust]

Have you ever done the spool calculation for either soma or supra on any of your tables? If you have can you show me the math you used.

I've got spool on the version at home, at work currently, but I'm holding off releasing it until they put out Armor/Damage 2.0 which is probably going to involve a complete rewrite of my calc.

I'll update that post when I get off work.

Edited September 23, 2013 by GottFaust

[LazyKnight]

I've got spool on the version at home, at work currently, but I'm holding off releasing it until they put out Armor/Damage 2.0 which is probably going to involve a complete rewrite of my calc.

I'll update that post when I get off work.

Ah, ok thanks.

 

I have been averaging down the fire rate to 14 as base because I am unsure how many shots soma requires to achieve it's full fire rate. I would like to see the proper way to do the spool time anyway. I assume it is 10%,20%, 30% etc. for each bullet up till peak is reached.

Edited September 23, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Volt_Cruelerz]

-snip-

When looking at what you're saying, our systems are giving us slightly different values on the Flux, though those differences apparently become quite large when dealing with the Soma which you have pegged at 11k while I've got it as high as 26.8k.  I assume you're correct here, but I have no idea where I went wrong.

[GottFaust]

When looking at what you're saying, our systems are giving us slightly different values on the Flux, though those differences apparently become quite large when dealing with the Soma which you have pegged at 11k while I've got it as high as 26.8k.  I assume you're correct here, but I have no idea where I went wrong.

It's probably the reloads and mag sizes. I factor those into my calculations.

[Phoenix86]

Volt, Gott... when you are done let us know, poor mortals, this simple answer:

 

Flux > Synapse

Flux < Synapse

Flux > Soma

Flux < Soma

Synapse < Soma

Snynapse > Soma

 

:D

[GottFaust]

Synapse > Soma > Flux as far as my calculations go.

[sh0Zz]

So you compare full mods with 1 mod ?

 

Thing is, this was never about what a Full Modded Synapse with 50% Damage from Electro Shield

can do on a Level 10 Boss or a Level 20 Mob.

Synapse is the most expensive Rifle in the Game atm. and it's so hard limited in his capabilities,

even an easy to acquire Soma is doing a better Job right now.

It was more like to show how bad and unfinished the Infested Weapons that we got with U10 are.

Edited September 23, 2013 by .fraGmepleaZz

[GottFaust]

Thing is, this was never about what a Full Modded Synapse with 50% Damage from Electro Shield

can do on a Level 10 Boss or a Level 20 Mob.

Synapse is the most expensive Rifle in the Game atm. and it's so hard limited in his capabilities,

even an easy to acquire Soma is doing a better Job right now.

It was more like to show how bad and unfinished the Infested Weapons that we got with U10 are.

The Synapse is cheaper than the Supra now, and is better than the Soma.

[Earris]

Synapse > Soma > Flux as far as my calculations go.

 

For Volt this would be correct

for other frames Soma > Synapse > Flux

[GottFaust]

For Volt this would be correct

for other frames Soma > Synapse > Flux

Did you bother to look at the numbers posted a page back? Your info is incorrect.

[Guest]

it has a 50% crit chance.

A 50% CRIT CHANCE!

point strike makes this gun have a total of 125% crit chance.

this gun is probably unstoppable, unless you use it against ancients like you did

dont forget

 

RED CRITS!

 

 

RED!!

 

 

CRITS!!!

 

 

FLDIUGJ:LNEG:AIOFAS":LMVALDB

 

:|

Edited September 23, 2013 by Guest

[Volt_Cruelerz]

It's probably the reloads and mag sizes. I factor those into my calculations.

I factor those in for sustained DPS, but even when comparing my burst damage to yours, it's different :(

 

I'm not saying yours is wrong, but idk where the error would be in mine.

[GottFaust]

I factor those in for sustained DPS, but even when comparing my burst damage to yours, it's different :(

 

I'm not saying yours is wrong, but idk where the error would be in mine.

You can find a simplified version of my formulas in the DPS calc thread pinned in the Players Helping Players forum. I can quote them here if needed.

If you find any errors, feel free to point them out.

[Djangofett]

How come your "Perfect" Synapse build has Hammer Shot and your "Perfect" Soma build doesn't?

[GottFaust]

How come your "Perfect" Synapse build has Hammer Shot and your "Perfect" Soma build doesn't?

