A Complete Rework Of The Foundation Of Warframe.

[Juranai]

No.

[Juranai]

If I wanted something like this I would still be playing lord of the ring online

[_Fracture8]

Good to see that one of us is actually trying to improve the current system of Warframe instead of *@##$ing, moaning and whining about it only to leave in a fit of rage. I would must rather prefer this to the mod card system, the core damage is completely based on luck (something that should NOT be part of the core gameplay). Extra's like void items need to be random, not the damage itself.

[MenschOfUber]

I have to say I do agree with you Zamboni, the removal of the bad choices does make sense because it does eliminate what they wanted to avoid by removing conclave numbers from the lobby screen and that is the fact that if you had low conclave points you were generally not accepted into parties or there was a requirement. And while I do see your opinion on what the mastery tests should be I would also like to add that some of them do allow some sort of challenge to completing said mastery test. Of course this would not eliminate the fact that players of low mastery ranks just like conclaves would most likely not be allowed into certain parties I do agree that with your system it would have more emphasis on player skill rather than how much time has been spent farming for mods. Although having a mastery rank limit before joining a party might not be such a bad thing because it does determine how much time you've been in the game and the mastery rank tests should be something that prepare you for endgame i.e. mastery rank test where you have to escape while being surrounded by Infected by using your Warframe power, or something along those lines, scenarios that would prepare you for what is to come next when you reach Pluto.

 

Now along with what you've said about making mastery mean something rather than just having it be cosmetic (Apart from rank 8 highest req. for crafting a weapon/using said weapon) I do propose that when you have reached a certain mastery or skill level (Maybe Warframe rank) for a lack of a better word your Warframe evolves into it's Prime counter part as according to the lore of the game.

 

These 'Warrior-Gods' as stated in the Codex for Excalibur Prime do not feel as amazing as they are described nor do you really feel accomplished once you have obtained said prime frame, why? Because there's no test of your skill, you don't feel like you've grown as a player nor do you feel any more powerful than you were before. And let's face it any veteran player who has played with an unprimed variant of a frame will probably not feel too great about having to use all of that forma and a potato on the primed variant (Because in most cases primed versions do look better) to just get the same exact frame with stats and abilities to where the unprimed frame is already. I feel like this is just tedious, there's no point to it, a new player could have just joined and back when founders was still around, have obtained this 'Warrior-God' by just a means of throwing some money at the game and he has what? A slight increase in shield recharge that most people do not even notice.

 

While I do not think Primes should be removed I do believe that they should be added to the market or changed to alerts as a cosmetic skin, not a completely different frame (When in actuality they aren't) taking up space in my Warframe slot I should not have to be forced to go farm it as well as spend another potato + frame slot + forma to just enjoy a re-skin of the unprimed variant and I say forced because there is no other option if you want to play as the better looking counter part to a frame. This would also alleviate some space in the drop tables by removing Primes from the Void (We already saw they ran out of space for it because stuff wasn't dropping much in the Void and had to move it to OD) and more evenly spreading out primed weapon parts to build said weapons. 

 

The reason why I post this here first is because Zamboni's thread topic promotes changing of the game in my belief to give it more meaning rather than the endless grind and wait for new items(Maybe focusing more on other things like making us care about those unknown people we're saving from Grineers or showing us how our Invasion choices actually impact the solar system) I will probably make my own thread proposing this topic but for now hopefully I can get an opinion or two on this on this thread my apologies though I don't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to say that I do agree and commend your efforts Zamboni as well as many other people in this community forum that put much effort into helping the game for the change for the better. I know the focus of the thread wasn't on mastery but scrapping the mod system but eh. 

 

I'll post the thread I make here if it's alright with you Zamboni so maybe people can go check it out or rather if this idea/thread has been made already redirect me towards it. Thank you. 

 

I also thought you deserved more than a 'I agree with you'

[Shinobi-kun]

Fully support this, especially the weapons concept. Visual changes (cosmetics, camo, scopes) to weapons like CoD/BF MP should be possible even with credits, yes?

Even though it's a bit role-playing on the skills concept.

[theGreatZamboni]

No.

 

If I wanted something like this I would still be playing lord of the ring online

 

Alright then.

[SOUP.CAN]

Thank you.

