See? I Told You.

[Azure_Kytia]

-snip-

 

See those are merely the mechanics from a surface level understanding of the way the game works, unfortunately. From a Performance and Quality standpoint, there is a lot of polish left to do, which has been left for half a year. Physics are yet to be tied to Deltatime, causing weapon fire rate issues as well as constant battles with staircases when you're at a crappy computer or the game's lagging. Fighting with your back up against a wall is still next to impossible (Hello, Tennoback!! :D), Parkour Physics are set up with an elastic band. AI still doesn't remotely react to Parkour, you'd think it'd throw them off somewhat or affect their aim. Lore hasn't been fleshed out anywhere near to a decent level, and they forgot what they even called their first storyline.

 

Blocking is still pretty useless, a few mods doesn't and hasn't changed that. Dodging was finally updated, which I approve of, but we've still got a lot of things that need fixing, to be sure.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[Kalenath]

If telling the truth and being transparent were things DE did there would be no need for Tin foil hats and Paranoia.

 

You can't handle the truth. Sad but true. Most people here couldn't. Not an insult. A fact.

 

I have.  Simply put they have stated why they said what they did (poor internal communication) and unless someone can prove otherwise then the accusation is faulty and a lie itself since it is done intentionally while knowing the facts that are out and as stated.

 

In short, just like most justice systems, innocent until PROVEN guilty.

 

UNLESS you are a cop. paramedic firefighter or politician, in which case you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. (And others as dictated by mass media. ie internet forums)

 

Not the way the law works you say? HA! I say. Read the newspapers sometime.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Kalenath

[Darayas]

Twice - the rewards are diluted , twice the answer was they changed the tables.

are you not aware what lying is?

 

i did not insult them i merely stated the practices they used.

they made mistakes.. sure .

did they own up to them? .... only after the data proved they did.

Apology and platinum , mere damage control at that point. that's how a business operates.

 

Emotional context has no meaning in this argument fact are facts.

Hanlon's Razor - @#&$-up before Conspiracy. Read up on that. There is an overwhelming trend to mistrust a firm like DE because it seems to be the towering organization, the monolithic bad guy, but I would trust them over an uninformed member like you. Your tone reeks of self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of superiority. "Mere damage control"...be thankful you even got the apology and the platinum. If this game had been run by Nexon, you wouldn't have gotten anything except a ban for no reason.

 

As an aside, "facts" are never "facts" in issues like these. Context gives facts significance. Ask any historian or social scientist.

 

You can't handle the truth. Sad but true. Most people here couldn't. Not an insult. A fact.

 

 

UNLESS you are a cop. paramedic firefighter or politician, in which case you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. (And others as dictated by mass media. ie internet forums)

 

Not the way the law works you say? HA! I say. Read the newspapers sometime.

Incorrect. The law does not treat people as guilty until they are proven innocent. If that was the case, all suspects would be locked behind bars in regular prison systems and compounds until their defense team proves their innocence. Suspects are only temporarily held and some of their rights taken away until further evidence emerges that strongly suggests either their innocence or their guilt, at which point these rights are either given back or curtailed to a greater extent respectively. 

[TisEric]

You can't handle the truth. Sad but true. Most people here couldn't. Not an insult. A fact.

 

 

UNLESS you are a cop. paramedic firefighter or politician, in which case you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. (And others as dictated by mass media. ie internet forums)

 

Not the way the law works you say? HA! I say. Read the newspapers sometime.

 

Couldn't handle it? whats you gauge on that.

[RoboDoge]

Community didnt rage or QQ without a reason. There was alot of disappointment after the U8, U9 and especially U10. But i am glady that something might be changed after all this.

 

DE people arent monsters and villians as some people think. I know  their business tacitcs might seem a little harsh at some time, but we sometimes forget that they are a company that needs to pay their own eployees.

 

They simply took some bad choices in game design and got a little lost. Nothing that cannot be changed. We just need to wait and see what they can do to fix this game.

Edited September 21, 2013 by RoboDog

[TisEric]

Hanlon's Razor - @#&$-up before Conspiracy. Read up on that. There is an overwhelming trend to mistrust a firm like DE because it seems to be the towering organization, the monolithic bad guy, but I would trust them over an uninformed member like you. Your tone reeks of self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of superiority. "Mere damage control"...be thankful you even got the apology and the platinum. If this game had been run by Nexon, you wouldn't have gotten anything except a ban for no reason.

