Grineer Enemy Bugs And Comments

[MJ12]

In general this is just a commentary on the Grineer as they stand.

First off, let me say that I'm going to refrain from commenting on Nervos in this thread. This is a Nervo-free zone.

Second off, let me just say that the Grineer aesthetic is pretty cool for a bunch of ugly clones. So without further ado, let's get started.

Grineer Melee

The problem with Grineer melee units is that Grineer melee units suck. They've got the low HP of standard Grineer, no armor, they aren't that fast, and most of them don't have any redeeming qualities. They should be threatening enough that you don't just accidentally gun them down.

Grineer melee units should get a slight (10-25%?) health buff and some level of armor (say, 25 or 50 flat, with no increase during levels). That would make them more durable than Corpus stun prod guys, which would make them actually useful. Grineer Flameblades (who need to actually have... flaming swords) have an interesting mechanic in that they teleport, but the other two melee units don't.

I suggest on that part:

1. Add Grineer Electroprods (Slash Dash and all) back as basic melee enemies. You can already see a boss version in Tyr Regor, but a mook version with a lower-damage dash move would be great.

2. Sawmen need to run somewhat faster. Pretend they have sprint speed mods.

3. Powerfist guys should charge up somewhat faster and possibly have cloaking (they should, in that case, decloak when charging their melee attack). Doing some damage direct to health is an okay mechanic if used sparingly but they really don't have any threat because of their relatively low HP and the time it takes for them to charge an attack

Seekers

The first order of business is that Nervos are-

Ah right, where was I? Seekers, like Grineer Commanders, are an enemy with a major problem.

They use damage resistance. Damage resistance, because it isn't actually affected by armor piercing weapons, makes them inordinately tough against weapons specialized against Grineer. They're labeled as 'heavily armored', they should have armor.

The second problem is that they have less damage resistance than standard Grineer have armor, which means they fall quite fast to weapons that aren't specialized against Grineer.

And the third and final problem is their Affinity-on-death? 50? The same as a Lancer? For one of the most controversial enemies with more HP, special abilities, and a really high damage output? They should at least give 150 base plus more per level.

Lancers and Troopers

They actually work now. On the other hand, they should have an actual Grineer rifle and shotgun instead of the Braton and Strun, which look very Corpus-y. Call them the Manticore and the Basilisk or something to keep the Grineer theme going. Stats are negotiable and largely unimportant. They could just be reskins for all it matters.

The other minor quibble I have is that like most armored Grineer, they don't actually have no armor over their face. Ancients show it's possible (they have unarmored legs), so they should have no head armor instead of taking triple headshot damage, because at high levels (like Pluto) even headshots from weapons that don't ignore armor become utterly useless.

Shield Lancers

Shield Lancers are just as tough as regular Lancers and have the shield, but really, really don't look it. That's my main quibble. The second one is that they don't actually treat the shield as 'part of themselves'. It should actually be considered part of the Shield Lancer but with a 0.0x multiplier against most (if not all) attack damage if that wouldn't break how Puncture works on it. That way it'd be easier to use certain powers against them, because I recall Shuriken doesn't go through the shield, and neither do Fireball or Freeze.

Also, like Seekers, Shield Lancers give only 50 base Affinity. They should give at least 100 given how the shield makes it hard to kill them quickly and they have a charging knockdown attack as well as a high-damage sidearm.

Heavy Grineer

Heavy Grineer are fun to fight but aren't very scary. They should be more scary given the rarity of their spawns.

I think the main issue with heavy Grineer is that they have too much variety and specialization. Bombards have the long-range firepower but not the DPS. Napalm has the DPS only if you stand obligingly in their little fire puddles and have even lower DPS if you don't. Minigunners have DPS but are slow to fire and have no crowd control. I think they all should have a heavy primary weapon (Gorgon or Hek) and missile pods on their shoulders or backpack or something, so they can shoot missiles at you while they

Also, although they have tons of HP they don't have as much armor as standard Grineer. I think this should be rectified, with their HP largely unchanged. Like my suggestions for Lancers/Troopers, their heads should be unarmored. The end result is they become a little tougher if you aim for the head and a ton tougher if you aim for the body.

Grineer Commanders

Oh where do I start with them? Let's start with the biggest problem. Like Grineer Seekers, they have DR instead of armor, and a ton of DR. This makes armor piercing weapons useless against them, which is kind of meh given that you bought those to kill Grineer really fast and the ones which pierce armor are either melee (weaker than guns) or Bolt weapons (no Puncture, no criticals).

Then let's talk about how they're immune to chiling, electricity, and apparently being lit on fire. They really are incapable of being locked down or temporarily incapacitated in any way, which seems to be weird given that they aren't actually bosses. Just more elite mooks. This really should be changed.

And finally let's talk about Switch Teleport. Switch Teleport doesn't actually make them 'commanders'. If they were called 'Grineer Trolls' maybe it'd make sense. But as a commander, how does being able to switch teleport work? I suggest scrapping Switch Teleport in their arsenal entirely and giving them a new power. Call it 'Mark'. It'd mark a Tenno in some glowing, visible color, making the enemy focus on that guy as a higher priority and also making them do more damage. Maybe throw in a damage debuff if you really want.

They could in addition to marking targets, be able to temporarily act as a Shield Osprey for a few seconds (i.e. give nearby Grineer 200 extra shields), jam enemy weapons, forcing them to reload, or summon reinforcements. You know, Commander-y things. Those would be cool.

Grinders

More or less everything that needs to be said about Grinders has been said. I don't think I need to say anything about them.

[MrGrae]

Interesting points all round, I agree whole heartedly with the damage resistancy and affinity issues, however I think the varience of the heavies is good, they just need more effective balancing, as for the head armour, I would like those without faceplates to have no head armour, but I believe some of the models are randomised so that may complicate things.

Grinders are a pain in the &#! but I rather like the dynamic they add, adjusting the hitbox to make them less fiddly to kill would be nice but otherwise I don't mind.

The Commanders do seem a bit placeholder at the moment and I agree with the ideas laid out here.

And I agree with the points on melee Grineer, they're flat out too easy to kill, unless you're completely ignoring them they will never be a threat.

Though what are Nervos?! O_o

[Yotan]

Where I feel personally that one or two grinders is trouble some enough per spawn, or in defense unit. Six seems to be beyond even a crew of four to deal with. Perhaps a suggestion to where spawning one per defense unit up to a difficulty two. Then spawn two for difficulty of three, and three for a difficulty of four.

[OmegaPaladin]

Agreed on the damage resistance - it gets very annoying. If anything, I'd rather see the troopers having more armor and the Seekers being akin to Lancers, as the shotgunners are rushing into the fray.

Also, your comments on the Grineer commander are spot on.

Grinders/Rollers need to be easier to hit. Perhaps a crouching low slash would work, or a retuned hitbox, or something. Have the Tenno go play soccer football, or something!