Ogris, Penta And Torid Nerf

[Otaiken]

To be fair, a more suitable comparison is if you decreased Nova's total max energy, and I would be fine with that.

 

That last sentence; in my eyes, this game with it's terrible AI and lack luster map design, endgame would just require more thinking and timing due to the "nerfs", that's it. I don't mind that at all.

 

There's a difference between fun and unfair. 

 

You said that Penta is unfair to sniper rifles and bows. Bows for example considered very underpowered weapons.

 

There are many underpowered frames.. isn't the fact that Nova is so strong unfair to them? Oberon for example has pretty good ult, but he has very average stats and his ult is about the only good thing he has, it also has smaller AoE and he has little max energy, even though he's clearly caster frame. Is it unfair to him? Should Nova be brought down to his level?

 

Who exactly is Penta unfair to? And if it is why should be Penta changed as opposed to these weapons it's unfair to.

 

It won't even make much difference to the power of the weapon, it's limitation for the sake of limitation. Just like CD would be. It's just so it makes people feel better.. so yeah.. CD on Nova would certainly make me feel better. Cosmetic change or nerf, doesn't matter. The difference is that I don't try to force people to make changes that make me feel better.

 

You also use the exact same argument. You wouldn't mind the CD because it would make the ability more fun, you couldn't spam and people will be more careful with it. If it's such a great change then I dare you to make a suggestion topic about it in the Warframe forums. Do you think you won't get backlash?

Edited January 3, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Kagumin]

You said that Penta is unfair to sniper rifles and bows. Bows for example considered very underpowered weapons.

 

There are many underpowered frames.. isn't the fact that Nova is so strong unfair to them? Oberon for example has pretty good ult, but he has very average stats and his ult is about the only good thing he has, it also has smaller AoE and he has little max energy, even though he's clearly caster frame. Is it unfair to him? Should Nova be brought down to his level?

 

Who exactly is Penta unfair to? And if it is why should be Penta changed as opposed to these weapons it's unfair to.

 

It won't even make much difference to the power of the weapon, it's limitation for the sake of limitation. Just like CD would be. It's just so it makes people feel better.. so yeah.. CD on Nova would certainly make me feel better. Cosmetic change or nerf, doesn't matter. The difference is that I don't try to force people to make changes that make me feel better.

 

What, it's a suggestion. You're essentially forcing me to change my opinion or back off because you "don't see any point".

Penta/Torid/Ogris are unfair to the "special weapons" class in general. 

Why do the worse weapons such as bows and similar weapons such as the Miter receive the sniper ammo treatment but the massively better weapons such as the Penta and Ogris receive the rifle ammo treatment? Is there legitimately a good reason why?

 

I'm asking for balance, for the sake of balance.

If you let small things like these off unchecked, it builds up.

Checks and balances.

[Otaiken]

What, it's a suggestion. You're essentially forcing me to change my opinion or back off because you "don't see any point".

Penta/Torid/Ogris are unfair to the "special weapons" class in general. 

Why do the worse weapons such as bows and similar weapons such as the Miter receive the sniper ammo treatment but the massively better weapons such as the Penta and Ogris receive the rifle ammo treatment? Is there legitimately a good reason why?

 

I'm asking for balance, for the sake of balance.

If you let small things like these off unchecked, it builds up.

Checks and balances.

 

Is there a specific reason why Miter uses sniper ammo pool? I think that it should use rifle ammo pool too. But that would be change to Miter, not Penta. But there's not enough people disappointed with Miter, not compared to number of people angry with Penta. They use Miter as a whip... but it has nothing to do with it. It makes less sense for Miter to use sniper ammo than for Penta to use rifle ammo imho.

 

And DE already proved that they can change the ammo count for weapon individually with Grakata. Why not do that?

 

And if anything it would make more sense for launchers to use shotgun ammo, not sniper ammo. Snipers being simply bad weapons to use in Warframe has nothing to do with their type of ammunition. That's because people insist on having this archetype of weapon whether it fits into the game or not. Sniper weapons themselves should not use sniper ammo pool, they will still suck, but at least you'll have enough ammo to snipe every enemy without constantly searching for ammo.

 

Your idea of balance is hammering in everything that sticks out.

 

You know what? Let's agree on launchers using the shotgun ammo pool.. shotguns in general have very good damage and good ammo economy.. so it's a good fit. Nothing deserves the sniper ammo curse.. not even sniper rifles.

Edited January 3, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Kagumin]

Is there a specific reason why Miter uses sniper ammo pool? I think that it should use rifle ammo pool too. But that would be change to Miter, not Penta. But there's not enough people disappointed with Miter, not compared to number of people angry with Penta. They use Miter as a whip... but it has nothing to do with it. It makes less sense for Miter to use sniper ammo than for Penta to use rifle ammo imho.

 

 

And DE already proved that they can change the ammo count for weapon individually with Grakata. Why not do that?

 

And if anything it would make more sense for launchers to use shotgun ammo, not sniper ammo. Snipers being simply bad weapons to use in Warframe has nothing to do with their type of ammunition. That's because people insist on havign this archetype of weapon whether it fits into the game or not.

 

Or you can rename sniper ammo to "Specialist Ammo" and put all current and future launchers/snipers/bows/any non-assault rifle/shotgun/pistol/auto-pistol/continuous weapon in there.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Kagumin

[Otaiken]

Or you can rename sniper ammo to "Specialist Ammo" and put all current and future launchers/snipers/bows/any non-assault rifle/shotgun/pistol/auto-pistol/continuous weapon in there.

