some ember ideas

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

As she currently is , its not easy to survive or really scale to situations indefinitely like some frames

being the fire elemental frame she should have more to her kit and internal synergies

lets discuss some concepts of her kit

heat meter : a theoretical meter gauge derived to scale her heat damage off absorbed damages

passive:

her current passive is useful with selfdamage , but as it is maybe a heat consumption, enemies damaged by her heat powers regain her some hp or energy ?

Fireball

its limited in power damage & mechanics, currently allows for 1 fireball (meh damage) that can be quick cast or charged to throw a Nightwatch Napalm styled fireball

this is very limited and is rarely used

some thoughts would be to change the 1 to have guaranteed heat proc and or deal an aoe cc on the charged throw, also increase flight speed/charge of the projectile , maybe even make it spread on surfaces leaving a flame area similar to nezha, but simply make it able to quickly shoot multiple fireballs that detonate small heat aoes to a huge one that does more would be sufficient i think

another idea would make it have synergy in her 4 mode , so it reduces cost and or maybe increases the damage or explosion radius . 

heat meter idea: when draining in hold it applies a larger area of heat splash possibly 

it could even be replaced with something else power wise ,as it stands its not worth energy to cast it to even provide support in some form

Accelerant

this is probably the most used power I personally use in the kit , the original setup applied armor to her and was a handy survival power, now you have to spam cast to cc/ apply damage buff (or with augment cast speed and heat damage) 

a suggestion is we could return the armor addition and scale it passed on the total armor/health/shield of enemies it effects when cast 

or perhaps make it so it strips armor or applies armor strip per heat applied to target affected 

could even again have it combo these while under condition of WOF is active , or perhaps boost the stats of this power

maybe have it link to heat meter and disperse a multiplier in damage based on drained heat 

Fire Blast

wasted potential on this one , it does a "ring of fire" that floats below user eye line and if shot through it applies heat 

so its implementation is not very effective , it does throw heat but overall its more effective to use WOF

perhaps then make it so when casting it throws a pillar of fire around ember, enemies projectiles are consumed (provides defensive) and consumed projectiles damage is applied to a "heat" counter

this still applies same effects but then grants scaling to her damage based on situation , this then gives her defense when she needs it and cc combo'd

World On Fire

the problem child 

ive thought about this power a lot, as ive used it in many of its incarnations

the problem is range to kill rate and how it works

it could remain as it was and become a sort of heat meter scaled power, or perhaps make it more of a pulse from ember out , or a constant stream of heat waves , not usre, but its current implementation is not effective at being a damage frame as de stated was her purpose 

if heat waves it could apply heat damage based off draining a percent of heat gauge to deal that damage in a 360 pulse of heat , that is toggled on to constantly to emit firei in waves (this could drain energy fast if not watched and synergies with her other powers ) maybe scale its damage if heat is applied onto a target, could even make it so duration like trinity effects pulse rate 

one concept to be apply on hit a area effect to target of heat that on death, uses them to explode and release more heat damage 

 

 

dunno these are just a collection of thoughts on the issue at hand, i do enjoy ember and have used her for years as a dedicated loadout frame , but her buff/nerfs have left her smoldering on the side a lot for me

if you have any constructive ideas or possible ideas that could be mixed or tweaked  , please post, thanks

Edited September 10, 2019 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[Blexander]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

heat meter : a theoretical meter gauge derived to scale her heat damage off absorbed damages

Filling up a heat meter by taking damage from external sources doesn't look too good on paper. What I mean is, you don't heat up by absorbing energy, since fire is an exothermic reaction. Then again, "feeding the flame" could work, but it doesn't fit her theme to absorb energy from other elements. Maybe have her damage scale up based on enemies under Heat procs, like siphoning heat off of them.

11 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Fireball

its limited in power damage & mechanics, currently allows for 1 fireball (meh damage) that can be quick cast or charged to throw a Nightwatch Napalm styled fireball

this is very limited and is rarely used

some thoughts would be to change the 1 to have guaranteed heat proc and or deal an aoe cc on the charged throw, also increase flight speed/charge of the projectile , maybe even make it spread on surfaces leaving a flame area similar to nezha, but simply make it able to quickly shoot multiple fireballs that detonate small heat aoes to a huge one that does more would be sufficient i think

another idea would make it have synergy in her 4 mode , so it reduces cost and or maybe increases the damage or explosion radius . 

heat meter idea: when draining in hold it applies a larger area of heat splash possibly 

it could even be replaced with something else power wise ,as it stands its not worth energy to cast it to even provide support in some form

Having it spawn a Nezha, or Oberon-esque, AoE after charging is a good idea. It gives more incentive to actually charge it. You could also have it be a instant-cast, rather than a projectile, skill. It all depends on the rest of her kit and it's synergy.

14 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Accelerant

this is probably the most used power I personally use in the kit , the original setup applied armor to her and was a handy survival power, now you have to spam cast to cc/ apply damage buff (or with augment cast speed and heat damage) 

a suggestion is we could return the armor addition and scale it passed on the total armor/health/shield of enemies it effects when cast 

or perhaps make it so it strips armor or applies armor strip per heat applied to target affected 

could even again have it combo these while under condition of WOF is active , or perhaps boost the stats of this power

maybe have it link to heat meter and disperse a multiplier in damage based on drained heat 

Giving Ember armor isn't a good idea, since she has so little of it to begin with. Even if it's additive armor, she'll need to pump up her HP to get the full use of it's DR. Stripping armor is always good, but putting such an important effect on an already great ability makes it a bit unbalanced.

