Brakk Nerf Megathread - Post Your Thoughts!

[-Innovation-]

If i play 100+ gruelingly repetitive event missions, i deserve a kick &#! Brakk. Not an overblown pellet gun.

 

Just fix the Brakk DE. Just do it.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

You know the Cry babies always gotta have their nerfs on something they didnt get because they were lazy.

All this shows is that the Devs submit to a bunch of crybabies on the forums.

So...  The idea of a single piece of equipment eclipsing a gigantic swath of content is fine with you then?  I'm not saying the Brakk got the appropriate nerf, but it needed a nerf.

 

 

The Boar had that for approximately 9 updates, and was one of the worst weapons of the game for 9 of those updates.

 

FYI.

 

"Highest sustained DPS" is irrelevant when it's literally a melee weapon that uses ammunition and requires aiming.

It's still one of the most ammo efficient weapons in the game.  Mix that with the second-highest burst-DPS of any weapon in the game (second only to the Dual Bronco's couple seconds of carnage) and the highest sustained DPS of anything in the game...  Also, it's hardly melee.  Melee has a max range of say, 2 meters.  This is five to ten times that.  The only way to get anywhere close to that in melee is to use Galatine, but even then, you're doing much better and have the ability to do so without putting yourself in danger like you have to with the Galatine.  Oh, and don't forget proc chance.

 

They may incidentally occupy similar niches and one could make the argument that it is similar in an uncomfortable to the heavy melee class of weaponry, but to say that it is the equivalent of an aimed melee is just wrong.  Even if it was, it would be better than anything melee has to offer.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[-Kittens-]

So...  The idea of a single piece of equipment eclipsing a gigantic swath of content is fine with you then?  I'm not saying the Brakk got the appropriate nerf, but it needed a nerf.

 

 

It's still one of the most ammo efficient weapons in the game.  Mix that with the second-highest burst-DPS of any weapon in the game (second only to the Dual Bronco's couple seconds of carnage) and the highest sustained DPS of anything in the game...  Also, it's hardly melee.  Melee has a max range of say, 2 meters.  This is five to ten times that.  The only way to get anywhere close to that in melee is to use Galatine, but even then, you're doing much better and have the ability to do so without putting yourself in danger like you have to with the Galatine.  Oh, and don't forget proc chance.

 

They may incidentally occupy similar niches and one could make the argument that it is similar in an uncomfortable to the heavy melee class of weaponry, but to say that it is the equivalent of an aimed melee is just wrong.  Even if it was, it would be better than anything melee has to offer.

 

 

 

Nope.

 

I didn't spend five forma on open mindedness. I spent five forma on the ONLY gun out of 124 in the game designed to do equal damage across resistance types so I could actually do alert missions without having masturbate in the goddamn weapon selection screen for fifteen minutes every goddamn alert.

 

It's not my fault DE pumps out three @(*()$ weapons every week. It's DE's.

 

And they wonder why people leave in droves.

 

Classic case of fake difficulty and content creep.

 

All they had to was change the damage from 50 to 35.

 

Wow.

 

That took such an agonizingly long time to do. So much database permuting.

[10Inches]

it was actually just 5 runs when a new node came available lol. They released 18 in total i believe, so running a few extra with my clan mate would have pushed me up over 100. And yeah, farming isn't too bad. 

 

And don't lie, nobody does a mission in the derelict and walks out with 25 mutagen samples, 10-15 yeah, maybe, but not 25 unless you did some ODD to over wave 40 (which is what I did to farm mutagen samples) or have ridiculous luck.

 

But yes, its fine for people who join a clan, try being one of 2 people who built every room and did every research in their clan whilst trying to get all your clan weapons built. 

 

And don't kid yourself, it was always grind intensive. 

 

you must have unfathomably bad luck then. I got about 27 one run and 24 another. We only did around 30 waves.

On your comment on 2 man clans, that's a completely different argument, we're not discussing the effort it takes to make a complete clan by yourself. Fact remains that the majority of players join clans that have some if not all research complete. It is also not very common for players to be active within a clan with such small amounts of players, if you do, then I feel your pain. For the majority of players out there, crafting a research weapon is simply buying the bp and crafting the resources needed. 

For whatever reason you are trying to argue that brakk is not hard earnt and that it is perfectly fine for weapons that take much effort to build, brakk, acrid or otherwise to be nerfed from a top tier weapon designed for endgame to an ineffective weapon that does not even reach its effective range without putting a player in immediate danger of swarming enemies, you must be delusional.

Have a good day.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

<quote from somewhere>

There are other guns that deal damage that's equal across all categories, but I don't think that's really the point.

 

If you spend forma on something, it's a gamble and you have to accept that, especially when one weapon can eclipse everything else in the game...

[Redmage107]

I just kinda want my Brakk to have more range than my melee weapon. I'm legitimately fine with every other nerf, I knew it was coming, and I think the weapon is still usable now but I'd really just appreciate raising the drop off to 20 meters instead of 10. Most engagements in Warframe kind of take place at mid close range anyway, so it's not a big deal but it'd make it more comfortable to use without totally breaking it

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I just kinda want my Brakk to have more range than my melee weapon. I'm legitimately fine with every other nerf, I knew it was coming, and I think the weapon is still usable now but I'd really just appreciate raising the drop off to 20 meters instead of 10. Most engagements in Warframe kind of take place at mid close range anyway, so it's not a big deal but it'd make it more comfortable to use without totally breaking it

What if the back end was extended so that it was [10,30] instead so that it would be a more gradual falloff?

[MJ12]

It's still one of the most ammo efficient weapons in the game.  Mix that with the second-highest burst-DPS of any weapon in the game (second only to the Dual Bronco's couple seconds of carnage) and the highest sustained DPS of anything in the game...  Also, it's hardly melee.  Melee has a max range of say, 2 meters.  This is five to ten times that.  The only way to get anywhere close to that in melee is to use Galatine, but even then, you're doing much better and have the ability to do so without putting yourself in danger like you have to with the Galatine.  Oh, and don't forget proc chance.

 

They may incidentally occupy similar niches and one could make the argument that it is similar in an uncomfortable to the heavy melee class of weaponry, but to say that it is the equivalent of an aimed melee is just wrong.  Even if it was, it would be better than anything melee has to offer.

 

Ammo efficiency is irrelevant, because almost all shotguns/snipers are extremely ammo-efficient and only the ARs have an actual ammunition efficiency problem. Given how cheap the Ammo Mutator mod is, relatively speaking, and how it's reliably acquired by doing 20 minutes in a survival, it's not nearly as meaningful as one would think.

 

And again, you're ignoring effective DPS. That effective burst DPS is basically 'nil', unless you're going to hold fire until you charge into melee range, at which point you've spent several seconds not firing that the other guy has used to fire repeatedly. Its sustained DPS also forces you into very close range. Is it a good melee weapon? Sure. It works in that risk-reward paradigm. Except melee weapons don't use ammunition and leave your hands free for another weapon. If I could equip the Brakk instead of the Galantine, I would agree with you that it's just fine now.

 

As an actual ranged weapon, it's crap now.

[Auxeus]

Brakk shouldn't qualify as hand cannon. It doesn't shoot large size projectile like Seer but pellets.

 

Make it a true hand cannon or else please fix that misleading description.

[theammostore]

 

 

Yeah! It has the SAME niche as every other shotgun! YAY! DIVERSITY!

 

Did you even look at the stats before you posted?

I did actually. This man happened to put up a thread about it so I can be lazy and not have to screen cap it myself.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/144565-brakk-bronco-and-bronco-prime-comparison/

 

also, yay quote is back

[-Kittens-]

There are other guns that deal damage that's equal across all categories, but I don't think that's really the point.

 

If you spend forma on something, it's a gamble and you have to accept that, especially when one weapon can eclipse everything else in the game...

 

Uhh, no. There are no 100% proc blast elemental shotguns.

 

There's always going to be a best gun, unless DE just want to refund everyone's money and apologize for wasting three years of work and everyone's time and shut down the servers. That's the literal nature of asymmetrical combat theory.

 

I think it's rather clear DE hasn't the faintest idea what tiered and risk-reward/time-effort content should be. or even is to begin with. They need to send Scott and Steve to go hang out with Manveer Heir, Corry Gaspar, and Eric %&amp;^nan for at least a week. It isn't even that far a drive.

 

Melee is literally useless, Corpus have invincible heads, there are exactly two go-to elemental binds to use in any build, and yet DE is spending manhours and man$$$ nerfing the only universal weapon in a game they admit themselves is hilariously newbie unfriendly when all they had to do was lessen the damage by about a third and thus keep the spirit of gun intact without perverting the letter of WF's supposedly "golden" tripod, which actually now consists of "use a fu@king vectis/soma, n00b" because everything else is hilariously out of the bounds of competency.

 

When your magic triangle is in fact a straight line, perhaps you should be concentrating on getting the other angles shiny and luminous instead of making every pistol in the game pretty much crap after level 25 in general.

Edited December 7, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Brimir]

It is the "heavy nerf" now? Oh my, sounds so much more serious than just "nerf"!

[MJ12]

Look, simple Brakk nerf:

 

Reduce damage from 150 -> 140 to start. Gradually reduce damage with 10 point increments if still not nerfed 'sufficiently'. Stop around 120 or so and proceed to reduce accuracy and/or increase reload times.

 

There. Nerfed.

 

Damage falloff was always a terrible mechanic, especially since shotguns and shotgun-like weapons are already losing significant damage at range, so this is literally a double-whammy. It wasn't needed to balance the Hek, it isn't needed to balance the Brakk, and it literally isn't needed period.

Edited December 7, 2013 by MJ12

[10Inches]

Uhh, no. There are no 100% proc blast elemental shotguns.

 

There's always going to be a best gun, unless DE just want to refund everyone's money and apologize for wasting three years of work and everyone's time and shut down the servers. That's the literal nature of asymmetrical combat theory.

 

I think it's rather clear DE hasn't the faintest idea what tiered and risk-reward/time-effort content should be. or even is to begin with. They need to send Scott and Steve to go hang out with Manveer Heir, Corry Gaspar, and Eric %&amp;^nan for at least a week. It isn't even that far a drive.

 

Melee is literally useless, Corpus have invincible heads, there are exactly two go-to elemental binds to use in any build, and yet DE is spending manhours and man$$$ nerfing the only universal weapon in a game they admit themselves is hilariously newbie unfriendly when all they had to do was lessen the damage by about a third and thus keep the spirit of gun intact without perverting the letter of WF's supposedly "golden" tripod, which actually now consists of "use a fu@king vectis/soma, n00b" because everything else is hilariously out of the bounds of competency.

 

When your magic triangle is in fact a straight line, perhaps you should be concentrating on getting the other angles shiny and luminous instead of making every pistol in the game pretty much crap after level 25 in general.

Uhh, no. There are no 100% proc blast elemental shotguns.

 

There's always going to be a best gun, unless DE just want to refund everyone's money and apologize for wasting three years of work and everyone's time and shut down the servers. That's the literal nature of asymmetrical combat theory.

 

I think it's rather clear DE hasn't the faintest idea what tiered and risk-reward/time-effort content should be. or even is to begin with. They need to send Scott and Steve to go hang out with Manveer Heir, Corry Gaspar, and Eric %&amp;^nan for at least a week. It isn't even that far a drive.

 

Melee is literally useless, Corpus have invincible heads, there are exactly two go-to elemental binds to use in any build, and yet DE is spending manhours and man$$$ nerfing the only universal weapon in a game they admit themselves is hilariously newbie unfriendly when all they had to do was lessen the damage by about a third and thus keep the spirit of gun intact without perverting the letter of WF's supposedly "golden" tripod, which actually now consists of "use a fu@king vectis/soma, n00b" because everything else is hilariously out of the bounds of competency.

 

When your magic triangle is in fact a straight line, perhaps you should be concentrating on getting the other angles shiny and luminous instead of making every pistol in the game pretty much crap after level 25 in general.

Yes, I agree. The game always has to have a 'most powerful weapon'. So far it's become a ritual of, nerf the most powerful one into oblivion so the next most powerful takes its spot. Then people yell nerf and they nerf that as well. Well, what would this do in the end? A game where the weapons and weapon levels are horribly out of place, a game where people fear to use formas on their weapons because they fear it getting nerfed, cos who knows? It might just become the acrid of its time.

[Cosmeo]

My reaction: HELL YES!

 

Now people might actually use other sidearms if they have the Brakk.