 

With such a wide variety of different weapon archetypes using the same ammo you would have to give it 600 capacity.. making this whole change pointless to begin with.

 

Why not get rid of sniper ammo completely and use rifle ammo for everything but shotguns. Then you can't complain about launchers having more ammo than bows.

Edited January 3, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Kagumin]

With such a wide variety of different weapon archetypes using the same ammo you would have to give it 600 capacity.. making this whole change pointless to begin with.

 

Why not get rid of sniper ammo completely and use rifle ammo for everything but shotguns. Then you can't complain about launchers having more ammo than bows.

 

I like your shotgun suggestion better.

Although, editing a string of code to modify max ammo isn't that hard unless their code is messy to begin with.

[Otaiken]

I like your shotgun suggestion better.

Although, editing a string of code to modify max ammo isn't that hard unless their code is messy to begin with.

 

I would rather get rid of the ammo pool as balancing factor thing entirely. I think that all weapons should be balanced with infinite ammo in mind. THEN you could maybe take the ammo consumption and buff the weapon relatively to how much it suffers from it. And yes, BUFF, do not nerf weapons that are ammo efficient. That adds only annoyance.

 

There should be 3 ammo pools:

 

Rifle - 500

Special - 150

Sidearm - 300

 

And continuous weapons should be rechargable.

 

Also, it would make more sense to give bows ability to recover arrows. Not only would this solve the ammo issue, it would also give them some kind of niche.

 

But all of this is issue with ammo in general rather than Penta. People were calling for nerfs for Armor Ignore weapons in damage 1.0. even though the issue were not those weapons, but the damage system.

Edited January 3, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[SIDESTRE4M]

I would be careful with that. I mean, it's not like every weapon is balanced perfectly but fast firing weapons always have ammo problems. If that wasn't the case you could fire non-stop with Supra/Gorgon/Soma.

 

I can hear the voices already... Why do they have to care for ammo and Penta not?

 

That's because they are way more flexible, have great sustained dps and could also clear rooms very easily.

Getting swarmed with Latron or Gorgon are totally different situations.

 

By the way I think Warframe lacks a good semiautomatic rifle. A better version of the Latron on a higher mastery rank or maybe even dojo.

Oh wait. Soma is somewhat this.^^

[Veldara]

And why is this even being discussed?

 

Basically, everyone who doesn't own a penta, or isn't the appropriate rank yet, wants it nerfed. I'm sorry, don't you have something better to do, like make more posts to improve lecta? So many weapons which suck but yet there are too many nerf posts, so try actually doing something productive.

 

Jealousy much? We should all nerf everything to a point where all weapons and abilities suck.

 

People nowadays.

[Kagumin]

And why is this even being discussed?

 

Basically, everyone who doesn't own a penta, or isn't the appropriate rank yet, wants it nerfed. I'm sorry, don't you have something better to do, like make more posts to improve lecta? So many weapons which suck but yet there are too many nerf posts, so try actually doing something productive.

 

Jealousy much? We should all nerf everything to a point where all weapons and abilities suck.

 

People nowadays.

 

Even more assumptions.

I use the Penta a lot for high-level stuff, I wouldn't provide feedback if I never had/used it for a long while.

Question, have YOU even used the Penta yet? Did you even notice that you would never run lower than 500 ammo with it even on higher levels?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Kagumin

[MoyuTheTrinity]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

[Stormfinnare]

ok, here is my thoughts on this. 

 

Nerf ammo for these would not change anything.

 

I barely use 10 ammo before I find a drop and its insta

refilled on low to medium level maps.

 

Even on ODD defense I barely skim the surface of the

ammo pool before the wave is over.

 

To have 75, or 75k ammo would do no difference at all,

so its my belief that the OP here hasnt really though this

through.

 

"What about realism then?" you might ask.

 

I would like to point out that personal rocket launchers

are heavy as all hells to carry, and you do not usually

bring many reloads at all with you if the launcher at all

is reusable. (My own personal experience)

 

Please take a look at this referense.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-fired_missile

 

The second picture show you a reusable RPG7 and

its ammo. Even if you where to have only 15 of those,

imagine how stupid you would look to carry all those

around, not to mention dangerouse.

 

so, for the sake of realism, you would either say that

the ammo cap should be about 2, or you are not

being consistent in your argument.

 

My conclusion? sure, go ahead and nerf to 45, or 10.

It wouldnt really make a difference as you could use

ammo conversion mods and just one missile would be

enough to get the ball rolling.

 

Hell, even nerf to 2, and people would stop using it all

together, problem solved.

 

I would rather people think a little before screaming

about nerfs.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

 

Edit: Please have my typos. They are free.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Stormfinnare

[Kagumin]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

 

You can disagree, but that doesn't mean you can spread misinformation.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

You can disagree, but that doesn't mean you can spread misinformation.

it isnt misinformation if they say it offhand 2-3 times in a lifestream

[HereticKitsune]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

 

They could do a great deal to fix the ammo count of explosive weaponry by setting the weapons to use Sniper Ammo.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

They could do a great deal to fix the ammo count of explosive weaponry by setting the weapons to use Sniper Ammo.

and have more bugs with thos weapons

 like said before

miter has bugs it cant use the sniper or bow mods eventho its now one and this is probably unintentinal as exploding miter was probably the desired effect

it probably cant use rifle only mods now either wich i think we only have one max ammo in clip (saddly cant be used on vectis) its the currupted mod

Edited January 4, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic