MR0 on netracell... never judge abook on the cover

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

We’re talking about no-shield modifier on the Nightmare nodes, right?

Yes. Overguard is not a shield. Than again its low enough lvl that its not an issue whatever you take. But if it was EDA lvl you would die simply because of not enough ehp.

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Warframe isn’t like Diablo because while Diablo has intrinsic stat scaling as you level, Warframe has the mod system where even something as basic as extra health comes with a literal cost in mod slot and capacity, and if you pay that cost unnecessarily you can’t fit something else that you could be using for the content that doesn’t need the extra health.

I know the difference. When i said like diablo i meant that gear is vastly more important. Nothing else, stop digging when its not needed.

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

See, I’m a little confused by your statement that “most of the options are designed to overpower the challenge”. A huge part of that depends on how you build and where you take it

Its simple. We are stronger than any challenge when properly moded. Mods are in "gear" category. We already established that youtube guides are enough for that.

 

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

And what do you think happens when someone doesn’t have the extra health? You’d think they’d have to get better at preserving what they’ve got, right?

Enemies have hitscan weapons, you cant dodge them. No matter what you do you will get hit. There is literally nothing you can do to prevent that given how many enemies game throws at you at any given moment. If it was like 5 at a time you could argue about finding a cover but its a lot more and from every direction.

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

Yes. Overguard is not a shield. Than again its low enough lvl that its not an issue whatever you take. But if it was EDA lvl you would die simply because of not enough ehp.

So when I say you don’t need Inaros, I’m not talking about EDA-levels of enemy damage. That means even though Inaros, while effectively nullifying the modifier, is not necessary, but if you do bring a Warframe that is affected, you need to be able to work without shields, and last I checked, Nightmare No-shields are not instant death and you can do them modless, which if you’re not loaded up on unnecessary amounts of health and instead are opting for, I dunno, some kind of mobility mods or Peculiar mods or anything else instead of unnecessary health as referenced in the differences between Warframe and Diablo, means you’re going to not be able to stand around, but you’re not going to get instantly deleted whatever you do, which means there’s a range of skill levels that can come into play and have an influence on just how well you perform, where given the same build and loadout for two different people, one of them may die and fail while the other succeeds, and MR does not come into the equation and someone who’s L4 could easily (and in fact most likely will) be the one who dies because they always offset themselves and never practiced even basic mechanics despite being vaguely aware of their existence.

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

I know the difference. When i said like diablo i meant that gear is vastly more important. Nothing else, stop digging when its not needed.

Its simple. We are stronger than any challenge when properly moded. Mods are in "gear" category. We already established that youtube guides are enough for that.

Properly modded for what? Level cap? Level 80? The aformentioned Nightmare?

Of course the gear is going to be the one doing all the talking when you’re built to do level 80 and you jump into a No-shield Nightmare at level 40; what happens when you jump into something that’s level 80? Are you improperly modded because you died because you suck?

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

Enemies have hitscan weapons, you cant dodge them. No matter what you do you will get hit. There is literally nothing you can do to prevent that given how many enemies game throws at you at any given moment. If it was like 5 at a time you could argue about finding a cover but its a lot more and from every direction.

You would be utterly surprised the night and day difference that movement can make, not only to reduce the chances of hit-scan from guaranteed hits to lucky chips, but to also avoid non-hitscan, break lines of sight, lure enemies into less advantageous positions so that they’re not pelting you from every angle, take advantage of shield’s recharging nature, keep your distance from shotgunners and other close-range threats, and a myriad of other benefits that occur when you don’t stand around like you’ve got an infinite pool of energy and invincibility.

The game’s spawnrates are not so bad that you don’t have options and can’t manage them, unless you’re talking Steel Path which has 4-player spawns for one player, which understandably is going to make things a little unfair but it’s not a fair gamemode

Edited September 25 by Merkranire

[MrInubis]

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

So when I say you don’t need Inaros, I’m not talking about EDA-levels of enemy damage. That means even though Inaros, while effectively nullifying the modifier, is not necessary, but if you do bring a Warframe that is affected, you need to be able to work without shields, and last I checked, Nightmare No-shields are not instant death and you can do them modless, which if you’re not loaded up on unnecessary amounts of health and instead are opting for, I dunno, some kind of mobility mods or Peculiar mods or anything else instead of unnecessary health as referenced in the differences between Warframe and Diablo, means you’re going to not be able to stand around, but you’re not going to get instantly deleted whatever you do, which means there’s a range of skill levels that can come into play and have an influence on just how well you perform, where given the same build and loadout for two different people, one of them may die and fail while the other succeeds, and MR does not come into the equation and someone who’s L4 could easily (and in fact most likely will) be the one who dies because they always offset themselves and never practiced even basic mechanics despite being vaguely aware of their existence.