 

As an aside, "facts" are never "facts" in issues like these. Context gives facts significance. Ask any historian or social scientist.

 

Incorrect. The law does not treat people as guilty until they are proven innocent. If that was the case, all suspects would be locked behind bars in regular prison systems and compounds until their defense team proves their innocence. Suspects are only temporarily held and some of their rights taken away until further evidence emerges that strongly suggests either their innocence or their guilt, at which point these rights are either given back or curtailed to a greater extent respectively. 

 

Maybe you should cool your jets.

The mistrust in DE is not because they seems to be a "towering organization, the monolithic bad guy" on the contrary they seem much more down to earth , one of the mill guys . type of company.

Mistrust was gained through continued misinformation , lack of acknowledgment of feedback and a pattern of dishonesty.

"uninformed member like you." sure, assume i'm uninformed.

Years of my life spent being part of game development either through betas or other means gives me a S#&$ ton of context and information to draw from when coming to these conclusions, Jaded i may be.

 

"Your tone reeks of self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of superiority"

 I lol at that statement.

 

"be thankful you even got the apology and the platinum"

I didn't ask for an apology or platinum , i want them to fix the game and be honest about whats happening.

they can keep their platinum.

 

"f this game had been run by Nexon, you wouldn't have gotten anything except a ban for no reason."

comparing a muti national company like Nexon and a small 100 man studio like DE is laughable at best.

 

i have plenty of experience with nexon and they do the best they can for a company that big, even the smallest link in the chain will cause massive issues on their side.

DE on the other hand are independent and small, the employees have some sort of sense who is working where and on what.

so things like this should not happen, unless there is a colossal miss management of resources and communication within the studio itself. 

 

 

there is context to these facts, 2 times they have been caught red handed , changing the loot tables in secret when adding new content to the void, when people spend real cash on void packs for these new things.

stop acting like they are innocent or beyond fault.

Edited September 21, 2013 by TisEric

[Niryco]

See those are merely the mechanics from a surface level understanding of the way the game works, unfortunately. From a Performance and Quality standpoint, there is a lot of polish left to do, which has been left for half a year. Physics are yet to be tied to Deltatime, causing weapon fire rate issues as well as constant battles with staircases when you're at a crappy computer or the game's lagging. Fighting with your back up against a wall is still next to impossible (Hello, Tennoback!! :D), Parkour Physics are set up with an elastic band. AI still doesn't remotely react to Parkour, you'd think it'd throw them off somewhat or affect their aim. Lore hasn't been fleshed out anywhere near to a decent level, and they forgot what they even called their first storyline.

 

Blocking is still pretty useless, a few mods doesn't and hasn't changed that. Dodging was finally updated, which I approve of, but we've still got a lot of things that need fixing, to be sure.

But if DE were to revamp everything, what would the cost be? I agree that they are very basic mechanics but they all seem to be at their limits and when DE revamps on them, the forum community in general(not all) says it is malice when it is not. DE has been constantly placing in ambitious fixes but i see many players don't see it that way, they see DE making the game harder and longer so to benefit their profit making of what business generalized with as corrupt greedy people. This is a view i do not agree too as it is an uninformed generalization of DE, but at the rate the community is progressing it is total annihilation since most efforts are hardly recognized.

 

So do you think the game is in a need of a major overhaul, or is it going to be a constant player disagreeing with mechanics fixes which the community, they themselves asked for in the first place (which i made a post before trying to explain how the community is mostly having a war against themselves and they just direct their hate towards DE when they don't like a solution provided)

Edited September 21, 2013 by Jacate

[Kalenath]

Couldn't handle it? whats you gauge on that.

 

My gauge is all the silliness that people here and elsewhere spout when they don't have all the information and either assume they do or don't care. They make suppositions and insist those are reality without bothering to check on the actual reality. Maybe YOU could handle the truth. Sad to say, most people on these forums could NOT.

 

Most people (not JUST on the internet, but a good sample there)  don't WANT the truth. They want platitudes. They want their comfortable lives uninterrupted. They want LIES if the lies are comfortable.

 

As for the people who want total transparency?

 

You want to know all the ins and outs of a small business? EVERY SINGLE aspect. Budget, payroll, personnel time on task, personnel time off off task, website maintenance, record keeping, staff memos... etc, etc, etc?

