Grakata: Crit Weapon Or Not?

[Vaskadar]

I'm pretty sure the Grakata used to have about 25% Crit Chance, then they nerfed it. Then they released the Soma, which has an extremely similar concept, fast-firing, low damage per shot, but with extreme criticals. The Grakata used to be a really good weapon, the stats extremely similar to the Soma as it is now.

So this is what DE did, in sequence:

Release Grakata, originally low stats -> Buff Grakata, give it monster crits, one of the best weapons in the game -> Nerf Grakata back to original stats, it's not so good again -> Release Soma, with stats similar to the buffed Grakata, but better.

So, they nerfed the Grakata from it's point of being a really good weapon, and then released a new weapon to just take it's place. It confounds and angers me to think about, personally. It's all pretty stupid.

Never did. It was originally a 7.5% crit chance, 150% crit damage.

Critical delay might actually be helpful on the Grakata.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Vector88]

no more please, no more. this kind of posts have been out for so long its not even funny.... its a cheap gun with cheap materials so it does not deserve any form of damage increase, its a low tier gun so its NOT suppose to have large amounts of damage, at all, EVAAAAA!!! 

That argument is ridiculous and invalid

 

The Braton has no rank requirement and is buyable directly with credits and it is a lot better in general than the Grakata which requires materials and also has no rank requirement. There is no arguing about the fact the Grakata is underpowered and need a buff of some sort

[TheMalachai]

You've got my upvote, OP. I built this weapon fairly late in my progress, just to try it out, and I was deeply saddened. It's the worst Primary I've tried. I'm not saying it should be one-shotting everything, I'm not saying that we should be taking it to Pluto, but it really, REALLY needs some love. I'm of the mindset that every weapon in the game should be fun. Not crazy powerful, just fun. This is a game, after all, and we're playing this game for fun.

 

The ammo efficiency is horrible. Worse than the Spectra, in my mind. As it stands, there's only three ways to fix this. We could lower the rate of fire, which would strip it of its feel. We could give it a flat damage buff, which would make it too powerful considering its rate of fire. Or we could increase its crit chance, which would make it a viable weapon if you actually put some work into it. The latter is the best choice, in my mind. If weapons were food, the Grakata would be communion wafers: infinity bland, and lacking in any nutritional value. Let's slap some BBQ flavor on that sucker.

[xblackpandax]

That argument is ridiculous and invalid

 

The Braton has no rank requirement and is buyable directly with credits and it is a lot better in general than the Grakata which requires materials and also has no rank requirement. There is no arguing about the fact the Grakata is underpowered and need a buff of some sort

from what i remembered i think they tried, im not sure what the outcome was because i just hated this weapon. But either way it should not be buffed as much as all the suggestions say it should. its material can be obtained in an hr or less if your fast and bp obtainable in shop. comparing it to a soma is like comparing dirt to gold if you actually look at it properly. the price of blueprints and materials needed are worlds apart and the soma even has a mastery rank

[TwiceDead]

It has an insane recoil, and could be fun to put heavy caliber on. 

[Vector88]

It has an insane recoil, and could be fun to put heavy caliber on. 

I heard firing a bullet hose at the ceiling is an effective way to to have the Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Corrupted laugh themselves to death

[DAttila]

I'm comparing it to the Soma because the Soma is the only other crit-based weapon currently in the game.

If you can't bring anything constructive to the conversation, why do you bother posting?

[xblackpandax]

I'm comparing it to the Soma because the Soma is the only other crit-based weapon currently in the game.

If you can't bring anything constructive to the conversation, why do you bother posting?

like i said, ive seen this post before, same weapon same request to boost it. i can assure you right now if u were to boost this thing to any of the suggested stats then people will start to complain its too powerful for the mats used to build it. i mean 2 neurodes 400 plates 800 salvage and 100 bundles, what do you expect out of a gun made from such a small amount of materials? theres a reason why DE hasn't buffed this gun even after many cries for it to be buffed.

[DAttila]

Because this isn't a beta and material costs for things as well as anything else are set in stone.

[xblackpandax]

Yea so the weapon cost and strength should match no?

[TheThreadWeaver]

The Braton has no rank requirement and is buyable directly with credits and it is a lot better in general than the Grakata which requires materials and also has no rank requirement. There is no arguing about the fact the Grakata is underpowered and need a buff of some sort

 

I was going to say exactly this, but couldn't find the right way to phrase it. Then you went ahead and did if for me. You awesome person you. Going to re-post it, because it's the most valid point I've seen in support of some kind of buff.

