DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) To start I have played Chroma a lot, 797 hours in time played with 67.3% usage on Chroma prime; with him being both the first frame and prime I crafted. In the modern era of the game he feels lacking as many of us agree upon, and have forwarded suggestions on potential fixes to his kit. So I'm here to add onto that ever growing pile and hopefully present a decent dish. *Current Ability Stats* (Prime) (Max) Spoiler Passive Wings sprout for an additional jump and bullet jump Spectral Scream Exhale a deep breath of elemental destruction. tap to cycle though elements, hold to cast. The chosen element applies to all of Chroma's abilities. Drain - 10 Drain per second - 3 Damage per second - 400 Range - 10m Status Chance - 100% Spread Range - 10m Elemental Ward Depending on Chroma's elemental alignment, an offensive area-of-effect is created. Chroma and his nearby allies are imbued with defensive energy. Drain - 50 Radius - 12m Duration - 25s Heat 55% health increase Damage per second - 100 Status Chance - 10% Electricity 30% shield increase 25% status chance 10x reflect damage multiplier (?) Radius - 10m Toxin Holster damage - 35% Holster damage duration - 3s Reload speed - 135% Status Chance - 50% Cold 145% armor Increase 3x reflect damage multiplier 25% status chance Vex Armor When shields are hit, Chroma's armor grows stronger, when health takes a hit, weapon damage increases Drain - 75 Duration - 25s Radius - 18m Armor increase - 350% Damage increase - 275% Effigy Chroma turns his pelt into a massive sentry that strengthens nearby allies and engulfs enemies in elemental attacks. Drain - 50 Drain per second - 10 Damage - 400 Sentry Health - 8,000 Nearby credit pickup multiplier - 2x Chance for credit pickup multiplier - 60% Movement speed increase - 20% Armor Reduction - 50% The problems of this kit are well known so I will quickly mention them here Spectral Scream Aim is jank, and annoying to use Damage is far to low to be of use above your weapons One damage tick a second, of a single instance of damage, on a channeled ability, constantly draining Three energy a second God awful range scaling Elemental Ward Only Fire and Cold are consistently used by players Very slow damage tick rate Not every tick procs status Majority of its buffs are not worth using Vex Armor His best and only good ability With the current kill per second of today; the need to get through all your shields + wait for the shield gate means that getting to health damage to gain its full affect is an annoyance Bad old GUI, have to look at both my buffs and my ability bar for its information Effigy Strips half your armor on a tank frame that is built around armor, only to gain a mediocre sentry and a flat non-scaling 20% speed boost; not worth it Obscene energy drain Low damage Subsume slot The credit multiplier works strangely as it targets any credits that are on the ground and in its radius and rolls to double them. Chance for credit multiplier does not scale with power strength I don't want to really change how he plays, but rather update his abilities to feel closer to how modern frames function. Old values denoted as (Crossed out text like this) Passive 5% more damage per primary status afflicting the target (20%) Spectral Scream Drain - 25, scales with efficiency Change it to a single cast, 10m cone of the chosen element, length and width scale with range Base Status Chance for all elements - 75%, scales with strength Aoe area lingers for 10s, scales with duration (Moved to Augment) Damage - 400 Keep element swap here Elemental Ward All wards Drain - 50, scales with efficiency Duration - 25s, scales with duration Radius - 15m, scales with range Ward updates when a new element is chosen Previous ward selected lingers for 1/3 of Elemental Ward's remaining duration, new element is selected by staying on an element for more then 1 second Only two wards can be active at a time 100% status chance and ticks 1-2 times a second Heat 55% health increase, scales with strength Health Regeneration per sec - 10%, scales with strength Enemies killed by heat damage have a 50% chance to drop health orbs Electricity 30% shield increase, scales with strength Shield recharge delay - 15%, scales with strength (Shield Recharge) Critical damage multiplier - 3x, scales with strength (10x) Toxin General speed boost Reload speed - 135%, scales with strength Parkour speed - 20% Melee Speed - 50%, scales with strength Cold Damage reduction - 30%, scales with strength Damage reflection - 5x, scales with strength Vex Armor Drain - 75, scales with efficiency Duration - 25s, scales with duration Radius - 18m, scales with range Scorn and Fury are moved to a two segmented Vex Bar Scorn builds for the first 50% of the bar while Fury takes up the second The Vex Bar builds from any damage taken If duration runs out the Vex Bar decays quickly, scales with duration Armor increase - 350%, scales with strength Damage increase - 275%, scales with strength While Vex Armor is active, Chroma gains an additional jump and bullet jump Effigy Drain - 50, scales with efficiency Drain per second - 10, scales with duration Uses a moddable Exalted Beam Weapon, or Effigy itself is moddable(Damage - 1,200, scales with strength) Sentry health is calculated based on nearby enemies (Sentry health - 8,000, scales with strength) Range - 20m, scales with range Credit multiplier for allies in sentry range - 2x Chance for credit multiplier - 60%, scales with strength Movement speed increase - 20%, scales with strength The Effigy acts as a conduit of Vex Armor and Elemental Ward's auras When the Vex Bar is at maximum value, Chroma may hold-cast to possesses Effigy; gaining a Exalted Beam Weapon and refreshing double jump on kills; This form drains the Vex Bar (slowed by duration) and pauses the values of Scorn and Fury for the duration of possession, ending when the bar runs out. Effigy mode may be activated regardless of if Effigy is summoned. Taking fatal damage in Effigy mode puts Chroma's 4th on a short cooldown scaling inversely with duration With the changes I have forwarded; Chroma's augments don't need to be changed much themselves; Other then Afterburn. [Afterburn] - Creates a zone of status afflicting elements for 12s, scales with duration [Everlasting Ward - Allies that leave the radius will retain the effect for 100% of the remaining duration and the status aura at half radius New Augments [Chromatic Scream] - Spectral Scream will now apply each possible Status Effect with every instance of damage with a 75% chance. scales with strength - MarakViri [Chaotic Ward] - Recast to expel Elemental Ward to clear all selected elemental statuses and deal 500 damage per primary status stack cleared to all enemies within 120% of radius, replaces defensive bonuses; scales with Vex Armor and passive - MarakViri [Guardian Effigy] - Effigy follows Chroma as a sentinel instead of acting as a sentry Edited March 12 by DarkBlueSeaDragon Deliberation on numbers with MarakViri | Grammer, Spelling, and clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Okay, so I'm going to start by stating that I am by no means whatsoever an expert regarding the usage of Chroma. In fact, the only time I use him is for my Profit-Taker Credit Farming, and that was only because of the unique interaction the drop has with his Effigy ability (otherwise I would probably have gone for either Saryn or Volt, for full elemental coverage. That said, understand that I am approaching this more from the theoretical side of understanding rather than the practical inn regards to portions of his kit, though the practical experience is still present (though almost certainly lacking, especially in comparison to your own). Passive - Dragon's Flight So, we pretty much all agree that this passive is essentially useless for actual gameplay synergies and overall utility. While it does have a few niche uses, it's only real utility was the synergy it had with [Exodia Contagion], which was removed back in 2021 in Update 30.5. Because of this, this is a mostly forgotten passive (quite literally, as I ran Profit Taker with Chroma Prime not even thirty minutes ago, and I forgot he had this passive until I read this post). Your proposed change, if I am understanding it correctly, is to have him have a sort of [Condition Overload] / [Galvanised Shot] type effect, but only for ETCH Status Types (Electric, Toxin, Cold, Heat), which would cap at 80%, which would have inbuilt synergy with your proposed changes to Spectral Scream, as well as Elemental Ward. If my understanding is correct, then this is actually a very powerful passive. Possibly too powerful, although that may depend on whether this additional damage is additive (such as [Condition Overload] / [Galvanized Shot] / [Galvanized Aptitude] / [Galvanized Savvy]), and therefore additive with Vex Armor (which lowers the effective damage quite a bit, which balances it out a bit by proxy, or as a Final Multiplier, in which case the number needs to go way down, but would result in more actual synergy with Vex Armor. Ability 1 : Spectral Scream Yep, a garbage ability. The only reason this isn't the Subsumable replacement in every Chroma build is that the elemental cycling provides more utility than the entirety of Effigy in most situations. Your proposed changes are, again if I am reading this correctly, altering this from a Channelled Ability to an Instance on Cast ability, with a scaling cone (I'm assuming 90 degrees) with a ten meter range, a good status chance (hitting 100% with a Power Strength of 143%, and presumably scaling above that, even if it is currently locked at 100%), and some kind of lingering effect (I'm imagining something like [Ice Wave Impedance]). I'm not sure if your lack of damage listing implies a lack of change, or just that you didn't think of one, so I'm going to assume the prior. Given the general playstyle of Chroma being an Ability Strength monster, this would be great for applying ETCH Status', which would