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Fire Blast

wasted potential on this one , it does a "ring of fire" that floats below user eye line and if shot through it applies heat 

so its implementation is not very effective , it does throw heat but overall its more effective to use WOF

perhaps then make it so when casting it throws a pillar of fire around ember, enemies projectiles are consumed (provides defensive) and consumed projectiles damage is applied to a "heat" counter

this still applies same effects but then grants scaling to her damage based on situation , this then gives her defense when she needs it and cc combo'd

As good as DR is, and as much as Ember needs it (among other things), I don't think it's wise to tie a damage buff to it, especially if you need to absorb bullets to increase the buff. This, coupled with your proposal for Accelarant, shift her playstyle and "description" to more of a tanky/defensive frame, rather than a "glass-cannon" DPS. It's not bad giving her a concrete role, but it's a noticeable identity shift.

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

the problem child 

ive thought about this power a lot, as ive used it in many of its incarnations

the problem is range to kill rate and how it works

it could remain as it was and become a sort of heat meter scaled power, or perhaps make it more of a pulse from ember out , or a constant stream of heat waves , not usre, but its current implementation is not effective at being a damage frame as de stated was her purpose 

if heat waves it could apply heat damage based off draining a percent of heat gauge to deal that damage in a 360 pulse of heat , that is toggled on to constantly to emit firei in waves (this could drain energy fast if not watched and synergies with her other powers ) maybe scale its damage if heat is applied onto a target, could even make it so duration like trinity effects pulse rate 

one concept to be apply on hit a area effect to target of heat that on death, uses them to explode and release more heat damage 

I'd like to avoid having a toggle skill to replace WoF, even though the "waves of fire" idea sounds very good, since it fixes the issue people had with her (which lead to her getting nerfed into the ground) and that's "line of sight". Perhaps it could drain the entire of the heat gauge for massive damage by charging it, or something similar.

As for the "explode on death" proposal, it's interesting to say the least. A lot of factors make or break it, depending on how the kit functions and the explosion's effects/damage/range, it could work better as a passive, but for that to come into play, we have to get into numbers and scaling.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

Filling up a heat meter by taking damage from external sources doesn't look too good on paper. What I mean is, you don't heat up by absorbing energy, since fire is an exothermic reaction. Then again, "feeding the flame" could work, but it doesn't fit her theme to absorb energy from other elements. Maybe have her damage scale up based on enemies under Heat procs, like siphoning heat off of them.

now my thought was on energy transfer via the heat breaking the damage into energy and converting this for fuel , given all matter is energy and converting matter to a base energy state for fuel was the concept. an all consuming flame was more or less the idea . though the ehat up idea of damage dealt of heat scales the heat damage could work nice, thats kinda how saryn works to a degree and would translate well if it given speciifc limits maybe?  

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

Having it spawn a Nezha, or Oberon-esque, AoE after charging is a good idea. It gives more incentive to actually charge it. You could also have it be a instant-cast, rather than a projectile, skill. It all depends on the rest of her kit and it's synergy.

this is very true , i still personally like the idea of chucking a fireball though 

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

Giving Ember armor isn't a good idea, since she has so little of it to begin with. Even if it's additive armor, she'll need to pump up her HP to get the full use of it's DR. Stripping armor is always good, but putting such an important effect on an already great ability makes it a bit unbalanced.

true , i do miss the armor buf though i found it useful in combat, since then she feels to squishy in some regards but I agree it may be overstacking effects, we could throw armor stripping onto her 3rd and make it an expanding ring that travels slowly and dissipates, what do you think? eliminates def adds back base heat cc and armor removal to help her work , maybe enhance damage dealt or guarantee heat procs or something 

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

As good as DR is, and as much as Ember needs it (among other things), I don't think it's wise to tie a damage buff to it, especially if you need to absorb bullets to increase the buff. This, coupled with your proposal for Accelarant, shift her playstyle and "description" to more of a tanky/defensive frame, rather than a "glass-cannon" DPS. It's not bad giving her a concrete role, but it's a noticeable identity shift.

good points, i liked the idea of a consuming flame , maybe rather then negating damage it could spread heat proc guaranteed and like you suggested via heat up the damages intensity to provide a guaranteed scale factor ? could even have it so multiple heat procs can stack within the rings area to make it more damaging and scale within a zone of effect 

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

I'd like to avoid having a toggle skill to replace WoF, even though the "waves of fire" idea sounds very good, since it fixes the issue people had with her (which lead to her getting nerfed into the ground) and that's "line of sight". Perhaps it could drain the entire of the heat gauge for massive damage by charging it, or something similar.

As for the "explode on death" proposal, it's interesting to say the least. A lot of factors make or break it, depending on how the kit functions and the explosion's effects/damage/range, it could work better as a passive, but for that to come into play, we have to get into numbers and scaling.

yes i thought the action of her being mobile and emitting heat waves would fixe her issues ,  it dosnt have to be a toggle but duration based and could pull from the heat gauge or even affect as more heat procs on a target multiplies its damage to enemy units  

the explode on death concept on reflection could be thrown to her 3 making it so enemies afflicted by the rings heat guarantee a heat aoe detonation on death perhaps unsure.

heck that could be a passive that the gauges like some are a side passive while main passive be enemies killed by heat explode into fire aoes maybe?