[Boxyninja]

the soma became what the grakata was suppose to be except better. i believe they are going to rework the grakata

[-RG-Jezus]

Now that I'm back from my ban i can return to saying - Wait for armor 2.0, A lot of the weapons are going to function differently, for all we know, in armor 2.0 they will be balanced. Nothing is perfect. Once again it all comes down to the game being in beta.

 

And as someone in this thread has shown, the grakata can be made useful, you just have to find the right opening, i suggest about 5 foot away from the door with huge recoil and dmg.

[DAttila]

I believe so too. That's why I wanted this thread to be around, so that if or when they get around to it, they can reference this and take it into consideration for a redesign. I would definitely like to keep my Grakata for more things, since it's a fun weapon to use. :D

[HUNK3]

Considering resources and mastery required, Soma should be powerful compared to Grakata,

but it wouldn't hurt to add some twist so that players can choose between Grakata and Soma.

 

Here's the idea

1.Change the Crit rate of Grakata to 25-30%.

2.Switch the recoil of Soma and Grakata.

 

1. will boost the damage output of Grakata to some useful level, but still far less compared to Soma.

 

2. will make Soma more of a LMG while giving Grakata accuracy that compensate for damage output gap

by making shots to weak spots easier. 

Edited November 3, 2013 by HUNK3

[HUNK3]

Now that I'm back from my ban i can return to saying - Wait for armor 2.0, A lot of the weapons are going to function differently, for all we know, in armor 2.0 they will be balanced. Nothing is perfect. Once again it all comes down to the game being in beta.

 

And as someone in this thread has shown, the grakata can be made useful, you just have to find the right opening, i suggest about 5 foot away from the door with huge recoil and dmg.

 

Both Soma and Grakata do bullet damage, and they share very similar characteristics, just Soma being far superior. I don't see the armor 2.0 making any difference for the balance between Soma and Grakata.

Edited November 3, 2013 by HUNK3

[-RG-Jezus]

Both Soma and Grakata do bullet damage, and they share very similar characteristics, just Soma being far superior. I don't see the armor 2.0 making any difference for the balance between Soma and Grakata.

Wait to see. How can you say that armor 2.0 wont make a difference when you know nothing about 2.0

 

 

Considering resources and mastery required, Soma should be powerful compared to Grakata,

but it wouldn't hurt to add some twist so that players can choose between Grakata and Soma.

 

Here's the idea

1.Change the Crit rate of Grakata to 25-30%.

2.Switch the recoil of Soma and Grakata.

 

1. will boost the damage output of Grakata to some useful level, but still far less compared to Soma.

 

2. will make Soma more of a LMG while giving Grakata accuracy that compensate for damage output gap

by making shots to weak spots easier. 

so swap them basically. LOL

[LukeAura]

Wait to see. How can you say that armor 2.0 wont make a difference when you know nothing about 2.0

 

 

so swap them basically. LOL

We actually know quite a bit about damage 2.0. There's a spreadsheet giving us a rough scaling, new damage and armor types. Elemental combos. 

We can make rough ideas right now, but we don't know specifics. 

I would say Rifles have the best crit mods, and not enough crit based rifles.

You have a few snipers with iffy crit chances/damage modifiers at best(When you're about killing foes in one hit only critting two thirds of the time isn't enough. Nor is the critical damage large enough on them to take big effect).

The Soma, which is overpowered because no other rifle takes full advantage of their superior critical mods  

and the even iffier Grakata. 

Make the Grakata a crit based gun, the rifle pool needs it. 

[HUNK3]

Wait to see. How can you say that armor 2.0 wont make a difference when you know nothing about 2.0

 

 

so swap them basically. LOL

Not exactly swapping. Even with crit rate boost for Grakata, Soma would do far more damage because of higher crit multiplier and higher base damage. Without mods, Grakata does 18 while 30 for Soma when crit occurs. My point is to make Grakata more of a LMG like Gorgon, than an assault rifle with the clip size that of a LMG.

 

As of armor 2.0, it wouldn't affect the gap between Grakata and Soma since both of them do bullet damage.

[Vaskadar]

At least the weapon reviews post Armor 2.0 should make for some rather turbulent rebalancing of weapons in general. I look forward to it. Hopefully update 11 comes out at the end of this month.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Vaskadar

[DAttila]

I highly doubt DE will want to touch anything about the Soma.

I'm fine with the Grakata's recoil, put a Stabilization mod on it and it will be eliminated completely.

 

But a 10-15% increase in base crit would be definitely enough to bring the Grakata out of its rut to take its place as the Tommy Gun of Warframe.

[-RG-Jezus]

Not exactly swapping. Even with crit rate boost for Grakata, Soma would do far more damage because of higher crit multiplier and higher base damage. Without mods, Grakata does 18 while 30 for Soma when crit occurs. My point is to make Grakata more of a LMG like Gorgon, than an assault rifle with the clip size that of a LMG.

 

As of armor 2.0, it wouldn't affect the gap between Grakata and Soma since both of them do bullet damage.

I love how people go on about crit multiplier and higher base without remembering that the grakata fires significantly faster. If your going to compare a weapon, compare base dps, instead of base dmg. I can currently put down as much dps with my grakata as my soma BEFORE you spec for crit, purely because its so much faster. Mod for damage and fire speed and it becomes kinda ridiculous atm. but since nobody thinks about modding different weapons for different roles, people dont often see -point at door, hold fire, everything dies-

 

The grakata is not terrible for low-mid lvl, which is what it is intended for, it was never meant to be an end game weapon to me. 

 

DE has stated it is reworking some weapons on 2.0 and then there is damage 2.0 coming up aswell...

[DAttila]

That is correct, supersaupe, but do note that the Grakata's accuracy is also lower.

That means that unlike the Soma, whose accuracy is only lowered by recoil, this has bad accuracy to begin with. Even IF you put a Stabilizer on, you will still have Braton-like accuracy, so you will definitely have to close to at least close-to-medium range. Grakata's range is skirting that of a shotgun, it's a high risk, high reward crit-based weapon with a high fire rate as far as I'm concerned.

 

Another consideration: Ammo. Yes, it has a high DPS, but at what cost? How sustainable is that DPS? Ammo is a big factor in a game where you're swarmed by a multitude of enemies and here's why you DON'T mod a weapon for fire rate that has a high rate of fire to begin with.

The higher the rate of fire of a weapon, the more difficult it is to manage with something referred to as 'trigger discipline'. That is to say, if your gun turns into a bullet hose the millisecond you pull its trigger, you'll be hard-pressed to keep it from expending your entire magazine before you even have a chance to react. You can add a mod to lower your reload time, but to what end, exactly?

 

So you could go through your ammo pool even quicker? No.

Grakata has a high enough fire rate, and too low a crit chance. You need to treat it as a carbine or sub-machine gun.

[-RG-Jezus]

That is correct, supersaupe, but do note that the Grakata's accuracy is also lower.

That means that unlike the Soma, whose accuracy is only lowered by recoil, this has bad accuracy to begin with. Even IF you put a Stabilizer on, you will still have Braton-like accuracy, so you will definitely have to close to at least close-to-medium range. Grakata's range is skirting that of a shotgun, it's a high risk, high reward crit-based weapon with a high fire rate as far as I'm concerned.

 

Another consideration: Ammo. Yes, it has a high DPS, but at what cost? How sustainable is that DPS? Ammo is a big factor in a game where you're swarmed by a multitude of enemies and here's why you DON'T mod a weapon for fire rate that has a high rate of fire to begin with.

The higher the rate of fire of a weapon, the more difficult it is to manage with something referred to as 'trigger discipline'. That is to say, if your gun turns into a bullet hose the millisecond you pull its trigger, you'll be hard-pressed to keep it from expending your entire magazine before you even have a chance to react. You can add a mod to lower your reload time, but to what end, exactly?

 

So you could go through your ammo pool even quicker? No.

Grakata has a high enough fire rate, and too low a crit chance. You need to treat it as a carbine or sub-machine gun.

There accuracy is technically the same actually, go check the wiki.

 

And yes, it can be difficult to handle, and you do go through ammo rather quickly, which is why i personally use it situationally with ammo mutation and its usage depends on the mission. IE, i will never take a grakata on a defense or survival, however on a capture, rescue or exterminate, i rarely run out of ammo.

 

 

Ohh i forgot about the trigger discipline part. Yeah, I can never stop myself emptying that clip. I can get 10 round bursts etc from it, but that is not why i use a grakata, with me its a whole mag or nothing weapon.

Edited November 5, 2013 by supersaupe

[Dogoframe]

That argument is ridiculous and invalid

 

The Braton has no rank requirement and is buyable directly with credits and it is a lot better in general than the Grakata which requires materials and also has no rank requirement. There is no arguing about the fact the Grakata is underpowered and need a buff of some sort

There is a serious problem with the Braton series for beginners tho. As soon as you leave Mercury (or go past 10 min in Appolodorus) the Bratons will be dealing around 3 dmg after removing shields. To make the Bratons viable they need Serration, and you will be swimming in crit MODs before you can get your Serration unless you are very, very, extremely lucky. So in summary, for beginners, it is 1000 times easier to get some mileage out of crits with the Grakatta than suffer the 3 dmg per shot of the Bratons.

 

Of course, if you have Serration, the Bratons will serve you better.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Dogoframe