You see thats perfect example of us being stronger than any challenge game throws at us. I doesnt matter that you dont have shields because you dont even need them. This whole modifier on that level is countered by simple decently high ranked vitality mod. LR4 will just bring Mesa and delete everything before it can even shoot in his general direction, not to mention her DR ability. Just the fact that you theorycraft perfect scenerio and throw many "what ifs" into the mix shows how irrelevant skill of individual is. There is 0 instances in the game where you cant "offset" yourself. You can always make yourself overpowered enough. Game never takes that away from you. You just talk how it can be in theory, i say how it is in game. Thats the difference between us.

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Properly modded for what? Level cap? Level 80? The aformentioned Nightmare?

Of course the gear is going to be the one doing all the talking when you’re built to do level 80 and you jump into a No-shield Nightmare at level 40; what happens when you jump into something that’s level 80? Are you improperly modded because you died because you suck?

Properly modded meaning  using  mods that make sense and are on adequate level (no redirectiin on Inaros, no primed sure footed on atlas etc). You can use guides for that.

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

You would be utterly surprised the night and day difference that movement can make, not only to reduce the chances of hit-scan from guaranteed hits to lucky chips, but to also avoid non-hitscan, break lines of sight, lure enemies into less advantageous positions so that they’re not pelting you from every angle, take advantage of shield’s recharging nature, keep your distance from shotgunners and other close-range threats, and a myriad of other benefits that occur when you don’t stand around like you’ve got an infinite pool of energy and invincibility.

All of this is meaningless if you get 1 shot. You will eventually get hit and you will die. If you dont have a way to recover HP you dont even need to get one shot, if the dmg you take is high enough you will die.

Edited September 25 by MrInubis

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, MrInubis said:

You see thats perfect example of us being stronger than any challenge game throws at us. I doesnt matter that you dont have shields because you dont even need them. This whole modifier on that level is countered by simple decently high ranked vitality mod. LR4 will just bring Mesa and delete everything before it can even shoot in his general direction, not to mention her DR ability. Just the fact that you theorycraft perfect scenerio and throw many "what ifs" into the mix shows how irrelevant skill of individual is. There is 0 instances in the game where you cant "offset" yourself. You can always make yourself overpowered enough. Game never takes that away from you. You just talk how it can be in theory, i say how it is in game. Thats the difference between us.

Sigh. Alright, so you equip the Vitality mod; the mission clearly doesn’t need it, but you insist on paying the mod and capacity cost for something you don’t need when you could be spending it on something else if you’ve even got the capacity to burn in the first place. Since you’re now swimming in more health than you need, what’s stopping you from then jumping into something like a level 60 Arbitration instead?

7 hours ago, MrInubis said:

Properly modded meaning  using  mods that make sense and are on adequate level (no redirectiin on Inaros, no primed sure footed on atlas etc). You can use guides for that.

What vague-ass BS is this.

7 hours ago, MrInubis said:

All of this is meaningless if you get 1 shot. You will eventually get hit and you will die. If you dont have a way to recover HP you dont even need to get one shot, if the dmg you take is high enough you will die.

Sigh. 

[MrInubis]

36 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Sigh. Alright, so you equip the Vitality mod; the mission clearly doesn’t need it, but you insist on paying the mod and capacity cost for something you don’t need when you could be spending it on something else if you’ve even got the capacity to burn in the first place. Since you’re now swimming in more health than you need, what’s stopping you from then jumping into something like a level 60 Arbitration instead?

Nothing stops me. But thats the thing, i dont have any reason to weaken myself just to play lower level content. Capacity is not a problem. I have it to use it on something anyway. I already use redirection or adaptation on most my frames. Swaping 1 mod is not an issue.

 

40 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

What vague-ass BS is this.

Its not vague at all. I told straight up to use a guide if you dont know how to mod. What other answer did you expect? It means what it means. Mods that fit  warframes kit. Thats all there is to it.

[Merkranire]

11 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

Nothing stops me. But thats the thing, i dont have any reason to weaken myself just to play lower level content. Capacity is not a problem. I have it to use it on something anyway. I already use redirection or adaptation on most my frames. Swaping 1 mod is not an issue.

So you’re perpetually offset from the content with no consideration given to what it actually costs, and the thing that stops you is you

11 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

Its not vague at all. I told straight up to use a guide if you dont know how to mod. What other answer did you expect? It means what it means. Mods that fit  warframes kit. Thats all there is to it.

