Pls Rebalance 4Th Skills, Op Skills.

[Spiffmeister]

Knock up some of the 4th abilities to 150 power then? I agree that the ultimates are way to easy to use, the trick is getting the right balance on their costs.

The only other problem is that if the Mags crush is too expensive/hard to use no one will play it. It's powers really aren't useful enough as supporters to justify taking a mag over a trinity.

[Janexo]

Anyway, i noticed all this mag/frost ulti spam and i felt angry at first. They're taking all the kills, and there's none left for us - no teamwork at all. I made a frost and mag to play from the other point of view. It felt good killing everything easily and taking every kill. It made the game much for easier for me and allowed me to get into the top 100 of the leaderboard. It felt fruitless now that i notice and it doesn't suit me at all.

From what i see, people are angry at a different play style that isn't what they want to be part of. Having a frame like mag only using crush would take away their play style that suits them. The fun and pleasure of being a tenno in a suit with 3 other players and assisting each other is rewarding. However, when you have 1 player straight up slaughtering everything: it's a massacre. The other 3 have no role or lost their place in the meaning of teamwork and Co-Op. Whether it's ganging up on a top priority target who knows your name enough to be your own personal stalker, encountering groups of enemies filled with bloodlust, fighting off a swarm hungry canines that should be put on a leash or even have everyone shooting the same rolling ball for 30 god-damn seconds which is even more annoying than my ex-girlfriend - is no fun if the experience has been taken away from you.

For me, i try to find a way to play with these people. In Xini, ancients are a threat so i play as Ash. Shuriken to 2-hit ancients, smoke screen to stun enemies around the cryptopod for team members to melee at ease and delay their attempt in destroying it, teleport to close the distance between me and a downed teammate and bladestorm as a last resort 1-hitting all enemies including ancients.(i use power strength)

I think balancing may be needed to avoid abuse of these powers, but no one likes nerfs heh. I'll just post my thoughts - Maximum power range limit for these skills, limit capacity of energy from Power Efficiency/scrap it, or a limit on the maximum number of kills.

hmmm...i should mention a Rhino can out-dps mag/frost - so long as there's enough delay. Power range+maxed radial blast with at least one Power Strength can 1 hit every lesser infested in Xini. A well executed radial blast during Mag's crush animation will allow Rhino to steal most of her kills. Though the drawback is the limited mod slot.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Ravilis

[DetergentPod]

I don't see what the problem is with 4th skill at the moment. I barely even use them in mission that aren't like Xini, By Xini I mean defense mission where you're swarm with about 50+ Mobs each round. Even so I don't spam Frost ultimate in Xini. I only use it when there so much mobs you can't kill them all with guns and swords. Otherwise it would feel like a waste of 100 energy to me. In other mission that aren't defense I only use it when I'm in an obstacle like the one in Defense mission where you're surround by 20+ Mobs.

Ash Ultimate max kill is 9 because he teleports around and slice things. Pretty sure you'll get tired if thats what you do constantly. As for the rest they stand there and their power do all the work. Frost and Mags ultimate shouldn't have a limit as to how many they can kill as long as enemy is within range.

When you think of Avalanche you think of Snow coming down a hill or mountain at high speed burying everything in their path. It be silly to say 50 people are in the way and only 20 people get kill/bury while the other 30 are fine. Or Mags ultimate which intensify the gravity within a certain radius and only 20 people out of the 50 that are within that radius get their bone crush. That is stupid, not to mention unrealistic for the discription of their abilities. If you think the game are too easy try soloing Xini on your own. Or get a Group of friends and do Xini without using your 4th skills even once.

Don't force your idea of a challenge onto others. What good is Mag as a damage dealer if you nerf her ultimate? Her 1, 2, and 3 doesn't do any form of damage. If you want to do damage like them then get the Warframe and stop crying about how your warframe doesn't do what their warframe does. If you think the game is too easy limit yourself by setting restriction.

Edited March 3, 2013 by ThePieBoy

[Zyfe3rX]

just rebalance MAG skills, everything iz fine !

[UnderYourBed]

Mag needs a buff, yes.

[Mirsh]

They are fixed damage, why should they nerf? Just because they make it easy to difficult situations?

[Venarge]

but its sad.. many many players just spam his skills ;/

Prob ur the one of this players who only using power skills to fight.

This skills NEED big rebalance!!

Just becuase you dont have them doesnt mean they need to be rebalanced. I get these orokin reactor blueprints almost every 2 days.

I got 2 reactors in my inventory without buying them so its easy to achieve a charged frame. they dont need to be balanced. They are supposed to be uber. They cost 100 and thats fine.

