Penta Ammo Capacity

[Voidflow]

Well after testing this nice weapon I can say that ammunition efficiency is crazy ...

Yes even only 40 ammo would be fine. No need to worry about ammo feels just wrong, I mean terrible ... no way it is balanced.

I personaly dont care what will happen with this weapon

I have my doubts that Penta will stay the way it is in current state.

[Brimir]

I dont want to nerf it, i want to fix it. Its broken.

 

Indeed. No-one is talking about nerfing the Penta here; no reduction in damage or radius.

 

Just cut it out with the infinite ammo, DE.

 

Please?

[Dave43]

20 rounds for my penta? Please don't make it unusable DE. I think people who use the bow know they aren't going to be  getting a lot of kills with that weapon.

[Brimir]

20 rounds for my penta? Please don't make it unusable DE.

 

Nobody is asking for either 20 rounds, nor for it to be unusable. There is a middle ground, obviously.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Tell us about your idea of a middle ground.

I played survival yesterday und I rarely got under 530 even. How are you supposed to change/nerf it?

On the other hand, I tried the same with Supra. You may need ammo mutation considering the bad efficiency but then it's fine as well.

So you have to nerf ammo mutation too, or you'll have infinite ammo everywhere. I could even hold out with boar prime.

Embolist was hard, though...

[Brimir]

*sigh* This -again-?

 

Just read the thread. I've mentioned it multiple times now.

[Divinehero]

oh for the love of christ we get it there's an issue w/ the ammo pool of this and the ogris can we please drop it already i'm sick of comim back to this forum every day to find out this topic has grown another 1-3 pages cuz u refuse to let it go and keep tryin to beat us over the head w/ the "problem" TC

 

DE has way more pressing matters then somethin silly like this and as some1 stated awhile back besides weapons like the bows many of the other slower firing weapons essentially have "infinite" ammo too what the hell makes the penta any different

 

i can see the point you're trying to make but ur pretty much just tryin to bludgeon any1 who disagrees w/ u over the head till they stop

Edited December 17, 2013 by Divinehero

[Brimir]

oh for the love of christ we get it there's an issue w/ the ammo pool of this and the ogris can we please drop it already i'm sick of comim back to this forum every day to find out this topic has grown another 1-3 pages cuz u refuse to let it go and keep tryin to beat us over the head w/ the "problem" TC

 

DE has way more pressing matters then somethin silly like this and as some1 stated awhile back besides weapons like the bows many of the other slower firing weapons essentially have "infinite" ammo too what the hell makes the penta any different

 

i can see the point you're trying to make but ur pretty much just tryin to bludgeon any1 who disagrees w/ u over the head till they stop

 

Nobody is forcing you to click on this thread.

[Divinehero]

and no1's forcing u to keep draggin this out, the topic stopped bein constructive awhile ago and it's devolved into a shouting match between you and any1 who disagrees

Edited December 17, 2013 by Divinehero

[Necrosaur]

I think 540 ammo base level is pretty crazy, 100-200 or so would be fine.

[ZeroInferno]

I think 540 ammo base level is pretty crazy, 100-200 or so would be fine.

If it's at 100 or 540, due to the current drop rates of rifle ammo you would not run out of ammo either way. This is a dead horse topic, and should just die off already.

 

Just go play the game, instead of trying to make it less and less enjoyable with silly nerfs for this or that. It's a game, it's not supposed to mimic real life, you're in space for fucks sake fighting space zombies pretty much.

 

What's with everyone and their grandma trying to make this game more like COD? If you want "realism" go out and join the military, get shot at a couple times, and come back to tell me how wonderful that realism was.

 

 

Balance does not always = fun people. Try to keep that in mind

[SIDESTRE4M]

*sigh* This -again-?

 

Just read the thread. I've mentioned it multiple times now.

Jepp, this again and again and again and again, until you realize that it wouldn't change anything because all I ever read is "infinite ammo", which applies to nearly every efficient weapon. Efficient weapons are always limited by other things, so you have to worry about other things. You didn't grasp the concept of the game design at all.

