Why Not Give Each Side Their Weapons.

[notionphil]

In future events, using a setup like proposed here might be a good idea.

 

Changing this event is a terrible idea.  As a simple rule, you should not change the rules or rewards structure of an event in progress - there's always someone out there who played by the rules and gets screwed by the rule change.  While you guys may not want to hear it, the fact is that screwing someone who did play by the rules for the sake of those who dislike the rules is completely unacceptable.

 

Worse, a rules change at this point will totally undermine future events.  Why even pay attention to the rules when DE will change them if enough people complain? 

 

It's a terrible idea, and it's bad for the future of the game.

 

I'm sorry you guys aren't happy about the reward you're getting, but you knew from the get go that this was a possible result.  You don't deserve to dictate your rewards based on what you feel is appropriate any more then everybody else.  Were I to decide that I've 'earned' a million forma for my efforts, it would be laughable - the rules of the event were clear that wasn't going to happen.   Same thing for you guys. 

 

Take heart, the Detron will become available later.  And then you'll have two guns instead of one.

 

While I agree that changing the rewards mid-stream will generally screw someone who played by the rules over, who would that be in this case?

 

A Grineer supporter who really wanted the Brakk BP instead of the complete gun?

 

I can't think of a possible person who would prefer the Brakk BP over a potato'd Brakk w a slot. So everyone else would either rather have the Detron BP, or the potato'd Brakk.

 

Many were complaining about the reward structure from the second it was posted - regardless of which side they supported or who they thought would win. It's just a poor design decision to tie personal rewards (for a very grindy, time consuming task) to a gamewide conflict that individuals cannot control.

 

It makes players feel as if their 8-10hr time commitment to the event has been rewarded with a slap in the face. Not a good gift for your most dedicated supporters.

[TwiceDead]

Many were complaining about the reward structure from the second it was posted - regardless of which side they supported or who they thought would win. It's just a poor design decision to tie personal rewards (for a very grindy, time consuming task) to a gamewide conflict that individuals cannot control.

 

It makes players feel as if their 8-10hr time commitment to the event has been rewarded with a slap in the face. Not a good gift for your most dedicated supporters.

 

This is my biggest problem with this event. DE is knowingly punishing their playerbase for putting time and dedication into their game, with a band-aid they didn't even ask for should their side lose. 

 

Poor design indeed... 

[Phatose]

While I agree that changing the rewards mid-stream will generally screw someone who played by the rules over, who would that be in this case?

 

A Grineer supporter who really wanted the Brakk BP instead of the complete gun?

 

I can't think of a possible person who would prefer the Brakk BP over a potato'd Brakk w a slot. So everyone else would either rather have the Detron BP, or the potato'd Brakk.

 

Many were complaining about the reward structure from the second it was posted - regardless of which side they supported or who they thought would win. It's just a poor design decision to tie personal rewards (for a very grindy, time consuming task) to a gamewide conflict that individuals cannot control.

 

It makes players feel as if their 8-10hr time commitment to the event has been rewarded with a slap in the face. Not a good gift for your most dedicated supporters.

 

Well, the most obvious candidate is someone who favored the Detron, but seeing that the total community response would determine their reward, not their own efforts, based their missions on the difficulty of completing the goal.

 

Basically, anyone who read the announcement and realized it was community goal, not a personal goal, and weighted their preference accordingly is getting screwed.  Anyone who would've preferred an unpotatoed Detron without a slot over a potatoed Brakk with slot, but wasn't going to sacrifice a slot and potato when their own actions wouldn't change it.  Those people made a strategically sound move, and you guys didn't.  I don't think we should ever screw someone over for making the smart move.

 

And slap in the face?  Doesn't that seems a little overly dramatic?  We're talking about receiving a gun with unknown stats and unknown function that doesn't have the exact shape they wanted.  For all the uproar, the practical difference between the two is a skin. 

[NICKTHECHAMP11]

By this point I doubt this will happen, but I think this would've been the way to go.

[notionphil]

Well, the most obvious candidate is someone who favored the Detron, but seeing that the total community response would determine their reward, not their own efforts, based their missions on the difficulty of completing the goal.

