Critical Hits Are Not Healthy For This Game

[ClaymoreNo47]

Crit's are not healthy for this game for several reasons. These reasons are not inherent in a crit system but how this game presents the system. 

 

1) This game is trying to sell you critical hits as a universal system when its far from it. Lets examine what i mean. To go a crit build on any weapon, you have to sacrifice 2 slots for the crit damage and crit chance. So what ends up happening is only weapons with amazing base crit chances can realistically use a crit mod. The crit system is not a universal one. The crit mods are basically a item specific mod much like the Paris Thunderbolt being sold as a core and universal system. The crit mods might as well say adds % base damage to these specific weapons only because that's what it is.

 

Other video games that use the crit system its just given and each weapon has a unique final value that occasionally you crit for absurd amounts of damage for fun and good times. But when you make a crit a spec-able option, you have to really fine tune and balance to make an acceptable system. 

 

 

2) Sniper rifles with 20% base crit is the most annoying thing ever. It has annoyed me since the beginning of time and will continue to annoying me til this game dies of old age. After fully modded if a sniper crits it does about 5x to 6x damage as appose to not crit'ing. Nothing is more annoying than only crit'ing half the time for 2-3 thousand damage and the other half for 500. Especially when you meticulously go for head shots with a bow. 

 

 

In conclusion the crit system is not really a system because it is not universal. It might as well be a random mod that gives alot of base damage affected by elemental mods for only a specific random set of weapons for no apparent mechanical or game design reason. Its one perspective to design a character in a game to take advantage of crits and another to just make a random crit system that makes no sense. 

[Inberun]

Critical Hit should be changed into headshot like in Borderlands. You score a critical when you hit an enemy weakpoints. Right now critical hit is just free damage buff

[ClaymoreNo47]

thats what i mean. Other games make it a universal system. Your example borderlands two. In another example league of legends. Its universal even though not everyone gets crit is because you spec into it with equal opportunity not restricted and determined on how the character was built. The weapons themselves in warframe already tell you if you should build crit or not. Its not an option when it comes to more damage or less damage. The higher dps build wins. 

[Mosychuk]

The thesis here im getting is that crit is bad for warframe because it doesn't work to your, or some other game's standard.... if there's nothing else to it, is there even a point here?

[ClaymoreNo47]

i would be delighted to hear "crits are good for warframe because....." counter thesis. unless your position is you also agree crits are bad but my two supporting arguments are bad.

[Spearfish]

1. Soma, and the rage for fully automatic bullet hoses. You also get multishot which increases your chances (along with free damage).

 

2. This

 

Critical Hit should be changed into headshot like in Borderlands. You score a critical when you hit an enemy weakpoints. Right now critical hit is just free damage buff

 

But I kinda agree with you OP.. I never used crit builds until I got the Soma and boy, my eyes were opened. I usually just stack elemental damage (crit rates weren't high). Plus +crit chance mods only added % of the base %, which meant you weren't gonna crit all the time anyway ( 60% to a 10% base is 16% total). Which reduced the desirt to put +crit damage when you'd rarely get to crit. But put in a beast like Soma..

 

On the flip side, crits are good for warframe because lvl 100+ heavies become cake. =)

Edited October 25, 2013 by Spearfish

[Mosychuk]

The problem isn't so much that crits are bad, but that as level increases the need for dps increases, and as a friend put it as their difficulty increases parabolically, our dps increases linearly... so as a crutch for poor ele loadout scaling, we need the crit to produce necessary dps.

[ClaymoreNo47]

i never said remove crits. i said this game is handling it poorly. The second sentence for my two part thesis is "these reasons are not inherent in a crit system but how this game presents the system. "

 

so essentially the thesis is crits the way this game is presenting them is not healthy for this game.... not crits are an inherently bad statistics and remove crits. I gave several games were crits are a welcome edition that add positive things. 

 

 

TL:DR its a balance crits and make it a universal system not for weapons with 30% base crit chance. I still dont understand your position because theres only 3 possible positions. Crits currently are bad...crits currently are good and Crits currently are needed to deal with the symptoms of other problems but instead of fix. Your just basically saying stop complaining for the sake of complaining and play.  

Edited October 25, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[ASH_PRIME]

You are correct sir!   the current crit 'system' behaves more like elemental damage than an actual 'critical chance/damage' system

and has lead to the most OP and despised of all weapons... that phkn SOMA

 

[Relkin]

Your statement regarding other games having it just be a nice little something extra is actually wrong.  A lot of games have rogue builds which rely on crits for DPS.  