Even if you nerfed Penta or create new ammo pools (I wouldn't disagree about that though) or whatever. I will equip ammo mutation if needed and won't feel a difference. You neither.

You won't either get more or less kills, the game difficulty will not change and people just move on.

I'm even surprised that this thread moves on after my rage post with the same bull again.

Have fun with your crusade for great (empty) justice.

[Brimir]

I will equip ammo mutation if needed and won't feel a difference.

 

Except for the fact that you have to give up mod capacity and slot for it - as it should be. You should not get infinite ammo because of some design flaw, or the inherent imbalance with the current ammo system. The core question (which none of you have answered) is:

 

Why should the Penta/Ogris/Torid get this for free?

Edited December 17, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo
Removed offensive remark

[SIDESTRE4M]

I said: "if needed"

Of course the condition for that would be the following:

- New ammunition pool with very rare drops.

- Huge nerf for capacity to very low stats

- reduced gains from picked up ammo drops

- optionally a seperate ammo mutation mod with reduced effect

I hope you see now, that you can't change the nature of a weapon so easily.

Therefore I trying to tell everyone that a nerf like everyone proposes here is pointless.

You want to have an effecient weapon nerfed so hard that it's on par with machine guns, which is neither fair, nor plausible.

I told a hundred times that there are a lot if weapons which give you the comfort of not having to worry about ammo but instead have low fire rates and/or long reload times, small magazines, charge mechanics, and so on.

Would you equip ammo mutation on a lex? Is it fair? Please answer this honestly.

Ammo mutation mods are meant to soften the disadvantage of fast firing weapons with bad ammo economy, not as standard for every weapon.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[NoxHender]

So, you are telling that we have to set an ammo pool of (near 80) and add them ammo mutator? and then you are happy?

 

why I'm wasting my time here?

[Brimir]

I hope you see now, that you can't change the nature of a weapon so easily.

 

 

No, just like each other time you've repeated yourself you've failed to convince myself and others in this thread. A dozen wrongs do not make a right - the ammo system on a whole needs a rework. Ogris/Torid/Penta are just the worst offenders.

 

Hmm.. Probably the third time I've said that now.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Brimir

[HillsAndTheSea]

i actually agree, and the solution to this is extremly simple.

 

rocket launchers should should use sniper ammo.

 

even the miter uses sniper ammo (and its basically a launcher weapon), so i dont see why rocket launchers cant use it too. they can even be given an increased capacity ala grakata, but thats not even necessary, 5/72 rockets is way more than enough. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

No, just like each other time you've repeated yourself you've failed to convince myself and others in this thread. A dozen wrongs do not make a right - the ammo system on a whole needs a rework. Ogris/Torid/Penta are just the worst offenders.

 

Hmm.. Probably the third time I've said that now.

 

So you disapprove of the existence of ammo efficient weapons as whole, despite it beeing just one aspect of game balancing.

If that's the case then you should open a separate thread to discuss this, because we won't come to a consens anyways because I approve of this aspect.

 

Reasons are easy: The downside of those weapons which are ammo efficient have other downsides hindering you. I listed them above.

If you can't accept this reality, then what can I say?

 

Start a thread an see if people agree with you. That's far beyond the scale of Penta/Ogris/Torid alone.

You obviously want every weapon to apply to ammo economy risks,

 

With this, every weapon would need a rebalancing. Weapons like Lex and launchers would lose a bit on their side.

 

And for what exactly? Warframe is about killing with style and not like resident evil, where you have to care for each damn shot. I wouldn't want that version of Warframe and I'm sure I'm not alone with this.

 

EDIT: Last but not least: I'm not at your mercy justifying my "broken" weapon, because it's not the system alone and it is you who want a change and a huge one, to add. It is not my duty to justify the current game because it is not to your liking. I told you how it is and even agreed to possible changes. You want to discuss primary standards of the game. That are two different stories.

 

Many people here see only one aspect and that is the huge ammo pool for penta. That was the beginning. There is a lot more to it than just that aspect alone.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Baigan]

Reasons are easy: The downside of those weapons which are ammo efficient have other downsides hindering you. I listed them above.

