The Realism Of The Brakk Nerf Is Awesome. De Should Make It More Widespread.

[skillabstinenz]

ignis rebuff pls

[Archistopheles]

Do you even look at the weapons?

Soma lost crit. 

Snipetron vandal is just a terrible weapon AND it's no longer armor ignore, if anything snipers other than vectis need a buff. 

 

Fair enough, but the effectiveness of those weapons hasn't changed.

[Seze]

Everyone loves the new Brakk range falloff right?

 

I mean, its so "realistic" and fun, it should be applied to MORE weapons that should have a range limit.

 

The rest of the "shotgun pistols" goes without saying.... but what about the hand thrown weapons?

 

Like Hikous and Kunais and let's not forget the Despairs.

 

And of course arrows fired from bows also have traditionally been known to fall steadily downward after some travel time.

 

Of course, the real-life damage falloff isn't really as drastic as  what was used on the Brakk, but this is "selective" realism anyway. As the damage falloff fans (and we're ALL fans of this awesome concept aren't we?) are quick to point out, videogames tend to exaggerate the damage falloff for weapons like shotguns anyway. It's an industry standard apparently, and a sacred cow that must be worshipped.

 

We'll be able to have awesomeness like bows that use sniper ammo but have the range of a glaive. Or better yet, the kestrel. Heck, at that point it'd probably be more efficient to just pluck them from the quiver and throw them by hand, but that would just make the weapon into a set of oversized kunai, and we need variety in our game right? Because variety is good. And that means making lots of different models of guns that work like cheap fisher price toys, and melee weapons that work like they're contending to be a humane replacement for the devilish practice of tickle torture.

 

I cannot wait for this to be implemented (it's a foregone conclusion that it WILL be implemented given the enormous, nay UNANIMOUS support for damage falloff). And when it happens, DE can update their tagline. The old one was kind of stale anyway. "Waframe - Ninjas Play Free"?

 

When the last of these cool changes go live they can replace it with something REALLY catchy. "Warframe - Guns that fire BBs and swords that hit like oversized-fish."

 

The hipness of that alone will probably cause the player base to multiply by a factor of 1 billion. (People will be cloning themselves just to have a fresh new players to run Mercury missions with, while the rest of the solar map goes unexplored since it will be instant death to set foot outside the starter zone with the weapons we will have).

 

I'm so excited for this!!! And already bracing for the flood of upvotes.

 

 

**On a side note, Banshee does not really need SoundQuake. It's way too powerful for Warframe. Give her something more in character, like maybe  a Brown Noise ability that makes enemies void their bowels.

 

Also, Nova's Molecular Prime should just make enemies glitter like the vampires in Twlight. That would be so cool!

 

You Sir have made my day!!

[aa3123]

Have you noticed it ignores shields now? It could still use a buff, but it's not like it got completely nerfed.

 

And as for the AI (serrated, AP, poison): They were removed BECAUSE they're what caused part of the problem (the other half being the armor scaling in general). Any weapon (minus a couple) that didn't ignore armor fell off rapidly, meaning (minus a couple weapons), AI weapons were they only viable ones.

Sorry, no offense, but why is everyone responding to me with wrong information? 

 

It is completely nerfed because you can ignore shields so it can do -50% to robotics.  That's wonderful.  Great idea.  But why stop there, make it 25% worse against infested too.  Let's compare that to magnetic's 75% to shield and 50% to robotics.

 

The positive side? It's got 50% to flesh.  Well, let's see.  Heat magically gain 75% against flesh in the process.  Viral does 100%.  Grineers Still have armor.  So do you think I should reserve one of my 3 mission weapon slot just for corpus crewman?

 

Everything is viable and balance achieved!  Never fear the most dangerous enemy, corpus crewman, again!

 

Actually no, armor ignore was not a problem.  They were solutions to armor scaling.  People just whine whine and whine some more cause they expect an unranked lato that comes right out of the market to kill level 100s.  That's the real problem.  They were removed BECAUSE of bad game design.  Armor should have been removed completely from the game and grineers should just receive a flat damage reduction.  Damage and health scaling would suffice for increased level difficulty.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Sorry, no offense, but why is everyone responding to me with wrong information? 

