Practical "realistic" Damage 2.0

[superbot34]

The following chart, and it's explanations, are based on a more "realistic" standpoint of my  own design. They do not reflect the current system, nor reflect my wishes for the damage 2.0 system. This merely fiddles with the current system and attempts to base it on actual physics or processes, then takes in account the game how it is now. The chart is an edited version found on the official warframe wikia. Also on a side note, i just figured out this site accepts BBcode. Hooray!

 

This also shows you why DE can't make a damage system that is completely based on "Actual" physics or processes.

Enemy Types:

Shields

Shields are all based on a strong magnetic repulsion field, blocking most physical projectiles, although Puncture has more force then the others so it does a bit more damage.

Armor

Armor is based on either Iron plating or tightly woven iron meshes, blocking most physical projectiles and shielding from elemental hazards, but puncture has enough force to puncture through armor.

Grineer Flesh

Grineer flesh is composed of mostly water, and also contains electronic enhancements that are slightly weak to electrical damage.

Corpus Flesh

Corpus flesh is composed mostly of water, and because of that slightly weak to electrical damage.

Infested

Infested are composed of both Flesh, and composed of an electronic nano-virus and as such, has a balance of weaknesses that both flesh and robotics share. Due to mostly decomposing or partially connective, impact deals slightly more damage due to shaking them apart.

Robotics

Robotics are electronic machines, with light armor covering their bodies. (does not relate to the Armor resistance) They are more resistance to slashing damage due to their armored outer layers.

Physical Damage Types:

Impact

Much like a physical explosion, impact as as much force as puncture, but spread out over a larger area. This makes it less effective against armor. Impact damage is described as the expansion of air surrounding the projectile making the target create a larger 'push', thus shields block the damage from reaching the target. A real world example would be explosive rounds.

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• Proc causes knockback or a brief stunning effect.
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Puncture

Projectiles that travel faster, have a harder and/or sharper point can punch through armor, enough to bypass half of the armor's effects. It also has enough force to put a strain on shields trying to deflect them, doing a slight bonus amount of damage. This however means it passes through the target more easily, doing less damage to flesh and infested. It does however harm the delicate robotics installed in grineer flesh, thus doing slightly more damage. A real world example would be armor piercing bullets.

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• Proc causes the target to bleed, reducing health over time, and the shot that procced will be a guaranteed critical hit that deals double damage directly to health if shields are down.
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Slash

Projectiles that are very sharp, but travel slowly. Slash damage does more damaged to armor due to it's cutting and slashing nature, but much less then Puncture. Fleshy targets get cut up and sliced, doing more to them and infested. An example in the real world would be like tiny throwing stars.

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• Proc causes the target to bleed, reducing health over time, and increases the chance of dealing a critical hit on the target.
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Elemental Damage Types

Cold

Described as a major drop in temperature surrounding the projectile, it bypasses shielding, but armor blocks some of the effects. Flesh freezes a little.

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• Proc causes shields to be reduced, and weapons to fire more slowly due to the freezing effects. Does not slow a target down.
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Electric

Electricity bypasses shields, while also reducing shields due to electronic interference, causing the shields to be slightly effected. Bypasses any armor due to armor conducting electricity, dealing damage directly to flesh. Robotics are very weak to electrical damage due to being made up of mostly delicate circuitry.

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• Proc causes Electrocution to humanoids, stunning them, and temporarily disables the electronics in robots for 3 seconds as they reboot their systems. Shields however, still function during this down period.
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Heat

Like Cold, heat is described as a sudden rise in temperature around the projectile, bypassing shields. Armor acts as a barrier and reduces heat's effects. Causes flesh to burn, dealing extra damage. Robotics also resist this damage.

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• Proc causes burning, causing a Dot damage to be applied, reduced by armor. Enemies are not stunned, but causes weapons to overheat, jamming Grineer weapons and reducing accuracy of corpus ones.
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Toxin

Toxin can refer to a few things, a liquid poison, or a gas. since gas is already a damage type, i stuck with liquid. Bypasses shields, slightly corrodes armor, and does extra to flesh. Robotics are resistant to toxins.

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• Proc causes a 25% reduction in armor and robotic health, and a sicken effect in humanoids.
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Combined Elemental Types

Blast

Described as the rapid expansion of air in a small area, blast ignores shields but simply pushes armor and robotics, doing less against them. Does normal damage to flesh and infested.

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• Proc causes knockdown and a blinding effect like a flash grenade, reducing enemy accuracy for 3 seconds after recovering from knockdown.
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Corrosive

Corrosive, like toxin, ignores shields and erodes armor and robotics, but at a much higher rate due to rapid oxidation. Deals a slight increase in damage to health due to it's corrosive toxin, although less lethal than pure toxin.

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• Proc causes a reduction in armor, and jams weapons temporarily.
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Gas

Gas damage is like airborne poison. Bypassing shields, it is less corrosive to armor and robotics but does a bit more damage, and causes flesh to burn with toxic gas. Infested are weak to this damage due to the fact they are both slightly electronic but mostly flesh.

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• Proc causes a slight reduction in armor, a health DoT that bypasses armor, and a sicken effect.
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Magnetic

Magnetic damage tampers with shield systems and robotics, doing extra to those units.

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• Proc causes the target to become magnetized.
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Radiation

Radiation describes the rapid decay of atoms, bullets or energy projectiles are infused with a radioactive metal or gas. Armor and robotics shield against this type of damage, but destroys the cells of flesh rapidly.

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• Proc causes confusion and a sicken effect, causing them to temporarily attack other enemies while reducing max health.
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Viral

Viral is described as a potent, physical virus. Shields and armor resist these particles, but flesh and infested are very weak to this damage type. Deals 0 damage to robotic enemies (will still deal 75% damage to their shields) but will still proc.

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• Proc causes a sicken and health Dot effect.
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Status Effects Explained

Some of the status effects explained, if not explained above.

Critical Hit

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• Causes that shot to deal a guaranteed hit that deals 50% more damage. This overwrites a weapon's critical damage (with a 5.5x soma it will only deal 1.5 for that shot, but it helps less powerful weapons only)
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• Can be procced from: Puncture
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+Critical Chance

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• Increases your teams weapons crit chance by 100% for 5 seconds on that particular target, allowing weapons with a lower critical chance to have a better chance at dealing a critical hit.
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• Has no effect on weapons with 0 critical chance.
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• Passive increase, weapon with 50% critical chance will have 100% crit chance for 5 seconds on that enemy.
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• Can be procced from: Slash
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Bleed/Health DoT

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• Although similar, bleed causes a 10 DoT sec/5 seconds whereas Health DoT only causes 5 DoT.
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• Bleed causes visual blood where Health DoT does not.
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• Can be procced from: Slash, Puncture, Gas, Viral
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-Fire Rate

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• Reduces an enemy's fire rate of their weapon by 50%. Has no effect on melee attacks or speed.
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• Can be procced from: Cold
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Burn

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• Causes a Heat DoT on the target dealing 10% of that weapon's damage shot per second for 5 seconds on the target as heat, affected by armor. Will deal very high damage to infested.
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• Can be procced by: Heat
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Overheat

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• Causes weapons to overheat, jamming clunky grineer weapons for 3 seconds, and reducing the accuracy of more sturdy corpus weapons, as the heat damage warps the metal.
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• Can be procced from: Heat
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Sicken

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• Causes a direct health toxin DoT, dealing 10% of that weapon's damage shot per second for 5 seconds. bypasses armor and shields, But will deal 5% damage instead to robotics.
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• Can be procced from: Toxin, Gas, Radiation, Viral
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Confusion

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• Causes enemies to attack the nearest enemy for 5 seconds. Causes some enemies to focus their attention on the affected enemy for a short time.
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• Can be procced from: Radiation
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Magnetize

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• Magnetizing has variable effects. Against enemies with Armor, bullets within a 10 meter radius of the target will turn and strike them. Against Flesh, it causes a sicken effect due to it messing with the iron in the blood and pulling it around, causing 5 DoT for 10 seconds. Against Robotics, it causes the actuators in the legs (or the movement motors in rollers) to stop, forcing the enemy to be immobile for 5 seconds. MOA's can still operate their guns, but Fusion Moas cannot release drones during this period.
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Misleading Notes: This system makes weapons like the Torid and Embolist to change. Torid's grenades deal viral damage on impact, and Gas clouds. the Embolist deals Gas damage.

Edited December 14, 2013 by superbot34

[Cobalt313]

I appreciate having more varied damage bonuses among the types, but not these particular numbers. I seriously don't think any one type should be effective or ineffective against all types at once, it kinda defeats the purpose of having multiple types.

[superbot34]

I appreciate having more varied damage bonuses among the types, but not these particular numbers. I seriously don't think any one type should be effective or ineffective against all types at once, it kinda defeats the purpose of having multiple types.

you didn't read the first line, did you? im showing people that say "wouldn't damage A do more damage to enemy A?" like how radiation in real life destroys cells, yet does normal damage to flesh with the current system. Im pointing it out that if De wanted to actually implement a damage system based on actual real-life physics, it would look like this. plus, i also added a fun twist of better procs.

[superbot34]

bump

[Cobalt313]

you didn't read the first line, did you? im showing people that say "wouldn't damage A do more damage to enemy A?" like how radiation in real life destroys cells, yet does normal damage to flesh with the current system. Im pointing it out that if De wanted to actually implement a damage system based on actual real-life physics, it would look like this. plus, i also added a fun twist of better procs.

Why would DE care about realism in a game about space ninjas in bio-suits?

 

The main concern in designing a video game like this usually isn't realism, but rather balance; make each type work better in some places while other types could excel in others. You don't want any one type to be too good at everything to the point you won't need any other types, and neither do you want any one type to be bad at everything so no players will want anything to do with it. Yes in real life blunt impacts might not be as effective as slashing or piercing damage (and I'm even unsure of that), but how would it affect game balance if you had one particular physical damage type that on all accounts sucked? Not in a good way, I assure you.

[superbot34]

Why would DE care about realism in a game about space ninjas in bio-suits?

 

The main concern in designing a video game like this usually isn't realism, but rather balance; make each type work better in some places while other types could excel in others. You don't want any one type to be too good at everything to the point you won't need any other types, and neither do you want any one type to be bad at everything so no players will want anything to do with it. Yes in real life blunt impacts might not be as effective as slashing or piercing damage (and I'm even unsure of that), but how would it affect game balance if you had one particular physical damage type that on all accounts sucked? Not in a good way, I assure you.

this has nothing to do with DE. people have been complaining about how some damage types don't make any sense, like radiation. radiation should do extra against flesh but it dosn't. this chart does two things. 1. show what a damage type table would look like if the game was based on damages that actually made sense and 2. shows why DE can't make damage 2.0 realistic.  

[VoidWraith]

Sometimes for the sake of "balance", some amount of realism is taken out.

 

Does it make sense? Not always.

 

This is why games that have realism in it, is very good, but then too much of it, and people will think the game is hard or way too realistic to be "liked".

 

While your table seems good, and "realistic" it is unbalanced in that it sets people to favor a certain build type like sticking to electric or gas.

Edited December 16, 2013 by VoidWraith

[superbot34]

Sometimes for the sake of "balance", some amount of realism is taken out.

 

Does it make sense? Not always.

 

This is why games that have realism in it, is very good, but then too much of it, and people will think the game is hard or way too realistic to be "liked".

 

While your table seems good, and "realistic" it is unbalanced in that it sets people to favor a certain build type like sticking to electric or gas.

which is why i said i don't want this implemented into the game. this is what it would look like if the damage table made sense. people were complaining when they changed heat so it didn't do damage to infested, because it makes sense that it would do damage to them, and DE changed it back. so my blog is actually pretty relevant. 

[Cobalt313]

which is why i said i don't want this implemented into the game. this is what it would look like if the damage table made sense. people were complaining when they changed heat so it didn't do damage to infested, because it makes sense that it would do damage to them, and DE changed it back. so my blog is actually pretty relevant. 

If you don't actually want to see this in the game then you might want to have this moved somewhere other than "fan suggestions"; it sends the wrong message and makes everyone walk into this with the wrong mindset to get the message you're trying to send.

[TheThreadWeaver]

Wow. It's surprising how many people failed to read the first paragraph and line of your post. Maybe you should put up a disclaimer at the beginning of the post, underlined and in bold, and in a dazzling array of neon colors. That might help.

 

On topic, yes. This is a fairly nice visual rebuttal of the current conversation regarding damage and why it can't be "realistic." Good work.