[arche]

But your idea will end up as how the mods systems ends up. Sure, it does give a lot customization and choices to the players. But it will reach the state where everyone uses the same combo for melee, same cores for guns. There are only so much things in warframe. EG Slash DMG, Impact DMG and Puncture DMG, Elemental DMG. Soon enough, they will have to come up with dual stats core/barrel/whatever you suggested. Soon everyone who uses this 1 melee weapon will have the same skills/combos just because its op. Like how the mod systems works now. Soon everyone is gonna grind for their parts for guns too. Not much difference with the current mod systems at all.

[Sycokinetic]

But your idea will end up as how the mods systems ends up. Sure, it does give a lot customization and choices to the players. But it will reach the state where everyone uses the same combo for melee, same cores for guns. There are only so much things in warframe. EG Slash DMG, Impact DMG and Puncture DMG, Elemental DMG. Soon enough, they will have to come up with dual stats core/barrel/whatever you suggested. Soon everyone who uses this 1 melee weapon will have the same skills/combos just because its op. Like how the mod systems works now. Soon everyone is gonna grind for their parts for guns too. Not much difference with the current mod systems at all.

This is characteristic of just about every system and game, only, some systems are less problematic than others. There is an undeniable problem with warframe's current system: you cannot succeed without a specific set of mods. Every weapon is dependent on this set, as is every warframe. The intention is to create a system that recognizes the inevitability of nuke builds but allows for viable use of the other, more "fun" builds.

 

Now... I will contend that I struggle to see a notable difference between weapon attachments and mods. Note that this is unique to firearms; the changes to warframes and melee are obvious and excellent in my opinion. However, I don't see how these weapon attachments differ other than aesthetically. Yes, you suggest getting blueprints for them; but that only adds time spent building them. It appears to me that the improvements from your attachments could be implemented via a refined version of the mod system that is unique to Warframe. 

[castem]

I read all the way through the original post, and I'm quite glad I did.  The OP has a lot of fantastic ideas here on notice, and I hope DE becomes aware of them.

 

+1

[theGreatZamboni]

This is characteristic of just about every system and game, only, some systems are less problematic than others. There is an undeniable problem with warframe's current system: you cannot succeed without a specific set of mods. Every weapon is dependent on this set, as is every warframe. The intention is to create a system that recognizes the inevitability of nuke builds but allows for viable use of the other, more "fun" builds.

 

Now... I will contend that I struggle to see a notable difference between weapon attachments and mods. Note that this is unique to firearms; the changes to warframes and melee are obvious and excellent in my opinion. However, I don't see how these weapon attachments differ other than aesthetically. Yes, you suggest getting blueprints for them; but that only adds time spent building them. It appears to me that the improvements from your attachments could be implemented via a refined version of the mod system that is unique to Warframe. 

 

Did you read the Weapon spotlight? If not, I'd appreciate if you did and let me know what you think.

[lucio1019]

Assume my system is implemented tomorrow, fully realized. What is your issue with it? By asking this I am trying to extract why you are opposed to it.

 

Every system has a limit. What is your limit to the player in the system you proposed?

I assume it will be the total skill points a player can get.

Without the limit, every frame can become a "super frame" and can kill everything very quick and eventually warframe will become another "endless leveling up same frame game". Therefore, there must be a limit on skill points.

If there is a limit on skill points, then player has to decide which "skill tree per se" to put the points in. By putting points in one skill tree, player cannot enjoy the benefit of other skill trees. Then the choice become: what kind of mixed points investment will generate max benifit.

You are proposing a system will sperated slot from defence related and power related. It simplified the mod system now warframe has. But it restricted player's choice in an extreme way.

 

So, what if the mod system in warframe now is like:

Every warframe will have 4 powers.

Every warframe will have 6 mod slots

There are 3 groups of mods: defense, utility and power related. Only useful mods per se will be in the group, all useless mods are gone.

Defense mod can and only can be put into defense slot, same as utility and power mods.

These slots will be open by the process of player leveling up their frame. 

When frame leveling up, frame will receive skill points. Which slot will open next depends on the skill points player invested. For example, every 5 skill points player put into power will open a power mod slot. The same as the defense and utility.

 

Will this one any difference than yours? 

 

Also, you consider intruder mod is useless. So, what about DE triple the difficult in hacking and remove the hacking clip?

[theGreatZamboni]

Every system has a limit. What is your limit to the player in the system you proposed?