[Zinn]

Honestly, every frame has stupidly OP skills and it's kinda funny barely anyone notices in this thread. Sure, a Mag or Frost stealing kills can be annoying but the fact is that those two can't do a damn thing to enemies that matter: Bosses and Ancients. They certainly have utility skills for those, but watching an Excal mow down a line of 4 Ancients with one or two skill uses, a Rhino facetanking a boss or using stomp, Ash or Loki exploiting melee crits and so on is just as frustrating if their targets are the one thing you'd like to do something particular to (maybe getting out your shotgun or melee).

I don't know why people care that much about kills anyway but that might just be me: IMO, most of Warframe is about getting resources at a decent pace and if you're having a kill contest that slows it down. In that context, Frost and Mag are handy for keeping trash away during a boss fight or navigating levels, the melee specialists can finish bosses/heavies quickly, Rhino can tank, immobilise bosses/heavies and use invincibility to revive safely, while Trinity can provide infinite energy and healing. It's very hard to find situations where all frames don't have a use in a farming context, which is what you're going to be doing a lot when not levelling new stuff or unlocking areas.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Zinn

[Mir.]

I like play Online..but mostly i play with friends. With Friend group we dont use this skills.. we have more fun with difrent way,

When i go play with random ppl im usualy find platers who stand on boxes and spaming 4th skills at every mob wave, it &!$$ed me off.. destroying whole co-op system and all teamplay.

Im mad because i dont have this skills.. no i have Mag or Frost.. and its borring.. realy...no fun with this.

I stopped reading after this.

IMO, you're jeolous you can't get kills?

Frost is indeed overpowered, but at a high cost of 375 platinums from the market. Lech Kril isn't easy to kill too.

Whilst mag's cheaper, her first 3 skills is almost useless, except for bullet attractor which may have some use during bossing.

Want a free area based frame? Make a new account and start off with Volt.

[Dreed]

Just becuase you dont have them doesnt mean they need to be rebalanced. I get these orokin reactor blueprints almost every 2 days.

I got 2 reactors in my inventory without buying them so its easy to achieve a charged frame. they dont need to be balanced. They are supposed to be uber. They cost 100 and thats fine.

i have them all.. have Frost, Mag, Ember.. Power cost is nothing.. with my Mods can clear every wave SOLO without use any single shoot or mele attack just clear Ancients... its sad when with 4 man team if u get 1-2 warframes like Frost mag etc. rest team just stand and wait for any action.. they stand and do nothig what make game bored.

With greenier fight.. there is no problem.. every wave cleared with 2 skills.. with 2 warframes there is no problem.. all just gone in a sec.

After exp changed ppl who dont' use AoE skills get very low Exp. because they dont kill mobs. Prob i dont have screens but have some fight when i killed 80% of mobs with 4man team.. only because i spam my AOE.

All skills need to be rebalanced and changed.. there shouldnt be a option to clear room with any single skill use.. sorry .. that action kill co-op in this game... i play with ppl only because in group i get more mods.. and thats all.

I stopped reading after this.

IMO, you're jeolous you can't get kills?

Frost is indeed overpowered, but at a high cost of 375 platinums from the market. Lech Kril isn't easy to kill too.

Whilst mag's cheaper, her first 3 skills is almost useless, except for bullet attractor which may have some use during bossing.

Want a free area based frame? Make a new account and start off with Volt.

What the hell You talking about... about Plat price.. you think this is the main problem or the price depends if warframes is good or not. OMG

I dont bought any of Warframes.. farm bosses and materials.. crafted them all...

Lech Krall is so EASY like all other boss.

@Zinn

Played a long time with MAG.. ok his rest skills sux a little. In combat i need to focus on Weapons.. usualy on Rifle or Pistols.. but there is a way to make a MAG good mele fighter.. just need use a proper weapon and mods..

If they do FROST 4th skill to hit a set number of mob nothing bad will happen because the rest of the skill is very useful.

However, this doesnt mean that this skills doesnt require reconstruction/rebalance.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dreed

[Venarge]

i have them all.. have Frost, Mag, Ember.. Power cost is nothing.. with my Mods can clear every wave SOLO without use any single shoot or mele attack just clear Ancients... its sad when with 4 man team if u get 1-2 warframes like Frost mag etc. rest team just stand and wait for any action.. they stand and do nothig what make game bored.

With greenier fight.. there is no problem.. every wave cleared with 2 skills.. with 2 warframes there is no problem.. all just gone in a sec.

After exp changed ppl who dont' use AoE skills get very low Exp. because they dont kill mobs. Prob i dont have screens but have some fight when i killed 80% of mobs with 4man team.. only because i spam my AOE.

All skills need to be rebalanced and changed.. there shouldnt be a option to clear room with any single skill use.. sorry .. that action kill co-op in this game... i play with ppl only because in group i get more mods.. and thats all.

What the hell You talking about... about Plat price.. you think this is the main problem or the price depends if warframes is good or not. OMG

I dont bought any of Warframes.. farm bosses and materials.. crafted them all...