 

Basically, anyone who read the announcement and realized it was community goal, not a personal goal, and weighted their preference accordingly is getting screwed.  Anyone who would've preferred an unpotatoed Detron without a slot over a potatoed Brakk with slot, but wasn't going to sacrifice a slot and potato when their own actions wouldn't change it.  Those people made a strategically sound move, and you guys didn't.  I don't think we should ever screw someone over for making the smart move.

 

And slap in the face?  Doesn't that seems a little overly dramatic?  We're talking about receiving a gun with unknown stats and unknown function that doesn't have the exact shape they wanted.  For all the uproar, the practical difference between the two is a skin. 

 

"You guys didn't"?

 

I am a Grinner Supporter for lore reasons, and now, pragmatic reasons. However, I can see how skewed the rewards are. This is not an 'us-vs-them' it's a case of poor design and should be rectified.

 

If someone ran the Grinner missions for the potatoed Brakk, they have chosen their side. Your potatoe'd Brakk is not a lesser reward just bc another group gets a Detron as a reward. Getting screwed is when you thought you'd get X and instead you get Y. As has been stated by the "stop whining and play" group in this thread frequently - if you wanted the Detron, go play more corpus missions.

 

The difference btw the guns could literally be ONLY a skin and that would be fine. If you ran 100 missions for Corpus in the face of certain failure, you obviously are doing it for more than unknown stats on a gun. You are doing it for lore, style, clan etc and bc you want to support them. A corpus skin of a lato would probably be enough for many of the people on this thread.

 

Some people are motivated by more than just "making the smart move".

 

And yes; spending 8-10h supporting the Yankees, and being given a Red Sox headband for your time is slap in the face. I can't even imagine how anyone thought that was a good idea.

[Phatose]

I'm sorry, but I simply disagree.  Getting screwed is making decisions based on the rules, then having those rules changed.  Utterly unacceptable.  It's not a matter of how any particular person feels about the suitability of the awards - it's that we were told, in no uncertain terms, what criteria the awards would be given on, and it's totally unacceptable to change that midway through the game.

 

And yes, clearly some people are motivated by more then making the smart move.  However, it is not acceptable to sacrifice those who did in favor of those who did not, and it's never acceptable to change the rules when the game is in motion.

 

The fact of the matter is that adding on a reward for activities which were clearly stated to not be beneficial midway through the event is unfair.  It's like changing the rules of a baseball game in the 5th inning so that each team gets 1 point for every 3 pitches they swung on, hit or miss.  It's just bad form.

 

The proper way to deal with this is to provide another opportunity to obtain the Detron later on.  Which is probably what will happen anyway.  These threads and demand have a rather unpleasant undertone though.  They aren't just asking for the weapon - if that was the case, they'd be asking for everybody to get the BP.  They're asking to receive the weapon, and deny it to specific people who have not been told they'd be a special case denied it.

[rksk16it]

...

And slap in the face?  Doesn't that seems a little overly dramatic?  We're talking about receiving a gun with unknown stats and unknown function that doesn't have the exact shape they wanted.  For all the uproar, the practical difference between the two is a skin. 

 

Those players who can easily buy slots/potatoes, skin is the only thing that mattered in the rewards. For practical reasons of not going over the top with powercreep, especially when there is already an uproar over Soma and Galatine, DE most likely wont create those event reward pistols better than this pistol :

 

 

So yea, skin is all that mattered to some (including me). If I need sheer power, I am gonna use the pistol I shown in image above.

[EelPlus]

I still think these rewards really lack any form of "weight" to them.  In fact, the only reward with any weight is the badge.  The badge is the only thing that is truly influenced by my own personal choice (since it is not a community goal).  Furthermore, by giving all players with 100 combined matches the winning side's weapon, players have no incentive to diversify.  By giving me weapon A, with weapon B stated to be going "into the vault" for a later date, it doesn't ultimately matter which side gets supported (a potato and slot can be bought with cash).

 

...except for the badge (which cannot be bought with cash).  The reward system is really kind of shooting itself in the foot.