give him some synergy with, in addition to his own passive of course, three of the Archon mods in [Archon Continuity], [Archon Stretch], and [Archon Vitality], which is nice to see. You could honestly tune down the Status Chance fairly safely, as it's rare to see a Chroma with anything approaching a full build having less than 200% Ability Strength, especially if this caps at 100%. And the damage does seem fairly decent if used with the full effect of his new passive, but doing so would cost you 100 energy to achieve, with another 25 energy to receive the full damage, which seems ... too high of an energy cost, especially when his un-modded energy pool is 225/300, but the energy cost of the ability itself is obviously fine. Perhaps having Spectral Scream receive some kind of further increased damage for Status' on the target? You also listed "AoE area lingers for 10s, scales with duration". I'm not entirely certain as to whether this is a damaging area (like Thermal Sunder) or solely for Status application ([Ice Wave Impedance]). Also, how does this lingering field calculate it's damage/status? Does it attack enemies on the area once per second or once per tick? How do overlapping fields work? These logistical issues prevent me from fully supporting this particular change, even though its better than the current implementation. You also stated that you weren't suire what to do with the [Afterburn] augment, so I propose this (which may be a functionally required mod); Augment Mod : Chromatic Scream | Spectral Scream Augment: Spectral Scream will now apply each possible Status Effect with every instance of damage with a (15/30/50/75)% chance. This would make it far better at spreading Status Effects for the synergy with the Passive, thus amplifying its own damage to maximum instantly, while still retaining the elemental cycling required for Elemental Ward. Ability 2 : Elemental Ward Okay, so mostly just buffs all around. A slight increase in range, though you've added the possibility of having all four elements active at once if I'm reading it correctly, which I disagree with from a theoretical position (though my actual gamer side giggled a bit), so I'd suggest removing the lingering of the previous ward. You could (if you wanted to go this route), have Chroma have his own unique HUD feature, that is divided into four sections depicting which Ward(s) are active, and allowing the ability to be recast, adding the newly selected element to the existing ward and refreshing the timer (but potentially reducing the overall duration by maybe 1/5th for each additional element). This would allow you to have all elements active at once for an initial investment of 200 energy, and upkeep of an additional 50 energy every 10 seconds at base stats, or have just a single element active for the full 25, or two for 20 seconds, or three for 15 seconds. If it did go this way, I'd suggest a Hold-Cast to disperse your Ward and apply a Status on all enemies within a larger range based on the element(s) you had equipped at maybe 4 stacks each, so having all four wards would allow you to rapidly hit all nearby enemies with 4 stacks of ETCH Status, and then deal a large amount of damage to them. The area for this would obviously have to be larger than the actual radius of the ability though ... maybe 1.5x or 2.0x the range? Onto the actual elements. Heat retaining its 55% BaseHP multiplier is good (this is the element I use for Profit Taker personally, which I know isn't the meta). Health Regen seems decent, and certainly synergises with this well (finally not outclassed by the Vitality Mote). The Health Orb drop is interesting, and certainly synergises well ... but I was honestly expecting this to be aa "enemies kileld while affected by Heat Status" rather than outright Heat Damage. But, since that would require a lot of tuning down,. so maybe this is better. Electricity Ward is lackluster from the defensive perspective, as Shield Recharge Delay would probably be better than Shield Recharge itself, but the offensive potential of this is obscenely high. Like, ridiculous, especially since this is a Helminth ability, and this guy has his passive damage amplifier and Vex Armor. I'd recommend dropping that a bit (maybe to 3x) Toxin Ward is pretty much always neglected, but I can certainly see this being useful, especially if multiple wards can be active at once, as the Reload and Melee Attack Speed increases are huge to his overall DPS with the correct weapons. Cold Ward is, as always, very defensive. I am curious ... would the redirected damage be purely redirected, or converted to cold for synergy with [Archon Flow]? I'm guessing the mechanic would stay as is, but still. Ability 3 : Vex Armor Firstly, I think you meant "scales with Efficiency" here (and with Effigy), so I'm going to assume that's what you said. Duration and Radius are fine, but the Vex Bar is interesting. Could be implemented in the HUD, both with or without my Elemental Ward suggestion too. But I'm not entirely certain as to what you mean by it. Is it damage dealt or damage taken that increases the Vex Bar? I'm going to guess taken, but it could be either (or both), so I felt the need to ask. I do like the decay feature, but does it decay or instantly delete when exposed to Nullification? Back to the bar however, I'm reading this as a straight percentage bar, possibly segmented, wherein the first 50% of increased effectiveness from damage all goes to Scorn, regardless of whether than is Shield or Health damage (assuming it's referring to incoming damage as it does currently), and the latter 50% increases the Fury buff. This seems fine, honestly. Would prevent you getting one-shot trying to re-gain your Fury because a Nullifier decided to ninja you. I also like the inclusion of his previous passive here, but I'm reading this as, effectively, two more jumps (both a regular jump (aka the triple jump), and then another Bullet Jump?), which seems excessive. Ability 4 : Effigy The only things here that I would care to see listed you have done so for. The Credit Chance having scaling is nice (and something I really wish he had now, ass my RNG is atrocious (104 Profit Taker runs, only 6 of which gave the doubled credits)). Effigy being affected by Elemental Ward and Vex Armour is great (especially if he also provides them to allies, regardless of how far away Chroma himself is, acting as a sort of Conduit). That said, I'm uncertain as to your final suggestion, wherein Effigy becomes, effectively, an Exalted Warframe, but draining the Vex Armor seems decent, but that leaves the question of "Does this prevent Vex Armor from generating more Scorn/Fury"? As a final suggestion, maybe have the Sentry Health scale akin to Iron Skin or possibly the soon to be updated Decoy, as 8000 is not great, even with armor (there's a reason why Shield Gate is king). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 (edited) Quote So, we pretty much all agree that this passive is essentially useless for actual gameplay synergies and overall utility. While it does have a few niche uses, it's only real utility was the synergy it had with [Exodia Contagion], which was removed back in 2021 in Update 30.5. Because of this, this is a mostly forgotten passive (quite literally, as I ran Profit Taker with Chroma Prime not even thirty minutes ago, and I forgot he had this passive until I read this post). Your proposed change, if I am understanding it correctly, is to have him have a sort of [Condition Overload] / [Galvanised Shot] type effect, but only for ETCH Status Types (Electric, Toxin, Cold, Heat), which would cap at 80%, which would have inbuilt synergy with your proposed changes to Spectral Scream, as well as Elemental Ward. If my understanding is correct, then this is actually a very powerful passive. Possibly too powerful, although that may depend on whether this additional damage is additive (such as [Condition Overload] / [Galvanized Shot] / [Galvanized Aptitude] / [Galvanized Savvy]), and therefore additive with Vex Armor (which lowers the effective damage quite a bit, which balances it out a bit by proxy, or as a Final Multiplier, in which case the number needs to go way down, but would result in more actual synergy with Vex Armor. Yes, you would be correct in seeing this as a light [Condition Overload] that only applies to ETCH I will say that I myself am not very versed in damage calculations so a 20% seemed alright, but if that is to high them maybe a 5-10% Quote Your proposed changes are, again if I am reading this correctly, altering this from a Channelled Ability to an Instance on Cast ability, with a scaling cone (I'm assuming 90 degrees) with a ten meter range, a good status chance (hitting 100% with a Power Strength of 143%, and presumably scaling above that, even if it is currently locked at 100%), and some kind of lingering effect (I'm imagining something like [Ice Wave Impedance]). I'm not sure if your lack of damage listing implies a lack of change, or just that you didn't think of one, so I'm going to assume the prior. You also listed "AoE area lingers for 10s, scales with duration". I'm not entirely certain as to whether this is a damaging area (like Thermal Sunder) or solely for Status application ([Ice Wave Impedance]). Also, how does this lingering field calculate it's damage/status? Does it attack enemies on the area once per second or once per tick? How do overlapping fields work? You also stated that you weren't suire what to do with the [Afterburn] augment, so I propose this (which may be a functionally required mod); Augment Mod : Chromatic Scream | Spectral Scream Augment: Spectral Scream will now apply each possible Status Effect with every instance of damage with a (15/30/50/75)% chance. This would make it far better at spreading Status Effects for the synergy with the Passive, thus amplifying its own damage to maximum instantly, while still retaining the elemental cycling required for Elemental Ward. You are correct in the changes you listed for