Lech Krall is so EASY like all other boss.

@Zinn

Played a long time with MAG.. ok his rest skills sux a little. In combat i need to focus on Weapons.. usualy on Rifle or Pistols.. but there is a way to make a MAG good mele fighter.. just need use a proper weapon and mods..

If they do FROST 4th skill to hit a set number of mob nothing bad will happen because the rest of the skill is very useful.

However, this doesnt mean that this skills doesnt require reconstruction/rebalance.

I still dont understand your wish for balance. you want all the mobs? go solo! you want a aoe frame? go craft it! you want more kills? go and find a orokin reactor and charge the frame. ending. Balancing every 4th just because it could steal some kills is just selfish. And by the way. With my 30 on eris, 4ths arent kills, they just hurt a little. You still have to shoot them your own....

[Dreed]

All my warframes have orokins.. and 30 lvl same as weapons..

What i want... warframes with skills what can help with solo play and what dont destroy whole party and team play..

Venarge you dont talking with player who just start his jorney in Warframe.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dreed

[Ifreet]

Actually I love playing with them because it is so much more relax. We just have to help them mark way point on mod drops or help them finish off ancients.

[Mir.]

What the hell You talking about... about Plat price.. you think this is the main problem or the price depends if warframes is good or not. OMG

I dont bought any of Warframes.. farm bosses and materials.. crafted them all...

Lech Krall is so EASY like all other boss.

Read. I clearly said that Lech Kril isn't easy to kill, if you think it's so easy, good for you. Cause' I had spend at least, 3 days on farming for the prints, failed about 20 times over.

The plat prices for frames are a rough guide for people, I run with my Mag/Volt sometimes over Frost because of their abilities. Althought Frost is much better overall, he still moves slow.

If I were to make it any less simpler; Warframes each have their own flaws and cons.

[neKroMancer]

I believe that we need more diversity in ultimates.

Direct damage/Fire&forget type : Excalibur, Mag, Frost, Ember, Volt, Ash.

Debuff/CC : Loki, Rhino.

Special type/buff : Nyx, Trinity.

The way I see this matter : Ultimates suffer from lack of diversity and in higher level, suffer from lack of damage. Even Frost's Avalanche, fully upgraded, can't kill a lv 55 mook in Hades. Due to their direct damage nature, they will always be lacking at higher level without mod/artifact to support them. Especially in the new 'endless' defense mission in the upcoming update 7.

I believe that in the long run, with higher level mooks and higher level weapon release in future update as a part of endgame, direct damage ultimates will create a balancing problem. Extremely strong in the beginning and lacking in the end.

[Dreed]

Read. I clearly said that Lech Kril isn't easy to kill, if you think it's so easy, good for you. Cause' I had spend at least, 3 days on farming for the prints, failed about 20 times over.

The plat prices for frames are a rough guide for people, I run with my Mag/Volt sometimes over Frost because of their abilities. Althought Frost is much better overall, he still moves slow.

If I were to make it any less simpler; Warframes each have their own flaws and cons.

Still it depends on what you add and how you build your character ... I'm sorry but many players dont know how to customize character in the best way. For exaple they putting a lot of armor when basic warframe armor is 10 ;].. or they want to make it good in mele fight when on close combat this warfreme die very fast;/

Lech Krall is so easy... just stay cover and kill him.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dreed

[Mir.]

Still it depends on what you add and how you build your character ... I'm sorry but many players dont know how to customize character in the best way. For exaple they putting a lot of armor when basic warframe armor is 10 ;].. or they want to make it good in mele fight when on close combat this warfreme die very fast;/

Lech Krall is so easy... just stay cover and kill him.

I solo'd Kril after I got some multishot mods on Boltor, and it's safe to say that the whole ordeal is only solo-able after you have pretty good mods.

When I started, I tried to built Frost, with no good mods or anything I had to depend on a good team.

Yeap, you're getting the gist of it, let's say for a controversal frame like Ash, he has really good melee damage (35 from wiki, yet some people wanted to treat Ash like Frost to take down heaps of enemies at a single skill, which was not intended to be) Frost has a much lower melee damage (15) get him a good gun and not focus much on his melee and you're good to go.

TL;DR, focus on your frames' abilities, each frame has their pros and cons.

[Dreed]

I solo'd Kril after I got some multishot mods on Boltor, and it's safe to say that the whole ordeal is only solo-able after you have pretty good mods.

When I started, I tried to built Frost, with no good mods or anything I had to depend on a good team.

Yeap, you're getting the gist of it, let's say for a controversal frame like Ash, he has really good melee damage (35 from wiki, yet some people wanted to treat Ash like Frost to take down heaps of enemies at a single skill, which was not intended to be) Frost has a much lower melee damage (15) get him a good gun and not focus much on his melee and you're good to go.