 

It is completely nerfed because you can ignore shields so it can do -50% to robotics.  That's wonderful.  Great idea.  But why stop there, make it 25% worse against infested too.  Let's compare that to magnetic's 75% to shield and 50% to robotics.

 

The positive side? It's got 50% to flesh.  Well, let's see.  Heat magically gain 75% against flesh in the process.  Viral does 100%.  Grineers Still have armor.  So do you think I should reserve one of my 3 mission weapon slot just for corpus crewman?

Again, I said it could still use a buff, but you made it seem like it has no upside. It's not as useful as magnetic, but it's not completely useless. (and could use a buff still.)

 

 

Actually no, armor ignore was not a problem.  They were solutions to armor scaling.  People just whine whine and whine some more cause they expect an unranked lato that comes right out of the market to kill level 100s.  That's the real problem.  They were removed BECAUSE of bad game design.  Armor should have been removed completely from the game and grineers should just receive a flat damage reduction.  Damage and health scaling would suffice for increased level difficulty.

Actually, AI was part of the problem, if it wasn't AI, it was pretty much useless, which eliminated over what, 60% of weapons? (What I'm saying is that if it didn't have AI it was worthless more or less, with a few exceptions)

 

And what made you think I think that the lato should be able to kill level 100s? And a flat damage reduction on the grineer? It wasn't just the grineer, it was everything that had armor, more or less, a total revamp was called for.

[aa3123]

Again, I said it could still use a buff, but you made it seem like it has no upside. It's not as useful as magnetic, but it's not completely useless. (and could use a buff still.)

 

 

Actually, AI was part of the problem, if it wasn't AI, it was pretty much useless, which eliminated over what, 60% of weapons? (What I'm saying is that if it didn't have AI it was worthless more or less, with a few exceptions)

 

And what made you think I think that the lato should be able to kill level 100s? And a flat damage reduction on the grineer? It wasn't just the grineer, it was everything that had armor, more or less, a total revamp was called for.

Do YOU use it?  If you don't, you are admitting it's bad.  If you do, well honestly that makes you bad.  It's only there to make corrosive.  Not even arguable. 

 

Saying the same thing again doesn't make it any less wrong than the first time you use it.  In fact, it's the same if you just don't post again since everyone already saw what you wanted to say.  It's a waste of time to respond to you because you are just repeating the same thing over and over as an argument. I don't want to see a third variation of your first post so I'll just stop here.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Do YOU use it?  If you don't, you are admitting it's bad.  If you do, well honestly that makes you bad.  It's only there to make corrosive.  Not even arguable. 

I do use it, normally when I go to farm neural sensors though. Is it a first pick? No, but it's marginally useful at best. To be honest, I only really used it because I wanted to see if it did ignore shields (and I'm sure I'd have killed stuff faster with magnetic/heat combo instead)

 

And really a personal attacks? Nice, clearly you have grasped the art of arguing (like a 5 year old...).

 

And should I state it again? Can you read? Did you miss that I said it needs to be buffed twice? (3 times now), or are you just dense? Let me state it again then:

 

Can it be useful? Yes, but only vs like, 3 or 4 enemies (corpus crewman and their variants), does it need a buff? Yes. Is it almost the weakest damage type? Yes (impact might be the weakest, kinda debatable considering corpus robots also have shields). Am I admitting it's bad? YES, like I have before, which you missed because you didn't read.

 

Saying the same thing again doesn't make it any less wrong than the first time you use it.  In fact, it's the same if you just don't post again since everyone already saw what you wanted to say.  It's a waste of time to respond to you because you are just repeating the same thing over and over as an argument. I don't want to see a third variation of your first post so I'll just stop here.

I see "waaa, someone has a slightly different view than me! waaa!" in all of this.

Edited December 12, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[aa3123]

Broken Record.  Let's go for a 4th time.

 

Oh and the nerf storm continues with damage type nerfs in 11.3. 

Heat does no bonus to infested? Genius.  That's what I call realism!  Now we are back on topic.

Viral -75% shield, 25% flesh, -25% infested, -25% robotics. GENIUS. That's what I call BALANCE.