the ability itself, and it would hopefully scale beyond 100% to proc more then 1 status at a time The lingering area would be solely for status application, and if there is already a precedent for the lingering area to be an augment like [Ice Wave Impedance] then that could be the new [Afterburn] This idea for an augment is beautiful, but are the chances in the order of elements you've selected? I wasn't intending for the zones to mix as to keep Chroma within ETCH Quote Okay, so mostly just buffs all around. A slight increase in range, though you've added the possibility of having all four elements active at once if I'm reading it correctly, which I disagree with from a theoretical position (though my actual gamer side giggled a bit), so I'd suggest removing the lingering of the previous ward. You could (if you wanted to go this route), have Chroma have his own unique HUD feature, that is divided into four sections depicting which Ward(s) are active, and allowing the ability to be recast, adding the newly selected element to the existing ward and refreshing the timer (but potentially reducing the overall duration by maybe 1/5th for each additional element). This would allow you to have all elements active at once for an initial investment of 200 energy, and upkeep of an additional 50 energy every 10 seconds at base stats, or have just a single element active for the full 25, or two for 20 seconds, or three for 15 seconds. If it did go this way, I'd suggest a Hold-Cast to disperse your Ward and apply a Status on all enemies within a larger range based on the element(s) you had equipped at maybe 4 stacks each, so having all four wards would allow you to rapidly hit all nearby enemies with 4 stacks of ETCH Status, and then deal a large amount of damage to them. The area for this would obviously have to be larger than the actual radius of the ability though ... maybe 1.5x or 2.0x the range? Onto the actual elements. Heat retaining its 55% BaseHP multiplier is good (this is the element I use for Profit Taker personally, which I know isn't the meta). Health Regen seems decent, and certainly synergises with this well (finally not outclassed by the Vitality Mote). The Health Orb drop is interesting, and certainly synergises well ... but I was honestly expecting this to be aa "enemies kileld while affected by Heat Status" rather than outright Heat Damage. But, since that would require a lot of tuning down,. so maybe this is better. Electricity Ward is lackluster from the defensive perspective, as Shield Recharge Delay would probably be better than Shield Recharge itself, but the offensive potential of this is obscenely high. Like, ridiculous, especially since this is a Helminth ability, and this guy has his passive damage amplifier and Vex Armor. I'd recommend dropping that a bit (maybe to 3x) Toxin Ward is pretty much always neglected, but I can certainly see this being useful, especially if multiple wards can be active at once, as the Reload and Melee Attack Speed increases are huge to his overall DPS with the correct weapons. Cold Ward is, as always, very defensive. I am curious ... would the redirected damage be purely redirected, or converted to cold for synergy with [Archon Flow]? I'm guessing the mechanic would stay as is, but still. I noticed after sleeping on this that I did not say that it only saves the last one, for a max of two at a time. I was intending for the aoe damage auras to function primarily as a status primer with a tiny bit of dps to it , being a constant stream of procs around Chroma; the components are there for it its just needs a buff Heat - With how many mobs will be affected by heat status the printing press of orbs seems much, but with how [Lycanth's Hunt] works it might be to weak, but its 1 out of like 12 buffs this can give so I think it works Electricity - Forgot delay and recharge are two different stats, delay would be better; the 10x critical multiplier is a large nugget of salt from when i first read the ability stats and how poorly it was explained, a scaling 3x would be incredible on its own Toxin - The reload speed is great on the current kit but is overshadowed by everything else so I was hoping to give some reason to have it active, and the melee speed was that answer with the parkour speed to push it to 3 buffs Cold - With the aura constantly making cold procs and a minor amount of cold dps, it would likely be purely redirected Quote Ability 3 : Vex Armor Firstly, I think you meant "scales with Efficiency" here (and with Effigy), so I'm going to assume that's what you said. Duration and Radius are fine, but the Vex Bar is interesting. Could be implemented in the HUD, both with or without my Elemental Ward suggestion too. But I'm not entirely certain as to what you mean by it. Is it damage dealt or damage taken that increases the Vex Bar? I'm going to guess taken, but it could be either (or both), so I felt the need to ask. I do like the decay feature, but does it decay or instantly delete when exposed to Nullification? Back to the bar however, I'm reading this as a straight percentage bar, possibly segmented, wherein the first 50% of increased effectiveness from damage all goes to Scorn, regardless of whether than is Shield or Health damage (assuming it's referring to incoming damage as it does currently), and the latter 50% increases the Fury buff. This seems fine, honestly. Would prevent you getting one-shot trying to re-gain your Fury because a Nullifier decided to ninja you. I also like the inclusion of his previous passive here, but I'm reading this as, effectively, two more jumps (both a regular jump (aka the triple jump), and then another Bullet Jump?), which seems excessive. Yes, I did make a typo there The Vex Bar would take up the area that the current elemental selection wheel, with the wheel moving up above it or into the Gui of the bar Damage taken, I didn't clarify that at all. as the nullify removes the buff maintaining the bar it would start to decay. Correct! That is how is passive is currently phrased on his abilities, I currently have two bullet jumps and one normal jump or just two normal jumps in current kit, its a bit wonk with how it functions ( A total of 2 bullet jumps, one more jump, roll, and aim-glide for maximum airtime!) Quote Ability 4 : Effigy The only things here that I would care to see listed you have done so for. The Credit Chance having scaling is nice (and something I really wish he had now, ass my RNG is atrocious (104 Profit Taker runs, only 6 of which gave the doubled credits)). Effigy being affected by Elemental Ward and Vex Armour is great (especially if he also provides them to allies, regardless of how far away Chroma himself is, acting as a sort of Conduit). That said, I'm uncertain as to your final suggestion, wherein Effigy becomes, effectively, an Exalted Warframe, but draining the Vex Armor seems decent, but that leaves the question of "Does this prevent Vex Armor from generating more Scorn/Fury"? As a final suggestion, maybe have the Sentry Health scale akin to Iron Skin or possibly the soon to be updated Decoy, as 8000 is not great, even with armor (there's a reason why Shield Gate is king). Make him the money man! And that is some atrocious luck, to get the double I know we have to put effigy next to its back right leg, and that it almost never works when on a slope. The effigy inheriting the auras of Vex Armor and Elemental Ward would give them to allies Kinda? was thinking like a different flavor of Sevagoth's [Exalted Shadow] one that only has a beam weapon and Chroma's abilities to use and not its own whole kit, like a weird form of Excalibur's [Exalted Blade]; another thing on this that you didn't mention was the flightspeed, I was thinking like a 0.2 archwing speed or whatever doesn't feel to wall slammy, not looking to make another Titania. For the health, maybe how decoy will work as when would the Ironskin-like buff build after cast, or would it be during cast? Edited March 8 by DarkBlueSeaDragon lack of context in the last sentence (Ironskin-like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 25 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Yes, you would be correct in seeing this as a light [Condition Overload] that only applies to ETCH I will say that I myself am not very versed in damage calculations so a 20% seemed alright, but if that is to high them maybe a 5-10% Depending on its implementation. If it's Base, then 20% is fine, but it becomes exponentially weaker in effect the more Power Strength you have due to it being additive with Vex Armor. If it's Final, then 5% per would be better, stacking uo to 20% instead of 80%, because otherwise it would basically double all damage if they have all 4 ETCH status effects, after even crit multipliers. An easier way of understanding this, possibly, is with a damage calc. Let's say you have a Fury buff of 250%, your weapon damage is 100, and they have 3 ETCH status effects. Base would be : 100 × (1+2.5+(0.2×3)) = 410 Damage Final would be : (100 × (1+2.5) × (1+(0.2×3)) = 560 damage And that's before Critical Multipliers. 