You realise there’s an interplay between the content someone does, what they bring, and how they mod it, right? With extra consideration given to how someone wants to play and the juggling of cost and effect to make it happen

 

 

Do you… do anything the game is trying to entice you into doing and is designed around? Because I see why you think you’re able to sit around, but I’m not sure why you then want to sell me the idea that it’s “The way the game’s meant to be played”

edit: Oh, and also I see why you oversell MR

Edited September 25 by Merkranire

[MrInubis]

36 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

So you’re perpetually offset from the content with no consideration given to what it actually costs, and the thing that stops you is you

But why should I? There is no merit to it. Thats the point of the game, to get OP.

38 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

You realise there’s an interplay between the content someone does, what they bring, and how they mod it, right? With extra consideration given to how someone wants to play and the juggling of cost and effect to make it happen

Pompous speeches wont change how the game plays. You try to make it more grand than it is. 

40 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Do you… do anything the game is trying to entice you into doing and is designed around? Because I see why you think you’re able to sit around, but I’m not sure why you then want to sell me the idea that it’s “The way the game’s meant to be played”

edit: Oh, and also I see why you oversell MR

I play everything, every mode game has to offer, even railjack. You for some reason try to convince me that game plays differently than it actually does. Im not "selling" anything. 

[Merkranire]

1 minute ago, MrInubis said:

But why should I? There is no merit to it. Thats the point of the game, to get OP.

Pompous speeches wont change how the game plays. You try to make it more grand than it is. 

I play everything, every mode game has to offer, even railjack. You for some reason try to convince me that game plays differently than it actually does. Im not "selling" anything. 

And what about builds and loadouts? The things that you take to said content and that the game utilises as a core system of both gameplay and reward?

[MrInubis]

2 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

And what about builds and loadouts? The things that you take to said content and that the game utilises as a core system of both gameplay and reward?

I take whatever i feel like taking. Currently rocking Loki and Valkyr. Both pretty maxed out with Tau shards etc. It doesnt matter, i have plenty of good enough loadouts to solo netracels.

[Merkranire]

Just now, MrInubis said:

I take whatever i feel like taking. Currently rocking Loki and Valkyr. Both pretty maxed out with Tau shards etc. It doesnt matter, i have plenty of good enough loadouts to solo netracels.

So then you understand that when you take whatever you feel like taking to wherever you feel like taking it, at some point in time your build alone won’t be enough?

[MrDugan]

I was joined in a kuva flood (long time ago.) by an MR6, and one of the higher rank pubbies was giving them crap in chat about showing up to a kuva flood, since this was "high level" at the time.  The 4th left, iirc.  The 6 proceeded to smoke them in damage and kills.  I made friends with them after that, because it was hilarious to me.

I look at my squad, and notice rank and what they're using.  I like to pay attention to that.  The only things I actually care about though:  Are you playing the objective, am I having to pick you up every 30 seconds, and for netracells specifically, do you know what a circle is and can you manage to actually stay inside the gd thing while you're killing stuff?  Nothing else matters.

I had a pubbie in a netracell that openly admitted they did not have the damage to help, but wanted shards and stuff.  They brought an Inaros and they delivered enemies straight to the circle, since this was before the changes.  Playing the objective?  Check.  Not dying constantly?  Check.  Circle criteria gets negated, since they were literally hand delivering enemies to me.

And anyone that sees an MR0 outside of Nightmare Rotation A planets and doesn't automatically assume that they're on an MR0 run needs to do some critical thinking.

[MrInubis]

53 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

So then you understand that when you take whatever you feel like taking to wherever you feel like taking it, at some point in time your build alone won’t be enough?

It never happened up to this point so its yet again speculation on your part. Im not doing "but what if". If it will come to that i will take stronger build for given task the same way i take Ivara for spy missions. Do i have to? No but i can, she makes it just a walk.

[Merkranire]

7 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

It never happened up to this point so its yet again speculation on your part. Im not doing "but what if". If it will come to that i will take stronger build for given task the same way i take Ivara for spy missions. Do i have to? No but i can, she makes it just a walk.