TL;DR, focus on your frames' abilities, each frame has their pros and cons.

Its a joke.. Ash dont boost mele dmg even its on wiki... i dont see more dmg with my mele weapons...

On Ash i have 4 mele dmg mods..

On Frost i dont have it.

So i take off it and go make some test:

On Ash 35 dmg

On Frost 35 dmg

So no difrent what warframe !

More.. Frost on Wiki has 1.05 Sprint speed .. Ash 1.0 but Ash is the faster warframe in the game..

Pros and cons.. ok but they need change it some.. add maximum number of hit target stop make them OP...

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dreed

[Mir.]

Its a joke.. Ash dont boost mele dmg even its on wiki... i dont see more dmg with my mele weapons...

On Ash i have 4 mele dmg mods..

On Frost i dont have it.

So i take off it and go make some test:

On Ash 35 dmg

On Frost 35 dmg

So no difrent what warframe !

More.. Frost on Wiki has 1.05 Sprint speed .. Ash 1.0 but Ash is the faster warframe in the game..

Pros and cons.. ok but they need change it some.. add maximum number of hit target stop make them OP...

ah crap, really? Doesn't make sense for Frost with 35 base melee though.

Overpowered? nah, just in situations where the advantages of AoE based attacks seemed to make certain frames OP.

Let's just say you're in another situation now, trying to unlock all of Eris areas by yourself (since I rarely find other squads out of Xini in Eris..) The monsters are all terribly strong and you can't take them all out by yourself. Best solution is to run, get to your objective and run to extraction. You have a choice of 2 warframes, a slow moving Frost and a faster moving warframe such as Excalibur or Volt(with movement based skills) which one will you choose?

[Dreed]

Excalibur

btw.. i cleared Eris and Ceris with Mage .. solo .. including bosses :)

[Mak_Gohae]

Any frame can have an OP ability if you build for it.

I was doing Xini and had a Rhino who could radial blast the whole room.

The dude must've put some big power range mods on to do that but he was clearing the room as easy as any Volt/Frost/Mag.

[Dreed]

Any frame can have an OP ability if you build for it.

I was doing Xini and had a Rhino who could radial blast the whole room.

The dude must've put some big power range mods on to do that but he was clearing the room as easy as any Volt/Frost/Mag.

Its true.. and still have hope that teamwork will be needed to clear room .. not using one skill ;]

Even invisible can be OP.. but only with good weapon :) thats a small example how skill can help in fight. When 4th skill on Frost will just freez whole room instead of deal dmg it still will be useful and helpful skill for himslef and whole team..

Fight with weapon... support with skills.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dreed

[SeptimusAstrum]

-1

4th skills are rad. OP-ness makes them hella fun.

[Oktalz]

I believe that we need more diversity in ultimates.

Direct damage/Fire&forget type : Excalibur, Mag, Frost, Ember, Volt, Ash.

Debuff/CC : Loki, Rhino.

Special type/buff : Nyx, Trinity.

The way I see this matter : Ultimates suffer from lack of diversity and in higher level, suffer from lack of damage. Even Frost's Avalanche, fully upgraded, can't kill a lv 55 mook in Hades. Due to their direct damage nature, they will always be lacking at higher level without mod/artifact to support them. Especially in the new 'endless' defense mission in the upcoming update 7.

I believe that in the long run, with higher level mooks and higher level weapon release in future update as a part of endgame, direct damage ultimates will create a balancing problem. Extremely strong in the beginning and lacking in the end.

From where I´m sitting this is as it should be. WE the players are at max lv 30 at the moment. The pluto mobs etc are lv 45+ if we were to own them with our direct dpd ultis it would be lame. The simple fact is that they are higher level with higher armor and resistances and a higher HP pool as such they dont die in one shot. It is not that the ulti is underpowered it is simply the case that it is underleveled or the frame is underleveled.

Rest assured that the max level will not be lv 30 forever and rest assured that the highest content will always be stronger than the players, otherwise it wouldnt be a challenge, thus all is as it should be. AND a nice sideffect is that people who complain that room clear abilities are to strong will at the endgame have more to contribute to large fights. Nothing to change here nothing to add here. ALL IS AS INTENDED, it is this way in ALL games.

Thank you very much.

[lNogardl]

In my honest opinion, if anything needs to be changed it's animation to turn each and every skill unique and flashy, Ash currently holds the most "Was that even an ultimate?" ultimate ever. Yes it deals high damage, but it looks very "meh". Same goes for the shuriken, i'd rather launch a huge &#! shuriken than a small barely noticeable beam of light that doesn't aim properly. (i know this is off-topic).

But yeah, everything is how it'0s supposed to be, ultimates are currently good, some normal skills are the ones that need re-work.