 

Do YOU have time to keep up with all of that? I don't.

 

 

Incorrect. The law does not treat people as guilty until they are proven innocent. If that was the case, all suspects would be locked behind bars in regular prison systems and compounds until their defense team proves their innocence. Suspects are only temporarily held and some of their rights taken away until further evidence emerges that strongly suggests either their innocence or their guilt, at which point these rights are either given back or curtailed to a greater extent respectively.

 

A lawyer or judge's answer. Speaking as a former paramedic? I have to disagree. We were all guilty until proven innocent. And sometimes guilty even then.

 

If we could EVER POSSIBLY be at fault, we were. Period.

 

I am not ever going to START about traffic court...

Edited September 21, 2013 by Kalenath

[Niryco]

My gauge is all the silliness that people here and elsewhere spout when they don't have all the information and either assume they do or don't care. They make suppositions and insist those are reality without bothering to check on the actual reality. Maybe YOU could handle the truth. Sad to say, most people on these forums could NOT.

 

Most people (not JUST on the internet, but a good sample there)  don't WANT the truth. They want platitudes. They want their comfortable lives uninterrupted. They want LIES if the lies are comfortable.

 

As for the people who want total transparency?

 

You want to know all the ins and outs of a small business? EVERY SINGLE aspect. Budget, payroll, personnel time on task, personnel time off off task, website maintenance, record keeping, staff memos... etc, etc, etc?

 

Do YOU have time to keep up with all of that? I don't.

 

 

 

A lawyer or judge's answer. Speaking as a former paramedic? I have to disagree. We were all guilty until proven innocent. And sometimes guilty even then.

I would suggest you read Death of a salesman to see how flawed many used to live in such a mentality and that still lives on now. I agree with you whole-heartedly, most don't want to know what truly is the problem and make hyperbolic situations to justify their warped logic, i didn't think the community reached this stage this fast, but the fact that it did just made me want to cry now.

[Gryphticon]

It's a conspiracy.

[TisEric]

My gauge is all the silliness that people here and elsewhere spout when they don't have all the information and either assume they do or don't care. They make suppositions and insist those are reality without bothering to check on the actual reality. Maybe YOU could handle the truth. Sad to say, most people on these forums could NOT.

 

Most people (not JUST on the internet, but a good sample there)  don't WANT the truth. They want platitudes. They want their comfortable lives uninterrupted. They want LIES if the lies are comfortable.

 

As for the people who want total transparency?

 

You want to know all the ins and outs of a small business? EVERY SINGLE aspect. Budget, payroll, personnel time on task, personnel time off off task, website maintenance, record keeping, staff memos... etc, etc, etc?

 

Do YOU have time to keep up with all of that? I don't.

 

 

 

A lawyer or judge's answer. Speaking as a former paramedic? I have to disagree. We were all guilty until proven innocent. And sometimes guilty even then.

 

If we could EVER POSSIBLY be at fault, we were. Period.

 

ok sure  , some people go to extremes very easily .

Using blanket statements like that tho is not the way i would go with.

most people probably are unaware of anything happening on the forums right now, those who are must have some form of investment they deem is worthy to defend.

 

total transparency with things that affect us an consumers and players, yes.

behind the scenes stuff regarding the company is of no business of ours.

 

but know that loot tables will change because x and y happened.

affects my decision on whether or not i want to continue supporting the game.

[Niryco]

It's a conspiracy.

What you said is a conspiracy

[Kalenath]

What you said is a conspiracy

 

It's a conspiracy that the conspiracy has a conspiracy to conspire with conspirators.

[Azure_Kytia]

But if DE were to revamp everything, what would the cost be? I agree that they are very basic mechanics but they all seem to be at their limits and when DE revamps on them, the forum community in general(not all) says it is malice when it is not. DE has been constantly placing in ambitious fixes but i see many players don't see it that way, they see DE making the game harder and longer so to benefit their profit making of what business generalized with as corrupt greedy people. This is a view i do not agree too as it is an uninformed generalization of DE, but at the rate the community is progressing it is total annihilation since most efforts are hardly recognized.