I assume it will be the total skill points a player can get.

Without the limit, every frame can become a "super frame" and can kill everything very quick and eventually warframe will become another "endless leveling up same frame game". Therefore, there must be a limit on skill points.

If there is a limit on skill points, then player has to decide which "skill tree per se" to put the points in. By putting points in one skill tree, player cannot enjoy the benefit of other skill trees. Then the choice become: what kind of mixed points investment will generate max benifit.

You are proposing a system will sperated slot from defence related and power related. It simplified the mod system now warframe has. But it restricted player's choice in an extreme way.

 

So, what if the mod system in warframe now is like:

Every warframe will have 4 powers.

Every warframe will have 6 mod slots

There are 3 groups of mods: defense, utility and power related. Only useful mods per se will be in the group, all useless mods are gone.

Defense mod can and only can be put into defense slot, same as utility and power mods.

These slots will be open by the process of player leveling up their frame. 

When frame leveling up, frame will receive skill points. Which slot will open next depends on the skill points player invested. For example, every 5 skill points player put into power will open a power mod slot. The same as the defense and utility.

 

Will this one any difference than yours? 

 

Also, you consider intruder mod is useless. So, what about DE triple the difficult in hacking and remove the hacking clip?

 

 

And you proved my point. You didn't carefully read the OP.

 

 

The key is creating a means in which the player can utilize mods like Intruder, without having them share the same space as Redirection or Focus. When your Warframe increases in level, they receive a flat increase to things like shields, energy and health. But unlike now, the increases would be a bit more significant. Along with receiving a boots to stats upon leveling, players receive points to spend in their skill tree. Each branch of the tree pulls from its own pool of points. So for each level you are given 1 point to spend per tree. Because you are pulling points from different pools, it eliminates one of the largest downsides of the current system. Mods like Intruder having to share the same space as mods like Focus or Redirection.

Edited December 23, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[PhoenixShi]

The only real comment I have about the proposal is that this IS a loot fest grinder, they made it to be a loot fest grinder, and mods are the main way they've made it into a loot fest grinder. A skill tree system rather than mods would be preferable to me though. I always steered away from commenting on this, as it's really long, and don't think you should comment on things you didn't even read. Although, what I did look over seemed well thought out, and functional, I'm just wondering what the loot will be in the proposed system? Removing the loot fest aspect from a loot fest grinder would turn many people off.

 

I like loot fest grinders, but the ones I've played the most are ones where I need to really try, or it'd just chew me up, without resorting to cheap death mechanics. With free to play ones they can have enhancement systems that just remove all difficulty, if used too much, so I don't over enhance my stuff, and the game is still challenging, as they balance against the average, not the overpowered. Here they seem to be trying to balance against the over powered status they've given us with the mod system they let run out of control.

[Sycokinetic]

Did you read the Weapon spotlight? If not, I'd appreciate if you did and let me know what you think.

Ah, I'm sorry. I didn't notice the link.

 

And kudos for answering me before I asked. Without having fleshed out an example of such a "refined version of the mod system," it appears that such a system would actually be unable to answer my own question. It'd be too similar to your own to justify keeping weapon modifications in the form of mods as opposed to your attachments, particularly considering your attachments align so much more intuitively with needed weapon-specific items.

 

My only comment left is that, when bringing in systems similar to other games (such as skill trees and weapon attachments), one must take care not to create just another shooter. Of course, such systems are common because they actually work; but it is important to make sure the new system sands out from from the rest. I worry that a mistake in implementation could result in Warframe's metagame becoming typical. That being said, typical is superior to broken; so I most definitely say yours is the correct one to follow. Even with the risk of a standard metagame, the acrobatic gameplay alone will offset that drastically. Thank you very much for your work. :)

Edited December 23, 2013 by Sycokinetic

[lucio1019]

And you proved my point. You didn't carefully read the OP.

 

With your idea, you pretty much are saying:

 

"I want more mod slots, I want more points I can spend on mods. I want to put every single useful mods in my frame."

Or let me make it simple:

If DE makes us have 30 mod slots and 180 points energy to mod, your wish will be fulfilled.

 

I mentioned above in my post about "limitation". 

What you propose is basicaly a system without limits about how strong a player can be. It means: super solider, a player is so powerful that no mob in the game can match. 

Warframe will become a brainless key smach game, which will be no fun.