[Phatose]

OK, serious question.  How much campaigning and organizing did any of you do on behalf of the corpus?  Running squads, supporting newbies, convincing freelancers to support your side?  Any at all?

[notionphil]

I'm sorry, but I simply disagree.  Getting screwed is making decisions based on the rules, then having those rules changed.  Utterly unacceptable.  It's not a matter of how any particular person feels about the suitability of the awards - it's that we were told, in no uncertain terms, what criteria the awards would be given on, and it's totally unacceptable to change that midway through the game.

 

And yes, clearly some people are motivated by more then making the smart move.  However, it is not acceptable to sacrifice those who did in favor of those who did not, and it's never acceptable to change the rules when the game is in motion.

 

The fact of the matter is that adding on a reward for activities which were clearly stated to not be beneficial midway through the event is unfair.  It's like changing the rules of a baseball game in the 5th inning so that each team gets 1 point for every 3 pitches they swung on, hit or miss.  It's just bad form.

 

The proper way to deal with this is to provide another opportunity to obtain the Detron later on.  Which is probably what will happen anyway.  These threads and demand have a rather unpleasant undertone though.  They aren't just asking for the weapon - if that was the case, they'd be asking for everybody to get the BP.  They're asking to receive the weapon, and deny it to specific people who have not been told they'd be a special case denied it.

 

My suggestion at this point in time would be for DE to simply allow everyone who ran 100 missions to choose their reward; winning side's gun potatoed + a slot, or the loser's side BP.

 

DE's mistake was essentially giving the illusion of choice to players, so they should resolve it by giving real choice.

[Phatose]

My suggestion at this point in time would be for DE to simply allow everyone who ran 100 missions to choose their reward; winning side's gun potatoed + a slot, or the loser's side BP.

 

DE's mistake was essentially giving the illusion of choice to players, so they should resolve it by giving real choice.

 

I don't think they ever gave an illusion of choice.  I think they presented players with what was functionally an election, and they made that clear from the get go.  The fact that some players decided their one vote should be enough and ignored the obvious political nature does not make it a non-choice.

[rksk16it]

OK, serious question.  How much campaigning and organizing did any of you do on behalf of the corpus?  Running squads, supporting newbies, convincing freelancers to support your side?  Any at all?

 

I did all of that almost as much as I did in previous events regarding how to play those events or supporting newbies.... that is... none. Why should I do "campaigning" to get my reward in a game ? Am I contesting an election or what. And if it really is an election, then its as good as an election where one party blatantly bribes the voters, while others are just hoping for some wonder to happen all of a sudden. Yea putting potato vs credits as a reward for first mission practically set the stage.

[rksk16it]

I don't think they ever gave an illusion of choice.  I think they presented players with what was functionally an election, and they made that clear from the get go.  The fact that some players decided their one vote should be enough and ignored the obvious political nature does not make it a non-choice.

 

A very biased, unfair election I might add.

[notionphil]

I don't think they ever gave an illusion of choice.  I think they presented players with what was functionally an election, and they made that clear from the get go.  The fact that some players decided their one vote should be enough and ignored the obvious political nature does not make it a non-choice.

 

The illusion was that both sides had an chance at victory. In reality, we can see that this was far from the case.

 

Making a 'choice' clear and then rigging the results is an illusion.

[Phatose]

I did all of that almost as much as I did in previous events regarding how to play those events or supporting newbies.... that is... none. Why should I do "campaigning" to get my reward in a game ? Am I contesting an election or what. And if it really is an election, then its as good as an election where one party blatantly bribes the voters, while others are just hoping for some wonder to happen all of a sudden. Yea putting potato vs credits as a reward for first mission practically set the stage.

 

Right.  You did nothing.  And yeah, exactly, you were contesting an election - what did you think "winner" meant?  Was there something in the announcement that lead you to believe this was something other then a community decided event?

 

A very biased, unfair election I might add.

 

Well, yeah.  The corpus started out with the entire system under their control.  Like, 100%.  That's pretty biased.

[rksk16it]

 

Right.  You did nothing.  And yeah, exactly, you were contesting an election - what did you think "winner" meant?  Was there something in the announcement that lead you to believe this was something other then a community decided event?

