Nerf The Vanguard Rhino Helm

[WARLOCKE]

I cant understand why this fetid thread isnt locked yet. 

 

Ok, lets take this at a different angle.

 

Vanguard was introduced soon after the great Iron Skin nerf. It was introduced for a reason. You cant have a slow CC/support frame. 

 

Rhino being slow is a penalty from a bygone era. A time when Rhino WAS a tank. A time when stomp an radial blast put out lolstastic damage and rhino charge wasntmuch better. He had one working skill, Iron Skill. And it made him the default tank/reviver. DE at first stated Rhino was indeed a tank. But somewhere along the way thier design methods changed.

 

When the whiners got their much wanted IS nerf, the devs enacted thier new design method on his rework. He is no longer a tank. Go see his profile video. He is labeled as a Control frame by the designers themselves. There is no "tank" frame. The closest we still have to one is Trinity and Frost.

Rhino , as a control frame. Needs to be in the forefront of the fighting. He needs to be able to quickly switch positions to achieve his task. That is why Rhino is fine with Vanguard. It is why it exists in the first place.

 

And heres a little something to chew on. The last time the whiner squad got Rhino nerfed, they actually got him buffed, big time. Be carefull what you wish for kids.

[MsXylar]

To be perfectly clear:

 

* I have played Warframe since closed beta, my 5-digit account ID here should be more than sufficient proof of that among other things. I'm not some random scrub that just joined a month ago and then thought to spark debate without much fore thought. Besides, what I wrote and posted in the OP is at its core my opinion, and every person has a right to their own opinion and also to voice them. Now, unless you intend to infringe upon my right of voicing my opinion, of which I will gladly continue to discuss with you in PM, I suggest dropping it; you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

* I played more than enough games with Vanguard Rhino to realize just how ridiculously mobile and agile he is with that helmet. To reiterate, Vanguard Rhino ties for 3rd in speed and outruns at least 13 other WFs as a tank/bruiser, while keeping his trademark durability and stopping power that sets Rhino apart from the competition, that is absurd for game balance. And again, no, -5% power strength is quite literally nothing, it's barely even acknowledgable as a "sacrifice".

 

* I did not get "beaten" to extraction, in fact I am complaining of the exact opposite: Of the fact that I outrun and outmanuever pretty much everyone except for Loki, Ash, and Volt (and Nova looking at the numbers?). Learn to read before you accuse me with your stupid and unfounded assumptions. As much as I hate to get personal in a debate, you are surprisingly lacking in maturity and finesse for being 42 years old (as stated by your forum profile as of this writing).

 

 

This guy gets it, the idea of reducing the bonus movement speed (currently +25%) to something more reasonable (+10%?) is one way of addressing this balancing problem.

Played since closed beta? Yeah lol.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. And that is exactly what I am also doing.. So if you would like to continue this conversation in a PM, as stated by you in your post, please feel free to do so, because the way I see it, you are entitled to your opinion but no-one else is allowed to dissagree with you and give their opinion?

 

Have a good look at the 7 pages of comments. 70% of the gamers on have given their opinions about you being wrong, And you still find it in your heart to make comments about ppl's maturity and lack of finesse and try and prove how wrong our opinions are?  Lets talk about maturity and finesse again shall we?

 

Ohh and why should I drop it? My opinion isnt valid like yours?

 

And I certainly do not bark. :) Bite yea, but not bark. I dont make empty promises with barking.

Edited January 6, 2014 by MsXylar

[MysteryNotes]

As a user of Rhino and having recently acquired the Vanguard Rhino Helmet, I suggest with all due respect: Nerf the movement speed bonus.

 

I don't suggest this lightly. In fact I absolutely hate how slow Rhino moves even with Rush equipped. Before I got the Vanguard helm, it always felt refreshing to change over to Excalibur or another of my more mobile frames and actually run as fast or faster than my other teammates. There was a clear distinction between mobile and slow-tank frames.

 

With my acquisition of the Vanguard helmet however, I am now completely outrunning everyone short of a Volt with his Speed up or a fully decked out Loki or Ash. I run faster than Excalibur, the supposedly mobile melee DPS counterpart to the slow melee tank that Rhino is. I run faster than Valkyr, who is supposedly an all-in punch-crap-to-death warframe. This ridiculous movement speed buff from Vanguard has effectively made all my other less tanky "mobile" frames completely pointless besides the novelty.