32 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: You are correct in the changes you listed for the ability itself, and it would hopefully scale beyond 100% to proc more then 1 status at a time The lingering area would be solely for status application, and if there is already a precedent for the lingering area to be an augment like [Ice Wave Impedance] then that could be the new [Afterburn] This idea for an augment is beautiful, but are the chances in the order of elements you've selected? I wasn't intending for the zones to mix as to keep Chroma within ETCH Yeah, I assumed it would scale past 100%, but thought it was best to be sure of your idea instead of assuming. Hmm, making this have its own Impedance instead of integrating it into the base ability could work. Well yes, I though to. But you misunderstood the values. That was for the mod rank. At its maximum rank, there would be a 75% chance of applying all the status effects when you apply a status effect with the ability. Basically, you cap this at 100% with 143% Strength, and every ETCH status gets applied whenever Spectral Scream applies a Status effect. So, if you had the Strength to set the base status chance of the ability at 200% (which is 267% Strength), then you would have a 100% chance of applying 2 stacks of all 4 ETCH Status with each tick. Making this mutually exclusive with the lingering effect by turning them both into augments would probably be better. Also, a minor misunderstanding on that. I didn't mean "would two lingering fields combine to form Gas, Magnetic, etc", but more of a "If you had a heat field and a cold field occupying the same space, would it rapidly apply both status effects individually, or would the two fields combine (possibly becoming larger or lasting longer/having the duration refreshed), and applying all imposed ETCH status effects, allowing you to permanently maintain a 4 element status field?". 39 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: I noticed after sleeping on this that I did not say that it only saves the last one, for a max of two at a time. I was intending for the aoe damage auras to function primarily as a status primer with a tiny bit of dps to it , being a constant stream of procs around Chroma; the components are there for it its just needs a buff Ahhh, that makes more sense. Sad, but far more balanced haha. I would still argue for needing a recast to apply the new element personally, allowing you to set, say Cold Ward but use Toxin Breath, to apply multiple different status effects for the passive, without the Ward shifting to match your breath. 41 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: The Vex Bar would take up the area that the current elemental selection wheel, with the wheel moving up above it or into the Gui of the bar Damage taken, I didn't clarify that at all. as the nullify removes the buff maintaining the bar it would start to decay. Correct! That is how is passive is currently phrased on his abilities, I currently have two bullet jumps and one normal jump or just two normal jumps in current kit, its a bit wonk with how it functions ( A total of 2 bullet jumps, one more jump, roll, and aim-glide for maximum airtime!) I forgot that GUI was there honestly (my current subsume on my PT Build is his first). Damage taken makes sense. Would work well with his upcoming augment too. Removing the distinction between shield and health is also nice. Nullifying causing the decay to start (at an accelerated rate most likely) seems like the best way, honestly. Huh. Again, I forgot about his passive, but that seems ... poorly designed. Warframe Spaghetti Code I guess. 43 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Make him the money man! And that is some atrocious luck, to get the double I know we have to put effigy next to its back right leg, and that it almost never works when on a slope. The effigy inheriting the auras of Vex Armor and Elemental Ward would give them to allies Kinda? was thinking like a different flavor of Sevagoth's [Exalted Shadow] one that only has a beam weapon and Chroma's abilities to use and not its own whole kit, like a weird form of Excalibur's [Exalted Blade]; another thing on this that you didn't mention was the flightspeed, I was thinking like a 0.2 archwing speed or whatever doesn't feel to wall slammy, not looking to make another Titania. For the health, maybe how decoy will work as when would the buff build after cast, or would it be during cast? Indeed, my RNG for that is horrendous. I mean, I have it down to a few minutes solo, so I don't mind all that much, but it's still annoying (especially when Ninja Nullifiers cancel my abilities). Conduit Effigy alone has some playstyle versatility. Could be interesting. Not sure how much use it would get here, unless "dying" in this state just reverted you back to normal or something, to give it some inbuilt death protection or something. The flight speed would need to be playtested, but yeah. No Dragon Faceplanting please. Probably scale based on the HP of nearby enemies upon cast, the same as Decoy, since the code is already there, and/or give it a damage absorption phase, but let allies attack it as well (since we have Vex Armor boosts), to let its HP climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 5 hours ago, MarakViri said: Depending on its implementation. If it's Base, then 20% is fine, but it becomes exponentially weaker in effect the more Power Strength you have due to it being additive with Vex Armor. If it's Final, then 5% per would be better, stacking uo to 20% instead of 80%, because otherwise it would basically double all damage if they have all 4 ETCH status effects, after even crit multipliers. An easier way of understanding this, possibly, is with a damage calc. Let's say you have a Fury buff of 250%, your weapon damage is 100, and they have 3 ETCH status effects. Base would be : 100 × (1+2.5+(0.2×3)) = 410 Damage Final would be : (100 × (1+2.5) × (1+(0.2×3)) = 560 damage And that's before Critical Multipliers. I agree it should be final, 5% looks better for a passive given the calculations you've provided 5 hours ago, MarakViri said: Yeah, I assumed it would scale past 100%, but thought it was best to be sure of your idea instead of assuming. Hmm, making this have its own Impedance instead of integrating it into the base ability could work. Well yes, I though to. But you misunderstood the values. That was for the mod rank. At its maximum rank, there would be a 75% chance of applying all the status effects when you apply a status effect with the ability. Basically, you cap this at 100% with 143% Strength, and every ETCH status gets applied whenever Spectral Scream applies a Status effect. So, if you had the Strength to set the base status chance of the ability at 200% (which is 267% Strength), then you would have a 100% chance of applying 2 stacks of all 4 ETCH Status with each tick. Making this mutually exclusive with the lingering effect by turning them both into augments would probably be better. Also, a minor misunderstanding on that. I didn't mean "would two lingering fields combine to form Gas, Magnetic, etc", but more of a "If you had a heat field and a cold field occupying the same space, would it rapidly apply both status effects individually, or would the two fields combine (possibly becoming larger or lasting longer/having the duration refreshed), and applying all imposed ETCH status effects, allowing you to permanently maintain a 4 element status field?". Mod rank, gotcha. all four at once sounds very strong, but not nearly as strong as a lot of other status abilities. Afterburn may not go into the bin after all if it takes the status field, although it should get 12s of duration to form a class of augments with Impedance There are three ways we could take it 1, the new field deletes the old one. 2, they sit atop one another and don't interact. Or 3, they combine, get larger and refresh duration with any additional status effects. I personally think 3 would be the most fun. 5 hours ago, MarakViri said: Ahhh, that makes more sense. Sad, but far more balanced haha. I would still argue for needing a recast to apply the new element personally, allowing you to set, say Cold Ward but use Toxin Breath, to apply multiple different status effects for the passive, without the Ward shifting to match your breath. If it is still needed to recast the ward to gain the buffs, I'd argue that it would need to be recastable without waiting for its duration to run out. I was thinking of the ward being his primary status dealer, quickly shifting between elements without spending energy. The buffs give reason to use wards other then what the status effect itself can provide. I don't think either of us brought up weather allies get the previous aura, I don't think they should, but I'd be willing to change my opinion on that. 6 hours ago, MarakViri said: I forgot that GUI was there honestly (my current subsume on my PT Build is his first). Damage taken makes sense. Would work well with his upcoming augment too. Removing the distinction between shield and health is also nice. Nullifying causing the decay to start (at an accelerated rate most likely) seems like the best way, honestly. Huh. Again, I forgot about his passive, but that seems ... poorly designed. Warframe Spaghetti Code I guess. LOL, truly a forgettable ability! On his new augment, I've heard that Chroma won't take fatal damage from it; is that true? Keep Nullifiers on the top of the hit list lol. I do agree that accelerated is best. looks weird on paper, plays really well; it feels like flying without flying 6 hours ago, MarakViri said: Indeed, my RNG for that is horrendous. I mean, I have it down to a few minutes solo, so I don't mind all that much, but it's still annoying (especially when Ninja Nullifiers cancel my abilities). Conduit Effigy alone has some playstyle versatility. Could be interesting. Not sure how much use it would get here, unless "dying" in this state just reverted you back to normal or something, to give it some inbuilt death protection or something. The flight speed would need to be playtested, but yeah. No Dragon Faceplanting please. Probably scale based on the HP of nearby enemies upon cast, the same as Decoy, since the code is already there, and/or give it a damage absorption phase, but let allies attack it as well (since we have Vex Armor boosts), to let its HP climb. Hope these fixes get in and solve that! Absolutely! If Chroma does die in effigy state then I think that his 4th should go on a cool down, base 60s affected by companion recovery mods on equipped companions. As the player would be full sized it would be very cramped in most maps so it needs to go slow, but maybe have a huge sprint boost or long charge similar to guided effigy; with the augment bringing the charge the the sentry. Hp of nearby enemies, as I think as letting players shoot it will make it unkillable; remember