 

You really think its "community" decided ? Are you that ignorant or what ? Its DE decided. Rewards in the first few mission decided it, not the community. Atleast try to make more sense.

 

 

Well, yeah.  The corpus started out with the entire system under their control.  Like, 100%.  That's pretty biased.

 

Yeap, just like everytime before elections start, there is a current ruling party. Or maybe is it different where you live ? Maybe in your country, elections take place only when there is no existing government and the social order is in complete chaos.

[jpvi1207]

id say we should all send messages to rebecca implying they reward detron to corpus supporters and the crap on a stick to grineer supporters

[Phatose]

You really think its "community" decided ? Are you that ignorant or what ? Its DE decided. Rewards in the first few mission decided it, not the community. Atleast try to make more sense.

 

 

 

Yeap, just like everytime before elections start, there is a current ruling party. Or maybe is it different where you live ? Maybe in your country, elections take place only when there is no existing government and the social order is in complete chaos.

 

Yes, I do think it's community decided.  I'm sorry you don't like that so much of the community didn't actually care much between the two while you did, but, that's the breaks.

 

Curious that last bit.  Inertia from 1 reward is enough to give the victory to the Grineer, but Inertia from having the entire system does nothing for the Corpus. 

[notionphil]

Well, yeah.  The corpus started out with the entire system under their control.  Like, 100%.  That's pretty biased.

 

 Inertia from 1 reward is enough to give the victory to the Grineer, but Inertia from having the entire system does nothing for the Corpus. 

The original controller of a node has no effect on the outcome of the Conflict missions. Each node had at least one, so...this point is totally invalid.

 

 

No need to keep bringing this up.

Edited October 28, 2013 by notionphil

[rksk16it]

Yes, I do think it's community decided.  I'm sorry you don't like that so much of the community didn't actually care much between the two while you did, but, that's the breaks.

 

Curious that last bit.  Inertia from 1 reward is enough to give the victory to the Grineer, but Inertia from having the entire system does nothing for the Corpus. 

 

Yea, you think its community decided because you probably underestimate the difference between a potato and credits as reward.

 

And whats with having an entire system belonging to Corpus ? Give me one fkin reason how does it matter to a player without thousand platinum clicks on a mission and find out a potato on one side and credits on other ? What is this "inertia" you speak of ?

 

Please pick more random points from nowhere without any explanation, I like how you argue the stuff.

[Phatose]

Fine. 

Explain to me why exactly the appropriate step here is not to make the Detron available to everyone?  Why exactly should we restrict it to Corpus supporters?

[notionphil]

Fine. 

Explain to me why exactly the appropriate step here is not to make the Detron available to everyone?  Why exactly should we restrict it to Corpus supporters?

 

That is the appropriate step. Allow everyone (with 100+ missions) to choose btw the winning side's gun+slot+potato, or the losing side's BP.

 

The rewards were botched, playtime has already been put in, that is the needed fix.

 

edit - added # missions

Edited October 28, 2013 by notionphil

[rksk16it]

Fine. 

Explain to me why exactly the appropriate step here is not to make the Detron available to everyone?  Why exactly should we restrict it to Corpus supporters?

 

Because :

 

- I did my 100 missions to get Detron and not that $&*&*#(%& looking gun shown with the grineer

 

- I dont give a single f**k about what majority of community wants

[LukeAura]

Wouldn't it make more sense to give the blueprint of the losers side to its supporters? 
Lotus is jacking them from the corpus/grineer anyways. She probably shouldn't do it from the side we just might have fostered some kind of relation with. And if all alliances dissolve at the end we already have been given the hand cannon from winner X, reverse engineerable at any time. It's still more logical to steal designs for hand cannon from Loser Y to create them. 

[VodkaGR]

Fine. 

Explain to me why exactly the appropriate step here is not to make the Detron available to everyone?  Why exactly should we restrict it to Corpus supporters?

Why should we restrict it to neither corpus nor grineer supporters? Both did the same effort to get their gun,and the penalty for losing is BP instead of crafted gun

Are you really so desperate to argue against choice that you're gonna go on for pages about how people deserve to lose on everything because they did not go with the majority's side?