[Elements 2.0]High Rof Weapons Vs Low Rof Weapons, Etc.

[MagpieOAO]

Proc rates

I assume it may already be planned, but my 2c is a pretty intrinsic bit. With exceptions (Weapons gotta have personality after all) slower RoF weapons should have higher ele proc chances, while elemental weapons should rest on top of the higherarchy with the highest base proc rate.

 

IE:

• Ogris and Torrid should have massive chances to proc by default...probably like 75% moddable up to 100%
  
• Grataka is fun, but I don't think it should be proccing as much as it is (once other weapons get good proc rates)
  
• Ignis and Flux; Despite being ele weapons, they probably don't need high base proc rates due to RoF, but higher than most. Probably a max of 75% or so.
  

 

Elemental higherarchy:Choosing the proc

Not rocket science, like I said this is probably already in the works and it's pretty intrinsic, but another bit for consideration is that not all ele procs are equal. Fire is nice and all, but a 100% confusion rocket from the Ogris could be $&*&*#(%& good. On top of this, lets say I mod my Ogris for confusion at a huge expense of points, but I'm always proccing fire. Dafauq.

 

Imo a good way of dealing with this would be to simply put whatever element has the highest BASE damage (before resistances are applied, so basically whatever you have more points into) is either the only thing with a chance to proc, or a signifigantly higher chance to proc with others having a chance to proc in addition to it.

 

So even if I have an ogris with fire and radiation, despite the fact fire will do far more damage to them (Due to bonuses/resistances) my radiation is maxed and res/bo aside, technically has the higher damage and is thus the first proc to be rolled on by the system. If a proc is successful, radiation will hit. It will then roll on remaining elements, continuing the hierarchy.

 

Elemental Higherarchy:Strengthening the effect

Another bit that I feel should be tied in, Damage = time of life for the proc.

IE I'm spraying people with a grataka and lighting them on fire, each burn applied should probably only last a few moments. In theory you could even have the damage done be a timer of sorts (Dmg/.X=Duration). That way a fire proc applied by the ignis lasts for a few moments, while fire applied by vectis would last a good bit longer.

 

 

Again, pretty sure this is all in the works, but figured I may as well chip in.

[Tsukinoki]

The problem with giving continuous fire weapons high proc rates is that they then become unstoppable.

You take the ignis, and if you have higher than a 20%(do take into account that 1 ammo used = 1 chance to proc against everything being hit. At a base rate of 11.7 chances to proc per second, and that is per target in the cone of fire, which can be a lot of enemies at times) and you mod it for blast...well nothing will ever be able to stand on its feet near you as you are able to perma-stun every single enemy in the game with nearly no effort. That would make any continuous fire weapon move into the OP category.

I do agree that they should balance proc chances around a weapons base ROF. That would mean snipers would have a better chance at affecting enemies than someone with an afuris, but it would still balance out over time.

I while I would also like to see procs being weighted towards how much damage that they do the biggest issue is that in most cases that would make them so unlikely to proc on the physical elements as to make those elements even more worthless than they currently are. And Impact/Puncture are god-sends when used against bosses because it lowers their damage and can even stun-lock bosses if you have them proc at a decent rate.

So while it sounds like a good idea, I would rather not have those physical elements being relegated to something that will almost never proc simply because they deal less damage than the elemental damage.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[AmmoRejected]

well nothing will ever be able to stand on its feet near you as you are able to perma-stun every single enemy in the game with nearly no effort.

 

Ogris could never suffer from this effect. A rocket should never leave anything on it's feet. It does base blast, so I think it's proc rate should be high, given it's low fire rate. Modded with other elemental effects, it would simply become a liquid nitrogen/gas/incendiary/emp/acid/contagion bomb. (effects modified via update) 

[Tsukinoki]

@AmmoRejected

I agree that the ogris, being what it is, should have a very high stat effect. Coupled with its danger of shooting an enemy too close and its slow rate of fire/reload giving it a very high proc chance would be perfectly warranted.

I was merely referring to continuous fire weapons that can affect potentially large groups: ignis, embolist. Those weapons shouldn't get proc chances that high unless they suffer a major downside in some way. Otherwise they would be proccing a ridiculous amount of times per second against large groupings of enemies. And depending on what element you've modded those weapons for they would utterly trivialize even level 100+ enemies.

But again, I agree that there are weapons that should be enjoying a very high proc chance, namely Ogris and sniper rifles. I would even be willing to toss in the Torid into that list.

[MagpieOAO]

@AmmoRejected

I agree that the ogris, being what it is, should have a very high stat effect. Coupled with its danger of shooting an enemy too close and its slow rate of fire/reload giving it a very high proc chance would be perfectly warranted.

I was merely referring to continuous fire weapons that can affect potentially large groups: ignis, embolist. Those weapons shouldn't get proc chances that high unless they suffer a major downside in some way. Otherwise they would be proccing a ridiculous amount of times per second against large groupings of enemies. And depending on what element you've modded those weapons for they would utterly trivialize even level 100+ enemies.

But again, I agree that there are weapons that should be enjoying a very high proc chance, namely Ogris and sniper rifles. I would even be willing to toss in the Torid into that list.

Yeah that reminds me of a bit I forgot to add, not all elements are equal, basically CC elements (Confusion, Blast) and special elements (Electric, Gas) might need some tweaks to prevent them from getting entirely out of hand. Maybe an internal CD of a sort, or limited effect.

 

As for physical procs, two solutions already exist in what I posed:

One, they still have a chance to proc. It's just that the first thing rolled (and thus most likely) is your highest element

Two, you can make slash/impact/etc higher easily via Serration/Hornet/etc+ The mod specifically for that damage type.

 

So basically, you don't HAVE to go element, you can also "Spec" into a physical element if you prefer, and having one with the priority does not exclude other things from proccing.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Kriegson

[Tsukinoki]

@Kriegson
The problem I bring up with having the elemental damage procs happen a lot more often physical procs, and at times physical procs are more useful (such as impact versus most bosses) is this:
I take a braton.
IPS is 6.6/6.6/6.8.
I put on a 90% serration + 30% Piercing hit.
IPS is now 12.5/16.3/12.9
I put on a 60% toxin mod which adds 22.8 toxin damage.

If you put on serration + elemental mod the element will always have a higher damage than any of your physical categories.  More so with the combined elements.
And at times its nice to know that even if I want to add magnetic damage to my weapons I still have an equal chance of proccing any of the physical effects along with magnetic instead of knowing that the chances of proccing physical will be so rare compared to proccing magnetic as to make them practically worthless.