Edited December 24, 2013 by lucio1019

[theGreatZamboni]

With your idea, you pretty much are saying:

 

"I want more mod slots, I want more points I can spend on mods. I want to put every single useful mods in my frame."

Or let me make it simple:

If DE makes us have 30 mod slots and 180 points energy to mod, your wish will be fulfilled.

 

I mentioned above in my post about "limitation". 

What you propose is basicaly a system without limits about how strong a player can be. It means: super solider, a player is so powerful that no mob in the game can match. 

Warframe will become a brainless key smach game, which will be no fun.

 

Again: reading comprehension. What evidence do you have? This and your previous opinions were based on misreading the source material. I would never write a review of a movie I didn't see. Also your description: "brainless key smach game" perfectly describes Warframe now. I am willing to expound on inquiries you may have, but every thing you have been saying is baseless conjecture because you do not have a grasp of the proposed ideas. Plenty of others who both like and dislike the ideas presented have been able to express so in a reasonable manner. Then there is a minority who did not read the idea in its entirety and then criticized aspects of it, "issues" that were actually addressed or covered. You fall into the latter category, as your rebuttal just now does not reflect that you read or reread the ideas before updating your opinion. I am not asking you to blindly agree, I am asking you to read what you intend to criticize. When you truly read something, you need to also comprehend it. If there was something confusing or any other question, I would gladly answer. But what you are saying holds no merit based on the fact your comments reflect a failure to uphold your end, and actually read the post.

Edited December 24, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[PhoenixShi]

Again: reading comprehension. What evidence do you have? This and your previous opinions were based on misreading the source material. I would never write a review of a movie I didn't see.

Not to defend him, but part of the problem is your first post, is HUGE. Part of the necessity of a suggestion is to get what you want to say out as effectively, and briefly as you can. Yours is gigantic, so large it means many, including the developers, wouldn't want to bother to read it all.

 

I agree that the game needs a major rethink, but trying to explain away every little detail or your interpretation of said rework is too much. They aren't going to follow a huge game changing suggestion to the letter, show the problems with the current one, give some general concepts on improvements, and let them go from there. If they want more feedback from you or others, they'll ask for it, but by making it that enormous, then getting annoyed when people didn't carefully digest each word, just make it something people would be less likely to invest the time to read through.

[theGreatZamboni]

Not to defend him, but part of the problem is your first post, is HUGE. Part of the necessity of a suggestion is to get what you want to say out as effectively, and briefly as you can. Yours is gigantic, so large it means many, including the developers, wouldn't want to bother to read it all.

I agree that the game needs a major rethink, but trying to explain away every little detail or your interpretation of said rework is too much. They aren't going to follow a huge game changing suggestion to the letter, show the problems with the current one, give some general concepts on improvements, and let them go from there. If they want more feedback from you or others, they'll ask for it, but by making it that enormous, then getting annoyed when people didn't carefully digest each word, just make it something people would be less likely to invest the time to read through.

It makes sense. But people are apparently so lazy or so inept they cannot spend 5 minutes to read something. What is the point of a forum? To talk about stuff. When talking about game design, you can't always be brief. There is nothing verbose about my post, there is not a single wasted or arbitrary thought. If fact people have said I am not specific enough, hence me rewriting large portions and adding to it. Saying it is long can only mask one's inability to actually read for so long. If you are truly interested in what I have to say, you read it. Then you comment on it. If you think something is too long, what good does posting about it do? Just hit the back button and go to another thread. This information is here for those who want to talk about it. If you want to talk about it, you better make sure you read it. Otherwise you end up contributing nothing. If someone is having issues understanding an aspect of it, I have no problem explaining it. How many times am I going to have to tell someone to just take the time and read it?

Saying it is too long is a childish excuse. So anytime you come across something that is long, you don't read it? Now I am not singling you out, but rather reciprocating what you are suggesting. Your blanket statement that the length is deterring people can disproved by the traffic, upvotes and replies this thread has received. While you need to factor in page refreshes and the shallow criticisms that reflect a lack comprehension, you can assume people are reading it. So yes, you are defending him. Don't perpetuate ignorance by excusing it.

Also your comment about DE asking for suggestions...do I even have to go here? What sub-forum are you on? Are you kidding me?

Edited December 25, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[PhoenixShi]

It makes sense. But people are apparently so lazy or so inept they cannot spend 5 minutes to read something.