 

So please, nerf the movement speed bonus on Vanguard Rhino Helmet. Rhino can use a slight movement speed buff for a trade-off, his default movement speed is indeed atrocious, but Rhino should not be so quick and agile that he puts almost all of the other supposed-to-be-mobile frames to shame.

 

Also, inb4 "if u dont like it dont use it" posts.

 

Simple. Don't use it if you don't like it.

Just because you don't like moving too fast, doesn't mean you should impose your viewpoint on everyone else that likes going fast.

[taiiat]

I think the problem of slow frames getting left behind and intentionally separated from the rest of the team is a sign of a serious fundamental flaw in the way Warframe's gameplay is designed, and it is extremely irresponsible of us beta-testers to be simply hand-waving it away. Yes, the movement speed bonus on Vanguard does solve the symptom of Rhino getting left behind (ironically Rhino is leaving people behind now), but it does so at the cost of game balance and does not address the problem at its core.

i'd by lying if i said i disagreed with that. the problem lies deeper than where people are digging.

 

this one is a difficult fix though. it reaches back to almost right at the core of the gameplay and game layout. 

a lot of discussion in the past year or so can be summed up as part of this issue. 

- missions need more reason for players to stick around and explore the map.

- missions need less linear map layouts. the entire map being a sort of T shape(not all of the time but quite often) is rather bland, honestly.

- missions need optional objectives that are worth doing. these objectives could easily contain what players are looking for, so Extraction is more of a "we're done now" rather than "this gets me what i'm looking for".

 

and plenty more minor / moderate changes here and there that all together fix the problem.

 

Played since closed beta? Yeah lol.

your attitude is terrible. you don't need to agree with the truth, but saying the truth is false, is a pretty hefty statement. unless you can prove Time Travel technology to be feasible in the modern world, i don't see how the truth can be false.

you may clearly see his account is only a couple weeks younger than mine.

 

wait, why was this important again? i can't remember how or why it is. 

Edited January 6, 2014 by taiiat

[Nichizzy]

 

Yeah, poorly....lol

 

 

Translation:

You can skillfully bypass your frame's slower rate of speed by using the rest of the game's mechanics which still apply.

 

That was my point.  Way to read.

 

 

Wow.  That's entirely my point.  Man what is with people on these forums not reading?  Am I trying to make points to children?

1. Try to be more constructive with your post. 'Yeah, poorly... lol' isn't constructive.

 

2. Your point was, I quote "  He couldn't bypass his slow runspeed with wall walking or sliding" which is the opposite of my point," You can skillfully catch up with most players through wise use of wallrun, slides and Rhino Charge."

 

3. Read the sentence in its context, not just the last few words.

 

Nice try. When I started playing Rhino was a similar speed to all other Warframes. I was playing before all the Warframes were given different run speeds. The idea of some Warframes being fast or slow did not exist.

 

Besides, no Warframe should have a base .9 run speed anyway. Being slow is not fun.

It's strange. If you could reason that DE first made all frames to have equal run speed and it was good... then it stands to reason that when DE later decided to introduce different run speed - it must have been better right? Obviously DE wants their game to improve...

 

Sure, add 0.1 run speed. Then 1.0 is the new 0.9. Same difference.

 

Maturity and finesse?!!? Are you seriousl?! 42 or not, I dont whinge and $#*(@ like a child about an alt helm that NEEDS to be nerfed cause??!! Its too fast.. Lets talk about that maturity and finesse one more time shall we?!

In that sense, aren't you whining when we suggested a nerf to the helm?

 

You 'reason' that Rhino is too slow and needs the Vanguard helm for the speed buff. 

We reason that Vanguard Rhino is too fast and the speed buff could stand to be reduced. Yet... we are whiners?

 

Others have posted reasons describing situations where Rhino needs to be fast. Those are constructive and mature posts - it opens up discussions. I'm sorry but I honestly don't quite see the maturity in your post.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Nichizzy