 

Mission accomplished!  Well, maybe after a few more nerf.  We can use those.

Edited December 12, 2013 by aa3123

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Broken Record.  Let's go for a 4th time.

Sure, why not, ignore my post, and then claim it means something that it does not.

 

-insert text about how toxic is mildly useful on jupiter defense/survival where majority of enemies (for the first few minutes atleast) are crewmen, but it's still incredibly weak- Still weak, but better now.

 

Oh, and checking the codex it does 25% more vs armor, 25% more vs infested (and gas does 75% more now to flesh, 25% more to infested)

 

Still bad? Eh, I'd say it's better, but still weak in general since it does less vs robots. (if it did 25% more vs them it'd be in a good spot imo) looking at the other elements, it's pretty good actually.

 

Cold got a buff (kinda), less shield damage, no downsides, heat is weeeak now vs everything but pure HP (i.e. shields corpus crewmen), same for electric, corrosive does less vs HP, same to armor, viral is very weak now, radiation does 75% more to infested, 25% more to robots (just in case you missed those changes)

 

And yeah, heat got a huge nerf, it should do SOMETHING to infested at least. Oh, and I'd say toxic is actually decent now, especially seeing as other elements can be pretty bad now. Magnetic kills shields, but does 75% less to HP, heat deals 25% less to armor shields, only only 25% more to flesh, slash only does 25% more to flesh, 15% less to armor, 25% less to robots, electric does 25% less to flesh/infested, and only 25% more to robots, viral does 75% less to shields, 25% less to infested/robots, and ONLY 25% more to flesh.

 

tl;dr: toxic is pretty good now.

Edited December 12, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[aa3123]

Sure, why not, ignore my post, and then claim it means something that it does not.

Ignoring post, and claiming it means something else? well ....

 

Armor should have been removed COMPLETELY from the game and grineers should just receive a flat damage reduction. 

 

which means removing armor from everything. You replied:

 

 And a flat damage reduction on the grineer? It wasn't just the grineer, it was everything that had armor, more or less, a total revamp was called for.

 

So, you are just stating your own personal opinion without actually reading what I said.  Okay.  I actually have no problems with that.  But I am not interested in a one way conversation.  Oh and you did state how toxin ignore shields which is not bad!!!!!!! blah blah want buff!! for a 3rd time.

 

But none of that matters now.  Re-modding all my weapons again is way more important than playing along with your one way conversation.  Enjoy.  If you think you win, sure!  Just like how the new balancing is a total win.  Not worth my time here.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

But none of that matters now.  Re-modding all my weapons again is way more important than playing along with your one way conversation.  Enjoy.  If you think you win, sure!  Just like how the new balancing is a total win.  Not worth my time here.

Mhm, ok sure whatever, but now toxic is actually decent... which I guess ends this nonsense. (And no, the new balance kinda sucks, so many "useless" elements that barely have any upside)

Edited December 12, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[aa3123]

(And no, the new balance kinda sucks, so many "useless" elements that barely have any upside)

 

If you think you win, sure!  Just like how the new balancing is a total win.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

Ah, fair enough, misread it.

Edited December 12, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Voidflow]

Do you even look at the weapons?

Soma lost crit.

Snipetron vandal is just a terrible weapon AND it's no longer armor ignore, if anything snipers other than vectis need a buff.

Swandal never was armor ignore it was AP, like Despair, Dread.

Vectis is fine as it is.

I see slowly your point through your posts.

I guess the lighting nerf hit your ego to hard, thats why you QQ here, and there.

Stop qq, Brakk supposed to be close range weapon. Soma deserve probably a nerf since there is no Orokin tech in it yet, (compared to clan weapons or primes).

And again there is no need and no reason for OP weapons. Your argument about need of OP weapons for high level survival and defense is invalid, since ...

- only enemy level changes, and you reach damage saturation anyway. level X or Y doesnt matter at the end ...

- it breakes lore content balance, leading to complains: too easy.

Even the new content and events will be too easy ...

- at the same time a possible new hard content made only "for" OP weapons leads to faster run through effect. ... exhausted ... bored.