... Five minutes, take a look at that first post of yours, good luck reading that in five minutes. Why wouldn't I want to read some immense wall of text broken up by the odd image you ask, because the likelihood of DE using it is pretty near zero. Mostly the suggestions forum of any game is just something fans use to kick around their own concepts of what should happen with the game, and maybe get a bit of a read on what people think in general. If you think DE carefully reads through every last post, no matter how long, with the intent of looking for things to use, you'd be mistaken.

 

You claim that there was not a wasted word, which is false, then waste plenty of words trying to insult me, others, and complain about the same thing in different ways. There is no down vote option, and no way to take back an up vote, I'm sure many just tossed you an up vote for the time you took to compose all that, without actually reading it. Also based on your points about my comments on suggestions, are you so inept or lazy to not have read what I wrote? I know what this forum is, I know how virtually useless it is, you seem to be unaware of that though.

 

Earlier I asked if you were suggesting they change the theme of the game from a loot fest grinder, to something else. Obviously you think it's more important to insult people, than discuss your own thread. Please don't bother to comment on that question, I really don't care anymore.

Edited December 24, 2013 by PhoenixShi

[lucio1019]

Ok.

 

Let me ask a simple question I never find the answer in you original post:

"What restriction you want to post on player?"

This question is simple, but keep in mind:"No restriction at all is as bad as too much restriction."

The restriciton system warframe has now is pretty simple:

1. Only frame mods can be put on frame

2. each frame cannot have more than 10 mods and 1 aura

3. total cost of mods cannot exceed 30(60)+aura bouns

 

So, you think warframe is a "brainless key smach game." Therefore, you don't think put mods on frame need "thinking process." So, I assume you just search online about "best build for xx" and call it day.

If so, I have no desire to continus this conversation.

 

P.S.

I glance through your orginial post. If you really want someone to read carefully through it, break it down. Put more spaces between paragraphs/topics.

 

P.S.2

After carefully read you propose of "skill tree leveling up frame." I found I DID NOT miss any MAJOR part of your idea.

As I ask in this post: what is your restriction on player?

To measure a systems freedom, it is NOT about what player can do, it IS about what a player cannot do.

Edited December 24, 2013 by lucio1019

[Volthorne]

So, you think warframe is a "brainless key smach game." Therefore, you don't think put mods on frame need "thinking process." So, I assume you just search online about "best build for xx" and call it day.

If so, I have no desire to continus this conversation.

 

P.S.

I glance through your orginial post. If you really want someone to read carefully through it, break it down. Put more spaces between paragraphs/topics.

 

P.S.2

After carefully read you propose of "skill tree leveling up frame." I found I DID NOT miss any MAJOR part of your idea.

As I ask in this post: what is your restriction on player?

To measure a systems freedom, it is NOT about what player can do, it IS about what a player cannot do.

The problem is mods sharing spaces with other - often more important - mods. Taking the example of Intruder vs. Redirection: Imagine you only had one mod slot on your Frame, and you have 20 mods to pick from. You've narrowed it down to Intruder (because opening locked doors is hard for whatever reason you want to assume) and Redirection (more shields. That is all), the only problem is you've got one slot, so having both is (obviously) out of the question. Would you rather have the mod that will only be useful in certain situations or a mod that is ALWAYS useful? That is the problem with the current system, mods that might be useful in certain situations (for which there are no guarantees of happening) are bumped out of builds in favour of mods that are going to be useful 100% of the time.

 

What you're not seeing is that you get a certain number of skillpoints PER TREE.

 

When your Warframe increases in level, they receive a flat increase to things like shields, energy and health. But unlike now, the increases would be a bit more significant. Along with receiving a boots to stats upon leveling, players receive points to spend in their skill tree. Each branch of the tree pulls from its own pool of points. So for each level you are given 1 point to spend per tree. Because you are pulling points from different pools, it eliminates one of the largest downsides of the current system. Mods like Intruder having to share the same space as mods like Focus or Redirection.