 

You haven't really said why it's bad either - all you've said is that you think other games do it different and that you are annoyed that your sniper doesn't crit 100% of the time?  The free damage thing is ditto with pressure point, serration, elemental mods (which have 2ndary effects so does that make them worse?) - I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at.  Are you saying that crit dmg should be rolled up into base weapon damage?  That would just make weapons even more powerful.

[ClaymoreNo47]

Your statement regarding other games having it just be a nice little something extra is actually wrong.  A lot of games have rogue builds which rely on crits for DPS.  

 

You haven't really said why it's bad either - all you've said is that you think other games do it different and that you are annoyed that your sniper doesn't crit 100% of the time?  The free damage thing is ditto with pressure point, serration, elemental mods (which have 2ndary effects so does that make them worse?) - I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at.  Are you saying that crit dmg should be rolled up into base weapon damage?  That would just make weapons even more powerful.

Ok ill try a different approach. What i'm saying is there is no crit system. Crits only matter for weapons with 30% base crit and above. My conclusion says fix this please because the crit mods might as well be Soma exclusive. And exclusivity is not a system while crits are being sold as a core system in this game. 

 

 

last sentence of my conclusion states: "Its one perspective to design a character in a game to take advantage of crits and another to just make a random crit system that makes no sense. " extrapolate what it means to your best ability. It basically means a character being designed around crits doesn't validate a bad crit system because the character is unique and not being sold as a system. In that situation it's not expected that other characters in the game have crits because its not a core system and that specific character merely can crit because he/she was specifically designed around it. Because there are several crit specific mods and all weapons have some form of crit value, it's not being sold as a gun specific element but a core system that should matter but instead only matters to a select few weapons which all have one thing in common 20% + base crit chance.

Edited October 27, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[FableTale]

Based on the title, I thought critical hits would give me diabetes or something

[Ohmlink]

Yes I agree that the way they handle crits in this game is flawed. Yes it needs changes, however making every hit on a weak point of the enemy does not help the balance.

 

All that would do is make every gun a crit weapon and everyone would just stack crit damage. It wouldn't change anything Weapons with hire crit damage would still reign supreme over a basic weapon. Its ok that some weapons have lousy crit chance they are intended to be straight up DPS. The Soma for as how much people hate it, is the first real crit dependent weapon in the game that does it consistent enough for it to be viable well into the late game.

 

Slower firing weapons are crap due to the fact that "normal" non crit weapons have to stack elemental damage to do anything worth while. Crit get the bonus damage while being able to benefit from elemental mods. They need to increase the base critical on most weapons in the game, especially those that are slower firing and rely on "burst" damage. Right now the roles are switched. The Soma behaves like a "normal" dps cannon that has a high rate of fire, but due to its stupid high crit rate it gets the best of both worlds. Snipers have too low a crit rate to make real use of the mods that should be used on them.

 

TLDR: Slower firing weapons need a higher crit rate to make up for the fact they rely on "burst" damage to keep up with the likes of faster firing weapons. The Soma is an outlier that needs to be balanced.

[TwiceDead]

Don't touch my critical hits. 

I enjoy watching 5-15k numbers on my Lanka. 

 

It's all about cookie-cutting and numbers... Does it need any other reason? Had this been a PvP oriented game I could see how it breaks things. . . But a lot in the game is already broken balance-wise to begin with so, huh?

[Revel72]

Yeah... Critical hit mods shall be buried soon. But please do not remove Critical hit damage mods. They are still dear to me and I love head shotting with my Lex.

[TwiceDead]

Yeah... Critical hit mods shall be buried soon. But please do not remove Critical hit damage mods. They are still dear to me and I love head shotting with my Lex.

Gotta remember to try the Lex again. Haven't used it since early-game. 

[lautalocos]

make it so that crits are damage bonuses on weakspots. look at planetside 2. a machinegun doesn´t do a lot of damage on a headshot, but a sniper rifle does.

 

that way, crits are something you work for, not something you are dependant off. and weapons like the soma are still powerfull, and it will deserve to be a rank 6 weapon, hard to use, but very, very rewarding.

[Ohmlink]

As far as I know Planetside uses a multiplier on head shots 2x i believe and its flat across all weapons. Which leads to the bolt action snipers not killing on headshots at longer ranges if said target is rocking nanoweave armor. Thats a different thread and game altogether.

 

Changing so everything is a crit when i shoot grineer in the head won't help balance the disparity of damage output between a braton vs a burston.