If you can't accept this reality, then what can I say?

 

Start a thread an see if people agree with you. That's far beyond the scale of Penta/Ogris/Torid alone.

You obviously want every weapon to apply to ammo economy risks,

 

I have to correct a misconception.

 

Torid has been utterly broken by damage 2.0. It no longer damages you. However, the damage was front loaded to the grenade, and the gas cloud ticks once every other second, if that. A decently modded Torid with maxed serration hits for 1000 on flesh with a direct hit, and the cloud ticks for 210 once or twice before vanishing. Or the enemy moving away. Its sort of a bad joke right now, since everything that made it an interesting choice is gone.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, carry on with your crusade Brim.

[Brimir]

So you disapprove of the existence of ammo efficient weapons as whole, despite it beeing just one aspect of game balancing.

 

Not per say.

 

The problem is that this type of balancing is totally out of whack. The weapons that practically puke ammo have no real advantage in any other field to warrant it. Take a look at the Boar Prime, for example - it just does less damage than other Shotguns with a higher RoF. Shotguns that do a lot of damage per blast, like Hek and S.Wraith, kills things just as quickly. There's no advantage to the Boar Prime to compensate (other than it looks freakin' cool and spins when firing/reloading).

 

The only weapon that is sorta balanced in this regard is, ironically, the Soma. Yes it is powerful as all hell, but unless you run with a Mutator it will run out of ammo real quick.

[SIDESTRE4M]

@Baigan:<And what does this have to do with ammo economy? There is the question if it was meant to be that strong or not. Damage 2.0 and many weapons need tweaking and there are still a lot of missing solutions for various things.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[SIDESTRE4M]

Not per say.

 

The problem is that this type of balancing is totally out of whack. The weapons that practically puke ammo have no real advantage in any other field to warrant it. Take a look at the Boar Prime, for example - it just does less damage than other Shotguns with a higher RoF. Shotguns that do a lot of damage per blast, like Hek and S.Wraith, kills things just as quickly. There's no advantage to the Boar Prime to compensate (other than it looks freakin' cool and spins when firing/reloading).

 

The only weapon that is sorta balanced in this regard is, ironically, the Soma. Yes it is powerful as all hell, but unless you run with a Mutator it will run out of ammo real quick.

 

Yeah, that is true. The Balancing is another problem right now and has probably ever been. I started to polarize the boar prime lately and see if I could get a proper build out of it. Not so sure if that idea was good or not. However I learned that this weapon runs out very quickly without delivering huge blows, so ammo mutation is a must for this. They even nerfed Boar Prime lately, which I cannot understand either.

 

Don't misunderstand, I don't believe that everything is fine like it currently is. There are so many things to do. This topic however I see a bit different because I had the impression that most of the people crying out for penta nerf didn't thought it all well through and demanded unneccessary changes that would have practically proven pointless at the current game situation.

 

EDIT: @Brimir: I'm sorry, the last post wasn't meant for you.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Brimir]

I've got.... 4 Forma on my Boar Prime. You don't see it used often, so I feel special, and it spins! But yeah, without a Mutator it'd be useless.

 

As for the "nerf"... I dunno. I'd call it an "adjustment". I think they lowered Critical Hit % (which doesn't impact it much, as multiple pellets offers lots of chances to crit) from 25% to 15%, but gave it more base damage.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Wasn't there something about the status chance too? I have yet to try it out more after Damage 2.0.

 

I beleive mine has two or three formas now but it is not 30 yet. I found the Penta to be more fun to play with for the meanwhile, but my reasons where identical to yours.

 

I even forma'd Kraken once. Originally I planned more, but lost the motivation after it was 30 again.

 

Refering to topic, I think without a complete overhaul, the situation will remain, even if an easier to deploy fix like changing ammo type to sniper ammo, it would go in the right direction but ultimately won't bear the fruits we wish for.

[ThePresident777]

How is it "inane"? It makes these weapons ridiculously powerful.

 

 

Compare how much mayhem you get per Ogris rocket or Penta grenade vs. per arrow from any of the longbows.

 

It is rather silly.

 

I like silly.