 

I still think it needs to be brought lower, honestly.  It was the king sidearm by a huge margin.

 

Going by this logic, Let's nerf the Synapse, so that people might actually use other firearms if they have the Synapse.

 

Then why get the Synapse?

[Zeonsilt]

It's deserved the nerf.

[5stareraser]

Im against any kind of Nerf !!! Buff Everything !!! Close the gaps !!!

[Zeonsilt]

Going by this logic, Let's nerf the Synapse, so that people might actually use other firearms if they have the Synapse.

 

Then why get the Synapse?

People actually uses ton of other weapons Ignis,Ogris,Soma,Latron Prime,Flux and many others.

But quess what?Everyone have Brakk as secondary.

People agreed that it's OP and superior to all other secondaries in the game.

[Nnazqul]

Going by this logic, Let's nerf the Synapse, so that people might actually use other firearms if they have the Synapse.

 

Then why get the Synapse?

Synapse is a good weapon.But not even the best in its field,

now that's a difference.

[shut]

Synapse is a good weapon.But not even the best in its field,

now that's a difference.

?

Is there a primary that deals better DPS than Synapse that I'm not aware of (speed-macro'd Strun Wraith aside)?

Edited December 7, 2013 by SortaRandom

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Uhh, no. There are no 100% proc blast elemental shotguns.

 

<DE is bad at balance>

Sorry, misunderstood the quoted post I suppose.  I thought you were saying that there were no other weapons with equal distributions of impact/puncture/slash so I was rather confused.

 

And I agree DE has some severe issues with game design, enemy design, and balance.

 

 

If I could equip the Brakk instead of the Galantine, I would agree with you that it's just fine now.

 

As an actual ranged weapon, it's crap now.

I still disagree that you can call it a melee weapon though.  Its range is several times larger.

 

 

Look, simple Brakk nerf:

 

Reduce damage from 150 -> 140 to start. Gradually reduce damage with 10 point increments if still not nerfed 'sufficiently'. Stop around 120 or so and proceed to reduce accuracy and/or increase reload times.

 

There. Nerfed.

 

Damage falloff was always a terrible mechanic, especially since shotguns and shotgun-like weapons are already losing significant damage at range, so this is literally a double-whammy. It wasn't needed to balance the Hek, it isn't needed to balance the Brakk, and it literally isn't needed period.

Honestly, I feel like small iterative changes like this would have been better.  Instead, DE likes to make "big changes" for some reason even when they aren't needed and usually overdoes it.

 

 

Yes, I agree. The game always has to have a 'most powerful weapon'. So far it's become a ritual of, nerf the most powerful one into oblivion so the next most powerful takes its spot. Then people yell nerf and they nerf that as well. Well, what would this do in the end? A game where the weapons and weapon levels are horribly out of place, a game where people fear to use formas on their weapons because they fear it getting nerfed, cos who knows? It might just become the acrid of its time.

Umm... No.  The ideal situation would be when you can have a group of ten people each arguing for their own equipment and all of them having perfectly reasonable explanations to back it up where the difference comes down to playstyle being the deciding factor.  Just because you nerf a weapon doesn't mean that it has to make it un-fun.

[Garuger]

Shotgun should not have that huge drop off because we are  in space with low gravity. Thus the momentum of the pellets should allow them to travel further

[Nnazqul]

?

Is there a primary that deals better DPS than Synapse that I'm not aware of (speed-macro'd Strun Wraith aside)?

Soma is arguably better.

And the very fact that it's arguably proves it's not OP.

And even if it were the best rifle, it's not that much better that it makes the other primaries obsolete.

so the argument is weak

[TenkoTenko]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that a nerf was needed for this Heavenly Squash Gun of Space Justice. But the falloff is just ridiculous, and imo there wasn't a need to touch it's Impact/Puncture/Slash ratio. My squash now deals 7s to Grineer Lancers on Kappa, please look into the falloff ranges and fix them thanks.

[CrimsonEpicado]

Shame on you DE.... Your game is going the direction of all the other games. You spend time on nerfing guns when you should be giving us more content. I have all the destinations unlocked in the Galaxy and im burned out on all the Orkin maps.   NOW WHAT?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Edited December 7, 2013 by CrimsonEpicado