The Soma gets more DPS from the Shred fire rate bonus than Hammer Shot's crit damage bonus. The reason I don't have Shred or Speed Trigger on the Synapse is that it does not work with fire rate mods. No continuous-fire weapons do currently.

[Earris]

Did you bother to look at the numbers posted a page back? Your info is incorrect.

 

I did but your builds are not perfect and thus i changed your statement to a point that my math shows is more correct.

 

Build for Synapse would be 

Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Split Chamber, Stormbringer, Piercing Hit, (Cryo Rounds Bane Mood would probably do better but i have not yet tested how it interacts with Stormbringer)

 

Edit clarification:

 

For a Mob without armor your assumption is correct but after all the Synapse is a Electrical gun and thus gets quite different values in the real game due to reduction of damage.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Earris

[GottFaust]

I did but your builds are not perfect and thus i changed your statement to a point that my math shows is more correct.

 

Build for Soma would be

Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Split Chamber, Speed Trigger, Shred, Piercing Hit

 

Build for Synapse would be 

Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Split Chamber, Stormbringer, Piercing Hit, (Cryo Rounds Bane Mood would probably do better but i have not yet tested how it interacts with Stormbringer)

Lets use your builds:

Soma

DPS

9251.914

Details

Name :: Soma

Magazine Size :: 100

Total Ammo :: 640

Crit Chance :: 87.5%

Crit Damage Multiplier :: 840%

Fire Rate :: 28.5 rounds per second

Reload Time :: 3 seconds

Damage :: 80.56

Damage Shields :: 80.56

Damage Corpus :: 80.56

Damage Grineer :: 120.84

Damage Infested :: 80.56

Crit Damage :: 676.704

Crit Damage to Shields :: 676.704

Crit Damage to Corpus :: 676.704

Crit Damage to Grineer :: 1015.056

Crit Damage to Infested :: 676.704

Average Damage :: 602.186

Average Damage to Shields :: 602.186

Average Damage to Corpus :: 602.186

Average Damage to Grineer :: 903.279

Average Damage to Infested :: 602.186

Damage per Mag :: 60218.6

Damage per Mag to Shields :: 60218.6

Damage per Mag to Corpus :: 60218.6

Damage per Mag to Grineer :: 90327.9

Damage per Mag to Infested :: 60218.6

DPS :: 9251.914

DPS to Shields :: 9251.914

DPS to Corpus :: 9251.914

DPS to Grineer :: 13877.871

DPS to Infested :: 9251.914

Burst DPS :: 17162.301

Burst DPS to Shields :: 17162.301

Burst DPS to Corpus :: 17162.301

Burst DPS to Grineer :: 25743.452

Burst DPS to Infested :: 17162.301

Synapse

DPS

12560.136

Details

Name :: Synapse

Magazine Size :: 100

Total Ammo :: 640

Crit Chance :: 125%

Crit Damage Multiplier :: 560%

Fire Rate :: 10 rounds per second

Reload Time :: 1.5 seconds

Damage :: 213.987

Damage Shields :: 270.631

Damage Corpus :: 541.262

Damage Grineer :: 213.987

Damage Infested :: 213.987

Crit Damage :: 1198.33

Crit Damage to Shields :: 1515.535

Crit Damage to Corpus :: 3031.07

Crit Damage to Grineer :: 1198.33

Crit Damage to Infested :: 1198.33

Average Damage :: 1444.416

Average Damage to Shields :: 1826.761

Average Damage to Corpus :: 3653.522

Average Damage to Grineer :: 1444.416

Average Damage to Infested :: 1444.416

Damage per Mag :: 144441.562

Damage per Mag to Shields :: 182676.094

Damage per Mag to Corpus :: 365352.187

Damage per Mag to Grineer :: 144441.562

Damage per Mag to Infested :: 144441.562

DPS :: 12560.136

DPS to Shields :: 15884.878

DPS to Corpus :: 31769.755

DPS to Grineer :: 12560.136

DPS to Infested :: 12560.136

Burst DPS :: 14444.156

Burst DPS to Shields :: 18267.609

Burst DPS to Corpus :: 36535.219

Burst DPS to Grineer :: 14444.156

Burst DPS to Infested :: 14444.156

Nope, the Synapse is still better than the Soma, and your build actually has significantly worse DPS than my "Perfect" build.  

Sorry man, but the Synapse is just a better gun.