Because of boredom and so called "lack of content" ... because you already owned by power creep ...

- it makes public games too widespreaded if it comes to damage output. > more complains.

- it decreases amount of "useful" weapons. Also leading to complains like: You have problems with Dera? Noob you need Soma.

- it kills weapon diversity

- it splits the community

etc.

New damage 2.0 is good step towads sidegrades.

Damage saturation fits more with lore (due to tech limits), kills power creep, makes more content enjoyable, faster implentation of new content etc.

Damage scale via weapon specific forma multiplier could even more improve the game expirience.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Voidflow

[tuman18]

When Deathcube was released and it was OP his owners says "Buff other sentinels, do not nerf Cube!" And, surprisingly, devs listen to this guys. Why not to do same at this time? Why hardly obtained reward-only weapon must be nerfed - what sense in this weapon and in all this "big, epic event" if you can't even get a good gun from it? Warframe is not PVP where illusive and elusive balance is all, you can have a nice gun that you hardly got from in-game event and it's OK - cause every party member will receive XP and there are more than only one way to get more kills.

[Bakim0n0]

Sad but true, as it's happened time and time again, but DE pretty much has been doing this:

1. Release something new that is way OP and throws off game balance
2. Wait for everyone to rush and buy it and forma the crap out of it ($$$)
3. Nerf weapon into the ground
4. Repeate step 1
-if the community makes loud enough noise about it-
5. Make vauge promises to fix said gear
6. several months later when people have given up on it, fix it. or, if the community has made loud noise about how gear is not as good as x gear and DE promises to make them simialar instead nerf x gear into the ground, wait several weeks and repeate step 5

I really, REALLY had high hopes for this game in CBT but I just can't see myself being able to get invested in the game again with this roller coaster nerf and buff cycle.
 

[aa3123]

Vectis is fine as it is.

I guess the lighting nerf hit your ego to hard, thats why you QQ here, and there.

Stop qq, Brakk supposed to be close range weapon. Soma deserve probably a nerf since there is no Orokin tech in it yet, (compared to clan weapons or primes).

 

 

if anything snipers other than vectis need a buff. 

 

 

Honestly, I can deal with the brakk nerf.  Damage toward impact, that's fine.  Damage spread increase more like a shotgun, that's fine.  Unrealistic damage falloff with the sole purpose to make it a close range weapon, that's actually fine even when they overdid it.  Though others may disagree.  It's still decent enough to be viable at really close range.

 

 

So, you are just stating your own personal opinion without actually reading what I said.  Okay.  I actually have no problems with that.  But I am not interested in a one way conversation. 

Talk about ego

[Dipstick]

I demand a fish melee weapons

[Deadmice]

I demand a fish melee weapons

[Cwierz]

Swandal never was armor ignore it was AP, like Despair, Dread.

Vectis is fine as it is.

I see slowly your point through your posts.

I guess the lighting nerf hit your ego to hard, thats why you QQ here, and there.

Stop qq, Brakk supposed to be close range weapon. Soma deserve probably a nerf since there is no Orokin tech in it yet, (compared to clan weapons or primes).

And again there is no need and no reason for OP weapons. Your argument about need of OP weapons for high level survival and defense is invalid, since ...

- only enemy level changes, and you reach damage saturation anyway. level X or Y doesnt matter at the end ...

- it breakes lore content balance, leading to complains: too easy.

Even the new content and events will be too easy ...

- at the same time a possible new hard content made only "for" OP weapons leads to faster run through effect. ... exhausted ... bored.

Because of boredom and so called "lack of content" ... because you already owned by power creep ...

- it makes public games too widespreaded if it comes to damage output. > more complains.

- it decreases amount of "useful" weapons. Also leading to complains like: You have problems with Dera? Noob you need Soma.

- it kills weapon diversity

- it splits the community

etc.

New damage 2.0 is good step towads sidegrades.

Damage saturation fits more with lore (due to tech limits), kills power creep, makes more content enjoyable, faster implentation of new content etc.

Damage scale via weapon specific forma multiplier could even more improve the game expirience.

You sir, have made one of the most intellectually, logically, and reasonably sound posts that is so irrefutable that I fail to see how anybody could possibly disagree.