If you’ve always avoided any case where it can happen, narrowing your range of options ever further beyond what the game itself would do and limiting yourself, I can see why you would say that there’s no need for any sort of playing capability. I’m just shocked that you’ve remained so blind for so long

And to be clear, when I say “Take whatever wherever”, I’m not talking about some arbitrary ill-defined starting point where you’ve burned mod slots and capacity and are wondering what to do with the one or two slots leftover in content that you should have every slot available; I’m talking every single combination of everything, where nothing’s off the table 

That’s a lot of options and a lot of reason to play, both in gameplay and gear, that you’re tossing to the side. And I still wouldn’t take you as an L4 over Mr. MR0 challenge

[MrInubis]

18 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

If you’ve always avoided any case where it can happen, narrowing your range of options ever further beyond what the game itself would do and limiting yourself, I can see why you would say that there’s no need for any sort of playing capability. I’m just shocked that you’ve remained so blind for so long

I didnt, i play whatever i want wherever i want. I will not gimp myself just because you think its good thing to do. I have currently 20 different loadouts with different weapons and frames on each. I play more or less every single one, with 1 dedicated for leveling things where i regulary swap gear. Why should I make myself weaker? What would be the purpose? My Loki loadout uses zakti prime, proboscis cernos and guandua prime. Non of this is meta and it still is strong enough to carry. Im not interested in endurance runs and never will.

 

20 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

That’s a lot of options and a lot of reason to play, both in gameplay and gear, that you’re tossing to the side. And I still wouldn’t take you as an L4 over Mr. MR0 challenge

You do you, i dont care. I play for my entertainment not yours.

[Merkranire]

1 minute ago, MrInubis said:

I didnt, i play whatever i want wherever i want. I will not gimp myself just because you think its good thing to do. I have currently 20 different loadouts with different weapons and frames on each. I play more or less every single one, with 1 dedicated for leveling things where i regulary swap gear. Why should I make myself weaker? What would be the purpose? My Loki loadout uses zakti prime, proboscis cernos and guandua prime. Non of this is meta and it still is strong enough to carry. Im not interested in endurance runs and never will.

 

You do you, i dont care. I play for my entertainment not yours.

You do you.

Just zip it about the skill thing

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

Just zip it about the skill thing

When you have to intentionally make yourself weaker and use sub par gear to even try to show this skill it was never a factor. Gear > skill. You can play like that, sure but dont act like this is normal when you make it challneging for yourself. You opt into it.

[Merkranire]

58 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

When you have to intentionally make yourself weaker and use sub par gear to even try to show this skill it was never a factor. Gear > skill. You can play like that, sure but dont act like this is normal when you make it challneging for yourself. You opt into it.

Opting into it comes with the territory of using the stuff you’re playing for and earning in the first place. It’s in this game’s DNA, it’s one of the big selling points.

Yeah, you can lock yourself into some singular META, but do you know why people do things like point out that you’re not stuck with using it?

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, Merkranire said:

Opting into it comes with the territory of using the stuff you’re playing for and earning in the first place. It’s in this game’s DNA, it’s one of the big selling points.

Yeah, you can lock yourself into some singular META, but do you know why people do things like point out that you’re not stuck with using it?

Thats your reason to play, not mine. Also probscic cernos and zakti are sooooo meta you know?

[Merkranire]

Just now, MrInubis said:

Thats your reason to play, not mine. Also probscic cernos and zakti are sooooo meta you know?

Better stop gimping yourself then

[MrInubis]

Just now, Merkranire said:

Better stop gimping yourself then

Im not. Im using primed mods, arcanes, rivens and buffs. Guess what? I can do netracels with them. 

[Merkranire]

Just now, MrInubis said:

Im not. Im using primed mods, arcanes, rivens and buffs. Guess what? I can do netracels with them. 

Dude, I’m not saying you can’t do netracels. I’m pretty sure if you gave that same build to my dead grandma, she can do them too, while I’m taking that same build even higher

[MrInubis]

Just now, Merkranire said:

Dude, I’m not saying you can’t do netracels. I’m pretty sure if you gave that same build to my dead grandma, she can do them too, while I’m taking that same build even higher

There is nothing higher besides endurance runs. Im not interested in those. I rarely have more than 2h to play a day, i wont waste it on something so worthless and just boring.

[Merkranire]

Just now, MrInubis said:

There is nothing higher besides endurance runs. Im not interested in those. I rarely have more than 2h to play a day, i wont waste it on something so worthless and just boring.

Alright then, I’ll just bring a different build or loadout to the netracels, shall I?

[MrInubis]

Just now, Merkranire said:

Alright then, I’ll just bring a different build or loadout to the netracels, shall I?

I can do that too, whats your point? I can do them on speed nova....

[Merkranire]

Just now, MrInubis said:

I can do that too, whats your point? I can do them on speed nova....

So I’ve got a different build to what you’re using; it does the job and gives me the gameplay I’m looking for, is made of components that I’ve earned and want to use, and is capable of doing the mission.

As I’m the one who’s been banging on about skill, I now hand you that build, Mr “I can do them on speed nova”. What happens?