 

So do you think the game is in a need of a major overhaul, or is it going to be a constant player disagreeing with mechanics fixes which the community, they themselves asked for in the first place (which i made a post before trying to explain how the community is mostly having a war against themselves and they just direct their hate towards DE when they don't like a solution provided)

 

The only mechanic I've seen DE actively change is Stamina. That is certainly a precedent to gauge against the maturity of the community, however a lot of these mechanics aren't being "exploited" in order to achieve some advantage. They're generally universally annoying and obstructive. The costs incurred by extra time spent paying attention to detail would likely be offset by the paying customers that actually stick around for ever so slightly longer. Lack of Content isn't the only burnout cause here.

 

And no, I don't expect the Art team and the other content dedicated groups to stop what they're doing and do something they may or may not have any experience in. All I expect is that they try and find a balance between touching up the game and adding new content/patching said new content. We see a lot more patches that fix one or two things added the last update than we do fixes to issues that have been rampant since the beginning of the game.

 

I think DE needs to take a step back, and see what mechanics they actually feel they want and need inside the game, instead of half implementing something, then forgetting about it and moving on. That's my opinion, and I am perfectly aware that others have their own different ones. I'm also okay with that. This is a forum. 

[Niryco]

The only mechanic I've seen DE actively change is Stamina. That is certainly a precedent to gauge against the maturity of the community, however a lot of these mechanics aren't being "exploited" in order to achieve some advantage. They're generally universally annoying and obstructive. The costs incurred by extra time spent paying attention to detail would likely be offset by the paying customers that actually stick around for ever so slightly longer. Lack of Content isn't the only burnout cause here.

 

And no, I don't expect the Art team and the other content dedicated groups to stop what they're doing and do something they may or may not have any experience in. All I expect is that they try and find a balance between touching up the game and adding new content/patching said new content. We see a lot more patches that fix one or two things added the last update than we do fixes to issues that have been rampant since the beginning of the game.

 

I think DE needs to take a step back, and see what mechanics they actually feel they want and need inside the game, instead of half implementing something, then forgetting about it and moving on. That's my opinion, and I am perfectly aware that others have their own different ones. I'm also okay with that. This is a forum. 

Agreed. However the most i can say DE tries to make a simplified game as best they can so that everyone can enjoy it though. However the over-simplification backfired i guess.

 

It's a conspiracy that the conspiracy has a conspiracy to conspire with conspirators.

Indeed, but you are trying to conspire this conspiracy to one that is mind numbing =P

Edited September 21, 2013 by Jacate

[Azure_Kytia]

Nah, it's nothing about over-simplification, they're just extending their reach into different areas, then moving on before finishing up there. For the most part, DE is making a great game.

[arche]

First, who said the DE only do the fixes when the data for the drop table comes out? Prove? If none of you have it. Please, stop spreading false informantion. Btw and fyi. When the first void came out, latron prime reciever was <1% as well. They fixed it even without a dataminer digging out information. Just because the fix arrive after the drop table was out that does not mean that they did the fix because they were found out.

Edited September 21, 2013 by arche

[Niryco]

First, who said the DE only do the fixes when the data for the drop table comes out? Prove? If none of you have it. Please, stop spreading false informantion.

When datamining occured, players pushed for changes, this led to DE apologizing, even in the past when the values were odd they admitted to it and changed it thereafter even the drop table 2.0 was made in view of all this to reduce the amount of places to get loot so that it is easier to acquire them.

 

The other time they changed was during update 8.0++ when they released void and some keys as well as materials were having obscenely low drop rates which was changed after the community datamined the numbers.

 

Actually Pwntrn gets all the datamine values out on the day the patch is released, that is why everyone refers to him. However he slowed down now.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Jacate

[Daspic]

What is truly sad is that all this occurred because some people didnt get drops fast enough. Say whatever you want, that is ultimately what it boils down to which is laughable.

[Niryco]

What is truly sad is that all this occurred because some people didnt get drops fast enough. Say whatever you want, that is ultimately what it boils down to which is laughable.

Like i said, the community in general is causing their own anguish a number of times and if nothing is done about it, we probably won't ever move on and not look at the bigger picture.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Jacate

[arche]

Still, back to my orginial arguement. Doesnt meana that a change happens after something means that the change was due to that something. This is sll your own assumtion. Its a trick that your playing on yourself becauae your not providing with a reason. You made an assumtion without concrete proofs, just what is happening around you. That is a self satisfaction. You came up with a reason youself so you can further blame on ones mistake so that they can change their opinion or fix something. However, im not right too, because im doing the same now.