how chunky his dps could be with this kit. (scaling crit boost + Vex Armor + mini condition overload, all before mods and allies). I have heard of people talking about effigy being a sentinel instead, I personally think that it would work well as a new augment for Chroma with this new kit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 53 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: I agree it should be final, 5% looks better for a passive given the calculations you've provided Yeah, having it cap at 20% instead of start there feels more like a passive. Especially since the upcoming Eclipse change is basically this exact passive, but at 30% ... offensively, at least. Both of those calculations were at 20%, but it just shows that, as a Final multiplier, 20% per status is a bit too strong for a passive. But with Powercreep you never know. 53 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Mod rank, gotcha. all four at once sounds very strong, but not nearly as strong as a lot of other status abilities. Afterburn may not go into the bin after all if it takes the status field, although it should get 12s of duration to form a class of augments with Impedance There are three ways we could take it 1, the new field deletes the old one. 2, they sit atop one another and don't interact. Or 3, they combine, get larger and refresh duration with any additional status effects. I personally think 3 would be the most fun. I mean, it seems a bit strong, buy Citrine does this already, so it's not new, but it works better here than on her, I think. Yeah, 12 second lingering is probably best balance wise. 3 is definitely the most fun. Also requires the least micromanaging to maintain, while still allowing this to be a viable way of apply status effects to a chokepoint (or a defense target maybe). 53 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: If it is still needed to recast the ward to gain the buffs, I'd argue that it would need to be recastable without waiting for its duration to run out. I was thinking of the ward being his primary status dealer, quickly shifting between elements without spending energy. The buffs give reason to use wards other then what the status effect itself can provide. I don't think either of us brought up weather allies get the previous aura, I don't think they should, but I'd be willing to change my opinion on that. Oh ... yeah, recastable for sure. Maybe even have something happen when you do. Perhaps a surge of energy that damages enemies for a flat amount based on each status they have of the selected element? Although, that could be a nuke ability ... if enemies have all 4 ETCH Status Effects, and they have, say, 10 Stacks of Heat, and you're using Heat Ward... If you set the base damage at 500, with a 100% multiplier per stack, you could nuke, given that Heat doesn't really cap. With all four ETCH Status, and say, 8 Stacks of your wards element, you'd do; ((500 × 2⁸) × 1.2) = 153,000 damage. ... the numbers definitely need some work. And, even without his passive, that's still 127,500. Definitely needs a lower multiplier (or maybe just not an exponential increase). But the ward being the primary status dealer isn't what I was envisioning. I was treating it as the status being a secondary effect, and the buffs being the main benefit. Maybe that's because I pictured his first being for status application. And yeah, I'd say that allies only get the Primary buff (the element selected at the time of cast). So it would change if they are in range/enter range when you have a new Elemental choice. 53 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: On his new augment, I've heard that Chroma won't take fatal damage from it; is that true? Keep Nullifiers on the top of the hit list lol. I do agree that accelerated is best. looks weird on paper, plays really well; it feels like flying without flying I'm not sure, but it would make sense, I suppose. I am more interested about whether or not it applies to your companion, as well as if it stops when your Vex is maxed out. Accelerated is best. Makes sense too. Huh ... interesting. Also, Hildryn wants to know your location. 53 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: If Chroma does die in effigy state then I think that his 4th should go on a cool down, base 60s affected by companion recovery mods on equipped companions. As the player would be full sized it would be very cramped in most maps so it needs to go slow, but maybe have a huge sprint boost or long charge similar to guided effigy; with the augment bringing the charge the the sentry. Hp of nearby enemies, as I think as letting players shoot it will make it unkillable; remember how chunky his dps could be with this kit. (scaling crit boost + Vex Armor + mini condition overload, all before mods and allies). I have heard of people talking about effigy being a sentinel instead, I personally think that it would work well as a new augment for Chroma with this new kit here. I'd personally go with a lower cooldown that scales inversely with Duration (it gets longer the higher your Duration) to punish you for actually dying, but this could work. Maybe modify the Kahl Jetpack? So, you get a movement speed buff on the ground, but jumping and holding jump let's you aim-glide with 99% reduced gravity for a huge chunk of time (like, 60 seconds of airtime), refreshing on jumping (which you can do with the Vex Bar returned passive). Plus there would be weapon synergies with that too (like [Aerial Ace] ... Goddard that actually sounds hella fun). Yeah, HP of enemies makes more sense. Although, if you make the absorption ignore critical damage, it might work better. Or, have it also gain health according to the damage Chroma deals to enemies for the first few seconds that the Effigy is charging up. An augment to make it a sentinel-like existence would be fun. Especially it it used your Spectral Scream or something (thus benefiting from whatever Augment you have on it). Citrine also wants the sentinel effect on one of her abilities too. Both kind of deserve it. Edited March 9 by MarakViri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 26 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Yeah, having it cap at 20% instead of start there feels more like a passive. Especially since the upcoming Eclipse change is basically this exact passive, but at 30% ... offensively, at least. Both of those calculations were at 20%, but it just shows that, as a Final multiplier, 20% per status is a bit too strong for a passive. But with Powercreep you never know. Knowing that Mirage will be getting a similar passive makes me feel real good about it as a value We may need it lol. 26 minutes ago, MarakViri said: I mean, it seems a bit strong, buy Citrine does this already, so it's not new, but it works better here than on her, I think. Yeah, 12 second lingering is probably best balance wise. 3 is definitely the most fun. Also requires the least micromanaging to maintain, while still allowing this to be a viable way of apply status effects to a chokepoint (or a defense target maybe). Having a way to cc areas that he's not at for a handful will be soo good for his kit, other then the head honcho Effigy 26 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Oh ... yeah, recastable for sure. Maybe even have something happen when you do. Perhaps a surge of energy that damages enemies for a flat amount based on each status they have of the selected element? Although, that could be a nuke ability ... if enemies have all 4 ETCH Status Effects, and they have, say, 10 Stacks of Heat, and you're using Heat Ward... If you set the base damage at 500, with a 100% multiplier per stack, you could nuke, given that Heat doesn't really cap. With all four ETCH Status, and say, 8 Stacks of your wards element, you'd do; ((500 × 2⁸) × 1.2) = 153,000 damage. ... the numbers definitely need some work. And, even without his passive, that's still 127,500. Definitely needs a lower multiplier (or maybe just not an exponential increase). But the ward being the primary status dealer isn't what I was envisioning. I was treating it as the status being a secondary effect, and the buffs being the main benefit. Maybe that's because I pictured his first being for status application. And yeah, I'd say that allies only get the Primary buff (the element selected at the time of cast). So it would change if they are in range/enter range when you have a new Elemental choice. I'd think the burst would have to be something like 50-150 to be balanced. Also where does the 1.2 come from? With how quickly the aura would tick it would be ~1-2 procs per second with 2 different status on everything around you, I think that's good enough for a set "it forget it" part of the ability. When you have Everlasting Ward equipped 35 minutes ago, MarakViri said: I'm not sure, but it would make sense, I suppose. I am more interested about whether or not it applies to your companion, as well as if it stops when your Vex is maxed out. Accelerated is best. Makes sense too. Huh ... interesting. Also, Hildryn wants to know your location. I hope the Augment works with companions if that's the case. [Eternal War] stops when your maxed out so I won't have hope for it. 41 minutes ago, MarakViri said: I'd personally go with a lower cooldown that scales inversely with Duration (it gets longer the higher your Duration) to punish you for actually dying, but this could work. Maybe modify the Kahl Jetpack? So, you get a movement speed buff on the ground, but jumping and holding jump let's you aim-glide with 99% reduced gravity for a huge chunk of time (like, 60 seconds of airtime), refreshing on jumping (which you can do with the Vex Bar returned passive). Plus there would be weapon synergies with that too (like [Aerial Ace] ... Goddard that actually sounds hella fun). Yeah, HP of enemies makes more sense. Although, if you make the absorption ignore critical damage, it might work better. Or, have it also gain health according to the damage Chroma deals to enemies for the first few seconds that the Effigy is charging up. An augment to make it a sentinel-like existence would be fun. Especially it it used your Spectral Scream or something (thus benefiting from whatever Augment you have on it). Citrine also wants the sentinel effect on one of her abilities too. Both kind of deserve it. Scaling it inversely with duration sounds really cool! Or it could be a refreshed bullet jump or jump with every kill or every few kills + the massive aim glide boost; to refresh aim glide touch a wall or a floor Ignoring critical damage would help make the beast slay-able to enough mobs, but basing it off the damage Chroma (and allies) deal, ignoring crits sounds like it may be neat The sentinel would use Chroma's exalted beam weapon so it would hopefully be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 20 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Knowing that Mirage will be getting a similar passive makes me feel real good about it as a value We may need it lol. Sorry, that's my bad. They aren't (to my knowledge) touching her passive. Her Helminth ability is going to be a 30% Final Damage multiplier, is what I meant. And since Chroma can't use Eclipse without replacing Vex Armor, this works well for him. 49 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Having a way to cc areas that he's not at for a handful will be soo good for his kit, other then the head honcho Effigy Yeah. Keeping it localised to himself is great for melee, shotguns, and beam weapons, but if you want to hold a large room, your damage would drop without this. Plus zoning is fun. 50 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: I'd think the burst would have to be something like 50-150 to be balanced. Also where does the 1.2 come from? With how quickly the aura would tick it would be ~1-2 procs per second with 2 different status on everything around you, I think that's good enough for a set "it forget it" part of the ability. When you have Everlasting Ward equipped Yes, but then it feels too low for the newer players, so they wouldn't use it. It's hard to strike that balance. Maybe if I didn't have the damage apply a new hit on each proc, it would be fine (Damage would be half my calculation (roughly). The 1.2 is the 20% from his passive (four stacks of 5%). Very true. Yeah, I forget you need that sometimes. I play selfish currently for the most part, except in Chroma-boost Arbitrations, and that build hasn't been touched for over a year. 1 hour ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: I hope the Augment works with companions if that's the case. [Eternal War] stops when your maxed out so I won't have hope for it. Would be nice to boost the companion damage, even if it wouldn't work for the Diriga nuke, due to that being ability damage. And yeah, hopefully it ends at max. Don't want to be stuck at low health because the Nidus is face tanking and you're suffering because of it. 1 hour ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Scaling it inversely with duration sounds really cool! Or it could be a refreshed bullet jump or jump with every kill or every few kills + the massive aim glide boost; to refresh aim glide touch a wall or a floor Ignoring critical damage would help make the beast slay-able to enough mobs, but basing it off the damage Chroma (and allies) deal, ignoring crits sounds like it may be neat The sentinel would use Chroma's exalted beam weapon so it would hopefully be good. Yeah, I thought so. Hmm. Sounds good, but if the cooldown only applies if you die in that form, it seems odd to have things you do in that form impact that. Solely Chroma in regards to damage dealt on enemies, if that's the route taken. And on further thought I wouldn't go this, because you could spawn an Effigy with negative 2 billion health, and that's just not fun. Yeah, that sounds good. How good depends on the actual stats and viability of the weapon as well as the Targeting ai (and if you get to mod the Effigy with companions mods maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 5 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Sorry, that's my bad. They aren't (to my knowledge) touching her passive. Her Helminth ability is going to be a 30% Final Damage multiplier, is what I meant. And since Chroma can't use Eclipse without replacing Vex Armor, this works well for him. ah, unfortunate; but I still feel that its at a good spot 11 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Yes, but then it feels too low for the newer players, so they wouldn't use it. It's hard to strike that balance. Maybe if I didn't have the damage apply a new hit on each proc, it would be fine (Damage would be half my calculation (roughly). The 1.2 is the 20% from his passive (four stacks of 5%). Very true. Yeah, I forget you need that sometimes. I play selfish currently for the most part, except in Chroma-boost Arbitrations, and that build hasn't been touched for over a year. If it didn't count the number of status stacks only the type then I think it would be better before Fury is added Hope these ideas help changes that! 14 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Would be nice to boost the companion damage, even if it wouldn't work for the Diriga nuke, due to that being ability damage. And yeah, hopefully it ends at max. Don't want to be stuck at low health because the Nidus is face tanking and you're suffering because of it. Pretty sure that Scorn and Fury do affect companions now, or my Gui has been pulling my leg. Also, whats a Diriga nuke? 15 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Yeah, I thought so. Hmm. Sounds good, but if the cooldown only applies if you die in that form, it seems odd to have things you do in that form impact that. Solely Chroma in regards to damage dealt on enemies, if that's the route taken. And on further thought I wouldn't go this, because you could spawn an Effigy with negative 2 billion health, and that's just not fun. Yeah, that sounds good. How good depends on the actual stats and viability of the weapon as well as the Targeting ai (and if you get to mod the Effigy with companions mods maybe). The cooldown for the Effigy or the refresh of the jump? Agreed, like decoy it is Unless DE want's to give Khora her exalted whip, I think we can only get one of them, and I'd say the beam weapon as that's cooler, but Effigy itself may be better for Chroma's performance overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: If it didn't count the number of status stacks only the type then I think it would be better before Fury is added Hope these ideas help changes that! Fury only affects weapon damage, so it wouldn't apply to the ability-based damage of Spectral Scream or Elemental Ward or Effigy. The only part of his proposed kit that would alter ability damage would be his passive (if implemented as the text would suggest). Because of that, I tried to add some kind of innate scaling to the suggested "nuke". You could probably have Spectral Scream gain damage based on the actual number of eqch status too, but that seems a bit excessive. The idea I had in mind was basically turning the "recast" into a modified version of Expedite Suffering, wherein it consumed all the built up stacks of either the previous or the new element selected (the old would have more reliable damage, the new would encourage cycling elements), and deal damage based on the number of stacks consumed. Balancing it is a bit difficult, because I'm currently otherwise occupied (and on my phone), but the general idea I felt was solid. The execution was ... well, execution is an apt term. 1 hour ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Pretty sure that Scorn and Fury do affect companions now, or my Gui has been pulling my leg. Also, whats a Diriga nuke? So, Fury should be affecting your companions weapon damage, but will not affect the ability damage. The Diriga nuke is using the Diriga exclusive mod [Arc Coil], [Momentous Bond] (optional), and [Manifold Bond] to apply a bunch of status effects to an enemy, while using a DPS companion weapon ... actually yeah, that should work. For some reason my brain forgot that the weapon does the damage. The Hounds can do it too (and a bit better) with the [Synergized Prospectus] in place of [Arc Coil] and using the [Akaten] (for best results). 1 hour ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: The cooldown for the Effigy or the refresh of the jump? Agreed, like decoy it is Unless DE want's to give Khora her exalted whip, I think we can only get one of them, and I'd say the beam weapon as that's cooler, but Effigy itself may be better for Chroma's performance overall I'm not sure what you're asking here. The refresh on the jump requires, if I read correctly, you to have maximum Vex Bar. This doesn't work with the Effigy engagement, because it drains the Vex Bar (so it's not full), unless there's a snapshot of it in regards to this (getting it to maximum unlocks the additional jumps until the ability expires or is recast for example). The cooldown for Effigy being affected by actions performed as the Effigy, when the cooldown only applies if you die as the Effigy seems odd, unless the cooldown also applies when it expires naturally or manually. Yeah, probably the best take. Im waiting for pseudo-exalts to become moddable instead of dependant on stat sticks. But yeah, probably not. Not everyone gets the Titania treatment with multiple moddable exalts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okaazkul Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) Le 08/03/2024 à 11:51, MarakViri a dit : Passive - Dragon's Flight So, we pretty much all agree that this passive is essentially useless for actual gameplay synergies and overall utility. I never understand why people consider this a bad passive when it's a free mobility bonus. When you compare it to Loki, base Excalibur or Rhino passive, Chroma passive is very great. All passive doesn't need to help for tanking or energy sustain or damage and when Chroma has already 2 abilities for tanking, one that give the biggest base damage buff currently possible and the fact that he doesn't need a lot of sustain, you don't really need more. Edited March 9 by Okaazkul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 6 hours ago, Okaazkul said: I never understand why people consider this a bad passive when it's a free mobility bonus. When you compare it to Loki, base Excalibur or Rhino passive, Chroma passive is very great. All passive doesn't need to help for tanking or energy sustain or damage and when Chroma has already 2 abilities for tanking, one that give the biggest base damage buff currently possible and the fact that he doesn't need a lot of sustain, you don't really need more. Because it is forgettable and goes against muscle-memory. Loki has a very niche passive that is mostly rendered useless because it does nothing for him, and the features that require Wall Latching only require a few seconds of it. Excalibur is a small base damage increase for swords, and will function even if you forget about it. Rhino's is also forgettable, and also foes against muscle-memory, as we try to actively avoid getting a Hard Landing, on top of being lacklustre. Chroma's requires you to actively remember it exists in order to use it. I don't use it because I play other frames, and there is no benefit to pressing jump a third time, so I never do. When I come back to Chroma, my default parkour is so ingrained that I don't utilise it because I'm conditioned not to try to jump again. That is why it is a "useless" passive, even if it has some usability. Also, nobody said that Loki, Rhino, and Excalibur had good passives, or didn't need to change them. This is a thread about, specifically, Chroma. There's no need to try to strawman this. Are there worse passives? Yes. Does that make this a good passive? No. Could this passive also be improved? Yes. Could his kit be altered to have synergy with his passive? Also yes. Also, you're right. He does have 2 good abilities. He also has two garbage abilities that are usable only for one feature they provide, and a forgettable and non-synergetic passive. If the Elemental cycling was on Elemental Ward, nobody would ever use his first, and his fourth is pretty much used solely for credit enhancement or as a very low level chokepoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 11 hours ago, MarakViri said: Fury only affects weapon damage, so it wouldn't apply to the ability-based damage of Spectral Scream or Elemental Ward or Effigy. The only part of his proposed kit that would alter ability damage would be his passive (if implemented as the text would suggest). Because of that, I tried to add some kind of innate scaling to the suggested "nuke". You could probably have Spectral Scream gain damage based on the actual number of eqch status too, but that seems a bit excessive. The idea I had in mind was basically turning the "recast" into a modified version of Expedite Suffering, wherein it consumed all the built up stacks of either the previous or the new element selected (the old would have more reliable damage, the new would encourage cycling elements), and deal damage based on the number of stacks consumed. Balancing it is a bit difficult, because I'm currently otherwise occupied (and on my phone), but the general idea I felt was solid. The execution was ... well, execution is an apt term. In Chroma's tips tab, all of those are listed as gaining the buff, with the exception of Elemental Ward so that's just false. As Fury already does stack onto Effigy and Spectral Scream, I don't think they need additional stacking from status count. OOOH, that does seem really cool! Elemental Deathbomb 11 hours ago, MarakViri said: The Diriga nuke is using the Diriga exclusive mod [Arc Coil], [Momentous Bond] (optional), and [Manifold Bond] to apply a bunch of status effects to an enemy, while using a DPS companion weapon ... actually yeah, that should work. For some reason my brain forgot that the weapon does the damage. The Hounds can do it too (and a bit better) with the [Synergized Prospectus] in place of [Arc Coil] and using the [Akaten] (for best results). Didn't know Diriga could do that, I already have the hound so I don't have reason to get Diriga sadly if Hounds are better. 11 hours ago, MarakViri said: I'm not sure what you're asking here. The refresh on the jump requires, if I read correctly, you to have maximum Vex Bar. This doesn't work with the Effigy engagement, because it drains the Vex Bar (so it's not full), unless there's a snapshot of it in regards to this (getting it to maximum unlocks the additional jumps until the ability expires or is recast for example). The cooldown for Effigy being affected by actions performed as the Effigy, when the cooldown only applies if you die as the Effigy seems odd, unless the cooldown also applies when it expires naturally or manually. Yeah, probably the best take. Im waiting for pseudo-exalts to become moddable instead of dependant on stat sticks. But yeah, probably not. Not everyone gets the Titania treatment with multiple moddable exalts. When the Vex Bar is active, Chroma has an additional jump and bullet jump; when in Effigy, Chroma refreshes his double-jump on kills and has -99% aim glide gravity. The cooldown should only apply when killed as Effigy or when Effigy dies, recalling Effigy should only either do A. no penalty, or B, Effigy mode. Exalts need it, and Titania kinda needs both as they go into a archwing mode (size rescaling included!) 6 hours ago, Okaazkul said: I never understand why people consider this a bad passive when it's a free mobility bonus. When you compare it to Loki, base Excalibur or Rhino passive, Chroma passive is very great. All passive doesn't need to help for tanking or energy sustain or damage and when Chroma has already 2 abilities for tanking, one that give the biggest base damage buff currently possible and the fact that he doesn't need a lot of sustain, you don't really need more. I agree that it is a great passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 27 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: In Chroma's tips tab, all of those are listed as gaining the buff, with the exception of Elemental Ward so that's just false. As Fury already does stack onto Effigy and Spectral Scream, I don't think they need additional stacking from status count. OOOH, that does seem really cool! Elemental Deathbomb Just checked this. You're right. They seem to be exceptions to the "weapons only", because they don't seem to be coded to be treated as weapons (doesn't trigger Xata's anyway). Can't believe I never knew that. Not that it changes too much on his current kit. Also, the Elemental selection GUI doesn't appear in the Simulacrum if you enter / start with a Config that has it subsumed over, even if you switch to a config that has it present, unless you swap to another frame, leave the arsenal, and then reselect Chroma, have a config with Spectral Scream, and then exit the arsenal. It's a tad annoying haha. So yeah, since that works then it doesn't need that exponential climb. Maybe just a flat additive for the stack consumption. The real question in that is how does it work for DoT Status verse non-DoT? Heat, Electric, and Toxin all deal damage over time, so just consuming them and have them deal all the damage, boosted by Vex Armor, is enough of hit, I feel. But Cold doesn't. Does the Cold do something other than a Nuke, such as freezing enemies maybe, for some Cold Ward synergy with Frost in addition to being general good CC? 44 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: Didn't know Diriga could do that, I already have the hound so I don't have reason to get Diriga sadly if Hounds are better. Yeah, the Hound weapons can apply two of the IPS Status' ([Akaten] does Slash and Puncture, hence why I suggested that one), but it depends on the preference of Sentinel v Hound I guess. 45 minutes ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: When the Vex Bar is active, Chroma has an additional jump and bullet jump; when in Effigy, Chroma refreshes his double-jump on kills and has -99% aim glide gravity. The cooldown should only apply when killed as Effigy or when Effigy dies, recalling Effigy should only either do A. no penalty, or B, Effigy mode. Exalts need it, and Titania kinda needs both as they go into a archwing mode (size rescaling included!) Ahh. I thought it was only when the bar was full (which was just the Effigy embodiment thing) haha. My brain sometimes. Yeah, having it go on a long cooldown because you accidentally un-cast would suck. Maybe have the cooldown be halved when you aren't the Effigy, since you have no control over it, but that would probably be a play test thing. Yeah, they do. Exalted Weapons and Pseudo Exalts both need a touch up. I'd prefer turning Psuedo Exalts into what the current Exalts are, and giving actual Exalts access to arcanes and more mods (kinda sucks that you have a less effective weapon that drains energy), but that day is long in the future if it exists at all. And, yes, Titania does need it. Even if the Diwata is basically untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 19 minutes ago, MarakViri said: So yeah, since that works then it doesn't need that exponential climb. Maybe just a flat additive for the stack consumption. The real question in that is how does it work for DoT Status verse non-DoT? Heat, Electric, and Toxin all deal damage over time, so just consuming them and have them deal all the damage, boosted by Vex Armor, is enough of hit, I feel. But Cold doesn't. Does the Cold do something other than a Nuke, such as freezing enemies maybe, for some Cold Ward synergy with Frost in addition to being general good CC? Cold freezing everything would be neat, and we don't see freezing things very often. 28 minutes ago, MarakViri said: Yeah, having it go on a long cooldown because you accidentally un-cast would suck. Maybe have the cooldown be halved when you aren't the Effigy, since you have no control over it, but that would probably be a play test thing. Yeah, they do. Exalted Weapons and Pseudo Exalts both need a touch up. I'd prefer turning Psuedo Exalts into what the current Exalts are, and giving actual Exalts access to arcanes and more mods (kinda sucks that you have a less effective weapon that drains energy), but that day is long in the future if it exists at all. Agreed both points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 On 2024-03-08 at 2:18 AM, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: [Chaotic Ward] - Expel Elemental Ward and deal 500 damage per primary status stack afflicting all enemies in 18m, scales with Vex Armor and passive - MarakViri I do think that Elemental Ward should lose its buffs when this augment is equipped. And I have made some edits to the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) On 2024-03-08 at 6:18 PM, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: With the changes I have forwarded; Chroma's augments don't need to be changed much themselves; Other then Afterburn. [Afterburn] - Creates a zone of status afflicting elements for 12s, scales with duration [Everlasting Ward - Allies that leave the radius will retain the effect for 100% of the remaining duration and the status aura at half radius New Augments [Chromatic Scream] - Spectral Scream will now apply each possible Status Effect with every instance of damage with a 75% chance. scales with strength - MarakViri [Chaotic Ward] - Expel Elemental Ward and deal 500 damage per primary status stack afflicting all enemies in 18m, scales with Vex Armor and passive - MarakViri [Guardian Effigy] - Effigy follows Chroma as a sentinel instead of acting as a sentry I'd probably change the name of [Afterburn] to something more like [Aftermath]. given the change in function, but the effect is solid. The change to [Everlsating Ward] is also pretty good. Although, that ability might be too good here ... maybe apply a Helminth Diminish to the ability? I men, it loses its multiple elements by default, but maybe lowering the status chance? Or maybe I'm overthinking it. [Chromatic Scream] is gorgeous. Whoever designed that needs a high five. [Chaotic Ward] is also really good, and I agree that detonating the ward is probably a great idea. Maybe alter it to be ; "Hold-Cast to Expel Elemental Ward and deal 500 damage for every {primary elemental status}/{status of the same element} afflicting all enemies within 18 meters.' There's two possible options there, one following your idea and one for the initial idea, but the key point being the Hold-Cast so that it's separate from the regular cast. Of course, this doesn't list that it will consume the stacks either. Also, not sure if I'm reading it right, but would this add up all the stacks on each enemy, and deal universal damage based on that? As in, if there are four enemies in range, one has 2 stacks, one has 4 stacks, on has 6 stacks, and the last has 8 stacks, it would deal 10,000 damage to all of them? Or would it be 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 respectively? [Guardian Effigy] is also a solid augment. How would it interact with the "become effigy" bit though? Edited March 11 by MarakViri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 8 hours ago, MarakViri said: The change to [Everlsating Ward] is also pretty good. Although, that ability might be too good here ... maybe apply a Helminth Diminish to the ability? I men, it loses its multiple elements by default, but maybe lowering the status chance? Or maybe I'm overthinking it. With how much Elemental Ward is getting buffed here, a Helminth diminishing is probably required, definitely for electricity wards additive crit dmg boost. We would still have to ask which group it'll fall into, the ~50% diminished group or join mirage in the new 85% I think diminished group. 8 hours ago, MarakViri said: [Chromatic Scream] is gorgeous. Whoever designed that needs a high five. Agreed 8 hours ago, MarakViri said: [Chaotic Ward] is also really good, and I agree that detonating the ward is probably a great idea. Maybe alter it to be ; "Hold-Cast to Expel Elemental Ward and deal 500 damage for every {primary elemental status}/{status of the same element} afflicting all enemies within 18 meters.' There's two possible options there, one following your idea and one for the initial idea, but the key point being the Hold-Cast so that it's separate from the regular cast. Of course, this doesn't list that it will consume the stacks either. Also, not sure if I'm reading it right, but would this add up all the stacks on each enemy, and deal universal damage based on that? As in, if there are four enemies in range, one has 2 stacks, one has 4 stacks, on has 6 stacks, and the last has 8 stacks, it would deal 10,000 damage to all of them? Or would it be 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 respectively? I was wanting input for the cast type for the burst; Although as the burst could replace the buffs, I'm not sure it needs the hold-cast distinction. Phrasing is fun! It should consume stacks, I'll add it for clarity. You mentioned earlier in the replies that this could work as a [Expedite Suffering] but 360, based on this I'd say 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k. 8 hours ago, MarakViri said: [Guardian Effigy] is also a solid augment. How would it interact with the "become effigy" bit though? The Effigy is unsummoned in all cases to gain effigy mode to avoid such problems lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarakViri Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: With how much Elemental Ward is getting buffed here, a Helminth diminishing is probably required, definitely for electricity wards additive crit dmg boost. We would still have to ask which group it'll fall into, the ~50% diminished group or join mirage in the new 85% I think diminished group. Well, there are a few ways to tackle the whole Helminth Diminish thing for this particular ability. There's Diminished Duration, forcing other frames to recast it more frequently, and thus increasing the overall energy cost, given the nature of the ability, without actually altering the utility of the ability at all. There's Diminished Strength, where you lower the actual values of the ability, such as the status chance per tick, and the lowering of some element specific effects. Then there's Diminished Exclusion, where you straight up remove certain effects (which already happens by default in regards to the dual-ward feature and ward-cycling in general). And then there is some combination of the aforementioned effects. My personal take is a hybrid of the first two. I would suggest lowering the range, but because the new augment proposal specifically lists a range, that doesn't work, because the augment's range would still be 18 meters. Lowering the Duration from 25 to 20 seconds keeps it as a viable buff duration, and lowering the status chance from 100% to 75% or reducing some ward-specific effects. If it's the latter, I'd probably go with Health Regeneration, Critical Damage Multiplier, Melee Speed, and Damage Reflection (as well as making sure that Damage Reduction caps at something lower than the base cap (likely 90%) for the Helminth version). Lowering all of those by 50% gives you a 5% Heal per second, 1.5x Critical Multiplier, 25% Melee Attack Speed, or 2.5x Damage Reflection, which are all still very good buffs. You could also swap the Damage Reflection diminish to Damage Reduction, but I'd still stick with just reducing it's cap, probably to 75% to keep it in line with other Helminth DR methods (except {Null Star}, which is painful to run on most frames due to it's scaling anyway). 3 hours ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: I was wanting input for the cast type for the burst; Although as the burst could replace the buffs, I'm not sure it needs the hold-cast distinction. Phrasing is fun! It should consume stacks, I'll add it for clarity. You mentioned earlier in the replies that this could work as a [Expedite Suffering] but 360, based on this I'd say 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k So, it doesn't really need a Hold-Cast distinction, true. You could just rephrase the augment text to "Recast while Elemental Ward is active to expel it, consuming {all Primary Status effects}/{all status effects of the warded element} on all enemies within 18 meters, and dealing 500 damage of the expelled damage type for each stack consumed." or something. I'd also like to see some kind of effect based on the element chosen itself. Such as a Cold Expel freezing enemies for a period of time dependent on the number of Cold Procs, or Electricity linking to nearby enemies based on the number of Procs and damaging them for an equal amount, Heat causing a permanent armor strip of 1% or something for each consumed proc, and Toxin doing something thematically accurate (maybe just doing additional damage, I can't really think of anything) based on stacks consumed. Maybe in another augment, because that adds a whole new way of playing the ability, and helps it synergise with a lot of other frames. Those suggestions are obviously very rough, but the general idea is basically just unique effects based on your ward type (and possibly only triggering when you only have one element selected). 3 hours ago, DarkBlueSeaDragon said: The Effigy is unsummoned in all cases to gain effigy mode to avoid such problems lol. So, you have your Effigy Sentinel/Turret, then gain max Vex Armor, and then ... what, Hold-Cast Effigy to become it or recast it, unsummoning the Sentinel/Turret? I mean, it works, you just need a distinction between how you activate each version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlueSeaDragon Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 Post updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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