[Earris]

As said your math is incorrect Stormbringer works like an additional Serration type mod on the Synapse.

 

For the Soma Build i used one that maximizes the amount of armor pen damage i get.

I edited it out due to the fact that you dont seem to take that in part of your calculation.

 

 

Also this is why i still stand to my point that the Soma will get you a better result in Missions unless you are Volt where in the end it comes down to how much Armor Ignoring dmg you can do.

[LazyKnight]

Also this is why i still stand to my point that the Soma will get you a better result in Missions unless you are Volt where in the end it comes down to how much Armor Ignoring dmg you can do.

The lower legs of ancients are completely unarmored with a 2 modifier to fire and 1 for all else, the little chargers are broken NPC past level 140 and even Scott knows this. The only faction in game that is it is paramount to stack AP is grineer.

Edited September 23, 2013 by LazyKnight

[GottFaust]

As said your math is incorrect Stormbringer works like an additional Serration type mod on the Synapse.

 

For the Soma Build i used one that maximizes the amount of armor pen damage i get.

I edited it out due to the fact that you dont seem to take that in part of your calculation.

 

 

Also this is why i still stand to my point that the Soma will get you a better result in Missions unless you are Volt where in the end it comes down to how much Armor Ignoring dmg you can do.

There is no difference between bullet and electrical damage where armor is concerned...

Making up random stuff will not make the Soma better...

Also: My Synapse build has significantly more AP damage output than your Soma build.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

You can find a simplified version of my formulas in the DPS calc thread pinned in the Players Helping Players forum. I can quote them here if needed.

If you find any errors, feel free to point them out.

After a bunch of wasted time, I realized we are doing the same math (aside from the recent change I made to allow it to account for double-crits).  We're just using different builds.  When using the same build, we get the same results.

 

Here is an updated graph.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlWVt6vp3-YWdHZJRTBvRTBrNGNrb3dNbEZsc0tZVHc#gid=3

 

 

The Soma gets more DPS from the Shred fire rate bonus than Hammer Shot's crit damage bonus....

Now that I have validated my method, I would like to say this is incorrect.  It's a fairly small small difference in terms of burst DPS, but it shows up more in sustained DPS (13.1k vs 11.4k).  Building with Hammer Shot does help the Soma more.

 

 

Volt, Gott... when you are done let us know, poor mortals, this simple answer:

 

Flux > Synapse

Flux < Synapse

Flux > Soma

Flux < Soma

Synapse < Soma

Snynapse > Soma

 

:D

 

Once fully modded, the Synapse gets the highest DPS of any weapon in the game, both in terms of burst and sustained.

 

As such, Synapse > Soma > Flux

Edited September 23, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[GottFaust]

After a bunch of wasted time, I realized we are doing the same math (aside from the recent change I made to allow it to account for double-crits).  We're just using different builds.  When using the same build, we get the same results.

 

Here is an updated graph.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlWVt6vp3-YWdHZJRTBvRTBrNGNrb3dNbEZsc0tZVHc#gid=3

 

 

Now that I have validated my method, I would like to say this is incorrect.  It's a fairly small small difference in terms of burst DPS, but it shows up more in sustained DPS (13.1k vs 11.4k).  Building with Hammer Shot does help the Soma more.

A valid point.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

As said your math is incorrect Stormbringer works like an additional Serration type mod on the Synapse.

 

For the Soma Build i used one that maximizes the amount of armor pen damage i get.

I edited it out due to the fact that you dont seem to take that in part of your calculation.

 

 

Also this is why i still stand to my point that the Soma will get you a better result in Missions unless you are Volt where in the end it comes down to how much Armor Ignoring dmg you can do.

It works like another Serration mod in the sense that it contributes to the main damage element, but in terms of the base damage that is used to calculate other elements like AP, it is not used.

 

Electric damage still has to go through armor you know...

 

The point is this:

 

Is it the case that Sonar is not currently active and the enemy in question has stupid amounts of armor such that you need all the AI damage you can get?

Yes: Acrid

No: Synapse

 

That is basically how you decide which weapon to use because each one of those will be the best under the given circumstances assuming you're a human being that uses common sense.  Maxed Synapse is under all circumstances (once the target is in range) better than a maxed Soma, not to mention the fun little ammo-dump/vaporization bug is probably alive and well in the Synapse.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz