Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Putting a toxin into a machine and having it get destroyed means you lose the toxin in real life. Why should this be any different? Because this is a video game and not a simulation of real life. We don't play games to deal with the same frustrations we may have to deal with in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splatter_Puppet Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Solo'd it this morning after 2 failed attempts, and I'm going to try again later to help a friend. It was indeed a pain to farm for the plants, but having an option for solo play comes with the trade-off of more work imo. My advice is to get the farming done up front so that you can make 3-4 antitoxins, then try to get through the defense mission. Bring frost if you can (Nyx or Rhino are also good alternatives) and keep exiting if you get an injector tile without the wall on the one side of the tank. When you get the right tile, keep snow-globes on the 3 uncovered sides. I brought a multi-forma'd Ignis to hit large clumps of enemies, but in hindsight I think it might go smoother if you bring something with a bit more range and kick, like the Soma. Bring lots of Health/Ammo/Energy packs. And, if you can, see if you can get at least one other person to join you to help take care of some of the onslaught, or go online and hope that you get pared with a good team. I also won't lie and say that all this will make it easy, because there is still a bit of luck involved, and only a handful of Warframes can survive. This is not an easy event for solo players, but at least the option is there now, so I'm not going to complain. There is also plenty of time to take a break from it and try again when you are less burned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFOLoche Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) No, I'm referring to normal void keys (tower 1,2,3). Those are not consumed upon failure. The corruptors from the fomorian event are what I was referring to in the second part of the post. If those were also consumed regardless of failure then nevermind. If they weren't consumed upon failure (just like normal void keys are not consumed if you go in and fail the mission) then it would be nice if the toxins weren't either. I don't find solo play even remotely viable unless you are using a handful of frames or have ridiculously powerful gear. The game does not cater very well to solo play at all in my opinion and this event is no exception. You should not be having an even harder time solo than you would if you played online. I don't find it to be balanced at all and until it CAN be balanced properly I think that yes, maybe things should be a bit easier if you're playing in solo mode. Just the fact that you have three other team mates who can revive you is massive. If you make one mistake playing solo you're done, that's it. Either waste a revive if you have one and hope it's not too late or start over completely. I'm not asking to be able to solo hours of survival or defense missions but it would be nice if it were easy enough for the average player to finish this mission solo on most frames with good gear. A handful of frames? I'm pretty sure Ember, Excalibur, Frost, Loki, Mag, Nekros, Nova, Nyx, Rhino, Saryn, Vauban, and Volt could solo it. Valkyr and Trinity would depend A LOT more on their gear but probly wouldn't have trouble, and I haven't used Banshee, Ash, or Oberon, so I refuse to speak for them. That's HARDLY a handful, also, I know of a metric ton of weapons that could be more than sufficient for the situation. Mind you, I'm only talking about this event, which is the problem at hand. But also, it's important to note that, if you're playing solo, then you have to face the fact that you have to pick up the slack and some strategies might not be as efficient or viable due to the lack of teammates, a loss of ammo, etc. And yes, you SHOULD be having a harder time solo, because it's a Co-op based game. Keep in mind I'm a man who generally plays solo. So I know what it's like to play solo. Edited December 21, 2013 by UFOLoche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) And yes, you SHOULD be having a harder time solo, because it's a Co-op based game. Keep in mind I'm a man who generally plays solo. So I know what it's like to play solo. I guess we'll just have to disagree then. If it has a solo mode I expect it to be solo friendly rather than one person playing a co op game alone. Borderlands would be the perfect example, you can do everything solo but things scale up dramatically with the more people you have playing. Mind you the game could be absolutely infuriating solo sometimes but it's still doable, the difference is you can retry as many times as you want and you are not forced to spend additional hours "gathering" things just to try again. Edited December 21, 2013 by Seraphyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFOLoche Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) I guess we'll just have to disagree then. If it has a solo mode I expect it to be solo friendly rather than one person playing a co op game alone. Borderlands would be the perfect example, you can do everything solo but things scale up dramatically with the more people you have playing. Mind you the game could be absolutely infuriating solo sometimes but it's still doable, the difference is you can retry as many times as you want and you are not forced to spend additional hours "gathering" things just to try again. ...Borderlands 2...solo friendly.. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Ooh boy, sorry, that's just a REAL good one. Guess UHVM and the raid bosses aren't things. Edit:I just wanted to point out that my whole point is that your example is a LOT less solo-friendly, sure, in Warframe, you'll have to farm more if you screw up, but that's just how the game works, it's punishing you slightly(And I emphasize slightly due to how long the event is going to be and the fact that spawn rates for the rare plants has been beefed up), but it's not like Borderlands 2 where the bosses CONSTANTLY regen health if you retreat to recoop, or where you have to constantly switch between slag weapons and normal weapons just to do decent damage, whereas these problems are IMMENSELY mitigated by playing co-op. Edited December 21, 2013 by UFOLoche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxseedlexx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I found 2 jade leafs in 3 runs and 3 more runs later I find two in one map lucky day when I finish that anti toxin and get a team should I play as Trin or Saryn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) ...Borderlands 2...solo friendly.. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Ooh boy, sorry, that's just a REAL good one. Guess UHVM and the raid bosses aren't things. Both 1 and 2 are very solo friendly. Raid bosses are raid bosses, those are a very small amount of content compared to the rest of the game (and they're still very much possible solo)... UVHM, no, that is not difficult at all. The only thing that becomes far too difficult to solo is OP1-8 things but again, the intent behind that was not even remotely for it to be solo friendly. They are specifically trying to cater to solo players in some way with this event and it's not good enough to just give them the possibility of achieving 100 points with no other changes to the event/difficulty. You can beat the entire game solo on all playthroughs. You can beat 90% of the bosses solo. You can beat all of the dlcs solo (excluding Digistruct Peak probably). Edited December 21, 2013 by Seraphyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es.iiden Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I guess we'll just have to disagree then. If it has a solo mode I expect it to be solo friendly rather than one person playing a co op game alone. Borderlands would be the perfect example, you can do everything solo but things scale up dramatically with the more people you have playing. Mind you the game could be absolutely infuriating solo sometimes but it's still doable, the difference is you can retry as many times as you want and you are not forced to spend additional hours "gathering" things just to try again. no, why should solo mode be made any easier when the game is designed to be a team game, core concepts of the game are meant for team play instead of solo play. just because a game has solo play doesn't mean its also catered to that crowd, it simply means its an alternative. some missions are fine for solo, like exterminate, sabotage, Spy and whatnot if you can do it properly, others are not. Borderlands can be soloed because it was designed for solo AND Co-op, it was designed to be played offline without the need for others because it needed to sell and for console purposes. Apart from bosses(most of them can still be solo'd regardless) the game can be solo'd with relative ease depending on your class. With warframe switching frames is easy and theres a frame for every job... all i can say is prepare next time and don't blame others for your failure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) no, why should solo mode be made any easier when the game is designed to be a team game, core concepts of the game are meant for team play instead of solo play. just because a game has solo play doesn't mean its also catered to that crowd, it simply means its an alternative. some missions are fine for solo, like exterminate, sabotage, Spy and whatnot if you can do it properly, others are not. Borderlands can be soloed because it was designed for solo AND Co-op, it was designed to be played offline without the need for others because it needed to sell and for console purposes. Apart from bosses(most of them can still be solo'd regardless) the game can be solo'd with relative ease depending on your class. With warframe switching frames is easy and theres a frame for every job... all i can say is prepare next time and don't blame others for your failure... Because the option to solo is supported in the game Don't add in something if you are not willing to balance around the issues that come with it. Remove the ability to play in solo mode if you are not willing to put in the time and resources to make it a viable and enjoyable experience. This doesn't mean it has to be easy mode. Borderlands is far from easy solo in many cases. Edited December 21, 2013 by Seraphyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splatter_Puppet Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Because the option to solo is supported in the game Don't add in something if you are not willing to balance around the issues that come with it. Remove the ability to play in solo mode if you are not willing to put in the time and resources to make it a viable and enjoyable experience. This doesn't mean it has to be easy mode. Borderlands is far from easy solo in many cases. As someone who enjoys solo mode from time to time, I would prefer it stay an option (even an unbalanced one) than be removed entirely over one flaw in one event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 As someone who enjoys solo mode from time to time, I would prefer it stay an option (even an unbalanced one) than be removed entirely over one flaw in one event. You would still be able to queue up alone online either in a private match or invite only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es.iiden Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Because the option to solo is supported in the game Don't add in something if you are not willing to balance around the issues that come with it. Remove the ability to play in solo mode if you are not willing to put in the time and resources to make it a viable and enjoyable experience. This doesn't mean it has to be easy mode. Borderlands is far from easy solo in many cases. Just because something is supported doesnt mean you should use it. its an OPTION, OPTIONAL. if you decide to use it you have to deal with the consequences that come along with it for failure. Solo mode is there if you dont want to deal with others or cant, why should it be any different from the MAIN PART OF THE GAME WHICH IS ITS CO-OP? Borderlands is easy if you pick the right class, or it can be a downright nightmare if you dont and even then with how broken some items are, you are literally walking death, comparing that game to this is another mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1ru Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Topic basically says it all. Having to farm for 4 of each type of jadeleaf to only get a single chance to defend a point for seemingly roughly 20-30 minutes full of enemies whose jetpacks fly at the defense point etc. strikes me as absolutely absurd. If you really wanted it to be an option for solo players, why the hell does it expire after one failed try? I'm not going to farm for a few hours to just try to grind out a very long defense mission full of enemies that make it near impossible to keep the core's health up (And if you think a solo player can REALLY shoot all the jetpacks off these guys' backs while keeping eviscerators away and the regular swarms etc, sorry, we can't all be gods at this game like you must be to maintain that for 20+ minutes). Am I alone in thinking this is a joke if this is supposed to enable solo completion of the event for the weapon? you do know vermillion can be used in a team mission, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es.iiden Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Yeah solo will naturally be harder. However, the fact you lose the jade leaf isn't entirely right at all. We never had that situation with previous events. Though that's why co-op should be attempted anyways, for more of a chance of success. It isn't that hard to obtain anyways and everyone, not just people who solo. It's just down to - for some - choice. you lose the jade leaf when you make the anti-toxin, just like how you lose components when you build a weapon or frame. You lose the anti-toxin just like how you lose a vault key when used...thats about the closets comparison you can make and how is that not fair? if you dont use it you dont lose it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Just because something is supported doesnt mean you should use it. its an OPTION, OPTIONAL. if you decide to use it you have to deal with the consequences that come along with it for failure. Solo mode is there if you dont want to deal with others or cant, why should it be any different from the MAIN PART OF THE GAME WHICH IS ITS CO-OP? Borderlands is easy if you pick the right class, or it can be a downright nightmare if you dont and even then with how broken some items are, you are literally walking death, comparing that game to this is another mistake. I'm comparing how the co op and solo works not the entire game. Things get progressively more difficult with the more people you have, it's the opposite for Warframe and I don't think it SHOULD be. And I'm sorry but like I already said, if you're going to add a feature or game mode do it right and put in the effort to make it as good and enjoyable as it can possibly be. Don't add features you CAN'T support or don't want to support. The game being co-op is a huge cop-out for not properly supporting solo mode and frankly, just a poor excuse. Edited December 21, 2013 by Seraphyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger5 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Anti-toxins should only by consumed upon successful completion, like void keys. I mean, if we wanted to be "realistic" and we wanted failure to have "real consequences" then void keys should also be consumed upon failure as well. I would gladly grind this event until the last day to help clanmates... if I knew the vermilions I made were a worthwhile investment. I find myself in a dilemma, I want to do a 4x Vermilion run with my brother, cousin and a clanmate, to contribute for our clan score. But, my brother, cousin and I do not have the most reliable internet connection. The speed is fine, but it cuts out occasionally, and we still haven't been able to find the cause. So, I do not think risking Vermilions is worth it, given the time it takes to make a single Verm antitoxin. We could do a 4x Lapis run, but that would probably hurt the clan score. Thus, the three of us will probably have to leave the clan until the event is over and do our 100 point run separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar-Sandwich Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) Vermillion Anti-toxin. Don't think putting more toxin into the Cicero toxin will get you anything. Edited December 22, 2013 by Quasar-Sandwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terroizer Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Lucky me, I found enough to make 2 vermillion and didn't have to start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueweapon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This thread is a prime example of QQ: "I could make you a sandwich, give you 100, 000$, and massage your back and you would still complain about the type of bread I used." Relevant. people will complain about not being able to complain if eveything was perfect , 4 PLAYER CO OP in beta , DE should keep making the events as such and stop giving in to this solo bullS#&$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys_Awooooo Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 We kinda just did Vermillion right away... wasn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarties Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 What does Vermillion even do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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