 

This is pretty much what I have been trying to say for so long posted into words.

 

[Myocarde]

Stop qq, Brakk supposed to be close range weapon. Soma deserve probably a nerf since there is no Orokin tech in it yet, (compared to clan weapons or primes).

It's not about Brakk nerf, it's about the fall-off mechanic, that is completely wrong. Huge pellet spread with pellets keeping their velocity still makes a short range weapon. Yes, in real life bullets/pellets do loose their velocity/energy due to air resistance. Just seems that in Warframe air is really thick. Like water. "NURF WARFRAIM AIR PLOX".

 

 

 

...

And again there is no need and no reason for OP weapons. Your argument about need of OP weapons for high level survival and defense is invalid, since ...

- only enemy level changes, and you reach damage saturation anyway. level X or Y doesnt matter at the end ...

- it breakes lore content balance, leading to complains: too easy.

Even the new content and events will be too easy ...

- at the same time a possible new hard content made only "for" OP weapons leads to faster run through effect. ... exhausted ... bored.

Because of boredom and so called "lack of content" ... because you already owned by power creep ...

...

 

  As to all this... Not speaking about developers, but why would you, personally. deny the people who actually like endless defense and survival (myself included) their fun and their toys? And sidegrades will make the game boring even faster than the "power creep" you're so afraid of. Just think about it. Check out the Braton series. It's a perfect sidegrade illustration, with a slight stat fluctuation to it. It can be easily made into 1 gun, that nobody cares for anyways. What is the point of this incredible "diversity", aside from "ranking up rank", being another pointless activity?

 

  In the current game environment only the gun damage (supported by warframe abilities) gives a sense of progression. You get better mods, better guns, potato, polarise -> you take on harder and harder enemies, progress through missions/solar system. And developers don't care about the lore for this game. It's the players that do, and devs just try to follow. It's one of the explanations why lab/prime guns can be weaker than new shop guns, the other being "BUY PLATINUM FAST!".

 

  Gearscore-based or rank-based grouping option can be a good solution to all the crying. But no easymode-carry for the newbies, then.

[ASH_PRIME]

15 meter range damage falloff

A PAINTBALL gun doesn't lose velocity at 15 meters!

what a joke



 

[ASH_PRIME]

Sad but true, as it's happened time and time again, but DE pretty much has been doing this:

1. Release something new that is way OP and throws off game balance

2. Wait for everyone to rush and buy it and forma the crap out of it ($$$)

3. Nerf weapon into the ground

4. Repeat step 1

-if the community makes loud enough noise about it-

5. Make vauge promises to fix said gear

6. several months later when people have given up on it, fix it. or, if the community has made loud noise about how gear is not as good as x gear and DE promises to make them simialar instead nerf x gear into the ground, wait several weeks and repeate step 5

I really, REALLY had high hopes for this game in CBT but I just can't see myself being able to get invested in the game again with this roller coaster nerf and buff cycle.

 

Its sad how accurate this post is.

I know my clan sure isn't gunna waste 7 hours on the next event just for the opportunity to have another 'exclusive' weapon ruined by a knee jerk nerf reaction weeks afterwards after 4 phuking forma is used on it

 

[Lumdalumlum]

15 meter range damage falloff

A PAINTBALL gun doesn't lose velocity at 15 meters!

what a jokeh

Well 15m in game is logical. All the rooms are so small incomparision. Maybe 20m will be a better choice

[ASH_PRIME]

There is NOTHING logical behind the hair brained scheme to piss off a huge portion of your loyal fan base who spent 5-7 hours working for an exclusive weapon and then spending the next few weeks Formaing it and enjoying it, only to nerf it into the ground with a ludicrous 'falloff damage' nerf

Falloff damage is a COD inspired POS mechanic and needs to be abandoned entirely.

The 'Logical' decision is the make all the shotgun style weapons spread increase over range [but not ridiculously so] but the damage remains the same

I REALLY think the DE team should go and spend a day at a firing range and see how firearms handle and perform at ranges from 25 meters to 500 meters,  my freakn .22 plinker rifle is still good to 100 metres ffs