 

I've underlined and bolded the important bit. This means if you wanted to, you could totally take the new Intruder stand-in skill, along with a further increase to shields every level until they're maxed. The restriction is that now you're limited to a total of 90 points (30 per "tree") instead of the current large amount (60 + (4 to 14) + "polarities". Polarity values are vague, but each polarity can add up to 8 or 9 points in effect, depending on how expensive the mod is: Blind Rage in a V slot can save you up to 8 points (at max rank), which is the same as adding an extra 8 invisible points to your mod pool). This means that maybe you can only max out your "1" skill for everything (unless there's an exclusivity limiter ie: you can upgrade efficiency OR duration but not both), split points between shields and damage resistances, and lengthen your hacking and stamina by a few ticks as well as increase your enemy detection radius - Power, Systems, and Utilities trees respectively.

 

Does this help?

Edited December 25, 2013 by Volthorne

[NikolaiLev]

"I want the game made MY WAY, you Devs don't know what your doing!"

 

That's all I'm seeing.

 

And yet look at all the people agreeing with him, asserting that they want the game made his way too.

 

I know I'd rather play his game.

[lucio1019]

The problem is mods sharing spaces with other - often more important - mods. Taking the example of Intruder vs. Redirection: Imagine you only had one mod slot on your Frame, and you have 20 mods to pick from. You've narrowed it down to Intruder (because opening locked doors is hard for whatever reason you want to assume) and Redirection (more shields. That is all), the only problem is you've got one slot, so having both is (obviously) out of the question. Would you rather have the mod that will only be useful in certain situations or a mod that is ALWAYS useful? That is the problem with the current system, mods that might be useful in certain situations (for which there are no guarantees of happening) are bumped out of builds in favour of mods that are going to be useful 100% of the time.

 

What you're not seeing is that you get a certain number of skillpoints PER TREE.

 

 

I've underlined and bolded the important bit. This means if you wanted to, you could totally take the new Intruder stand-in skill, along with a further increase to shields every level until they're maxed. The restriction is that now you're limited to a total of 90 points (30 per "tree") instead of the current large amount (60 + (4 to 14) + "polarities". Polarity values are vague, but each polarity can add up to 8 or 9 points in effect, depending on how expensive the mod is: Blind Rage in a V slot can save you up to 8 points (at max rank), which is the same as adding an extra 8 invisible points to your mod pool). This means that maybe you can only max out your "1" skill for everything (unless there's an exclusivity limiter ie: you can upgrade efficiency OR duration but not both), split points between shields and damage resistances, and lengthen your hacking and stamina by a few ticks as well as increase your enemy detection radius - Power, Systems, and Utilities trees respectively.

 

Does this help?

 

 

This is a long quote.

Here is the problem:

 

So, according to you, there are CERTAIN points per tree. Player still HAVE TO choose between mods, right?

Therefore:

In the system now, I can ignore power mods and go all the way to defense mods. In his propose, I CANNOT do that, unless THERE IS NOT MODS/SKILL TO PICK.

 

So, people in warframe are complaining about have to pick between mods to fit in the slot. When one person propose the idea "to take away the freedom to pick mods," suddenly, everyone is happy.

In this logic, it will be better for your if your parents tell you what to do in the every second and you will be happy.

[Volthorne]

This is a long quote.

Here is the problem:

 

So, according to you, there are CERTAIN points per tree. Player still HAVE TO choose between mods, right?

Therefore:

In the system now, I can ignore power mods and go all the way to defense mods. In his propose, I CANNOT do that, unless THERE IS NOT MODS/SKILL TO PICK.

 

So, people in warframe are complaining about have to pick between mods to fit in the slot. When one person propose the idea "to take away the freedom to pick mods," suddenly, everyone is happy.

In this logic, it will be better for your if your parents tell you what to do in the every second and you will be happy.

I see you still don't quite understand. Each tree would be equivalent to having a level 30 Frame without polarities or supercharge, and a number of mod slots equal to the number of upgrades in the tree (as I understand it, it's less of a tree and more of a conglomerate of comparable skills, you wouldn't HAVE to invest points in Redirection to unlock Fast Deflection, for example - correct me if I'm wrong, tGZ). Now, whether or not you want to fill ALL of those mod slots with low-rank mods, or have a few really strong ones is up to you.

 

And he's not proposing to "take away the freedom to pick mods". He's giving us the freedom to bring extras that we want without impacting our defense or offense. To put it in a GOOD analogy, we'd be getting the option to add cup-holders to a car without being forced to lose the airbags or 100 horsepower. What your analogy (parents telling us what to do at every second) deals with is micromanagement, which is an entirely different concept.