How To Make The Infested A More Viable Opponent

[YoshiPendragon]

Warframe has been an addiction of mine since it hit Steam some months ago, and whenever I dedicate myself to a game I also spend hours reading its forum. A thought of mine that has been lingering for quite awhile seems to also be the general consensus of the community: The Infested are far too easy, and strongly lack in the horrifying presence department. I hope to offer some ideas, some new and some inspired by similar games, that can provide DE with material to revisit this area of the game and improve it while the game is still Beta.

 

First off, let's discuss the similarities of "The Infestation" with "The Flood". Both enemy factions are based around a parasitic or infectious type of mutation which takes over living or animates dead subjects. These subjects often undergo physical transformations which range from mutations as simple as growth covering a majority of the body, to improving the host subject with bio-organic armor and additional or regrown appendages to be used as weaponry.

 

The key difference between "The Infestation" and "The Flood", which in my opinion is the major factor in the difference of threat between the two, is the level of intelligence. Both factions exist with the purpose of Kill -> Reproduce, but the Infested only know one trick: swarm. They will use numbers of enemies to swarm up close quarters and try to smack/explode you to death. The Flood, on the other hand, uses this tactic with the addition of many more. They mutate hosts to provide a range of combat effectiveness such as projectile throwers, gun wielders, large brute tanks with melee capabilities, bladed enemies, carriers to bring swarms up close unharmed and even small flying parasites. This wide range of tactics makes The Flood formidable, dangerous and quite terrifying to face in small groups, much less one-on-one.

 

Appearance is a major driving factor in triggering the brain to feel fear or gain an adrenaline rush. The Infested, as they are now, feel like we are fighting fluffy colorful mentally handicapped aliens, compared to The Flood which use dark fleshy and blood-soaked colors with more violent mutations.

 

 

Vs.

 

 

What would be great to see to fix this problem are a variety of changes and additions to the Infested, as follows:

 

1. Get rid of the bright orange/blue/green/purple color scheme of the Infested and focus on a grungier, bloodier look. Horrible parasitic mutations that prey on victims with the intent to transform and distort should scream "OMG ZOMBIE" and not "Ooo pretty colors." (Obviously they are not "zombies" but mutants more along the lines of Resident Evil. But those are still plenty gross and terrifying.)

 

2. Change the Runners'/Leapers' suicide attack away from water-balloon pop to primed grenade devastating explosion with knockdown chance. These enemies are post-mortem/mutation Corpus, and Corpus carry a range of explosive weapons. Mutate them. Use them.

 

3. Add in a range-based enemy that launches bio-organic spikes like a shotgun/mortar which create small poison cloud areas and do puncture damage. It also couldn't hurt to have an aerial-type enemy that flies overhead at quick speeds (same height as ospreys) and drops a vapor cloud which impairs our vision (shaking/color distortion/fisheye pulsations) and/or a different enemy whose vapor causes neural disruption which shuffles our movement keys and camera movement angles for a short period of time.

 

4. If the Ancients are really ancient, then give them some fancy ancient weaponry that we've never seen to make them more viable as elite mobs. The only differentiating factor between all of them at the moment is "what color is it?!", but they all run in like a pi$$ed off bull to slap-spam us and do their color-determined special ability. Disruptors should be far more dangerous in the way of brute-forcing their way into the group through mutated armor plates, and then drop their armor off for a moment of vulnerability to create an AoE EMP-like blast which knocks energy off of all nearby Warframes. Ancient Healers should be able to create a wall/cloud of foggy mist which is used to both heal their zombeh brethren and also impair our visibility allowing easier approach. The Toxic Ancient can easily be turned into the ranged attacker listed above in #3.

 

5. Give us mini-bosses on almost every Infested battle a la "Tank" (large powerful mutation that shakes the ground as it walks/runs, weilding infested versions of big melee weapons, immune to crowd control abilities) and "Queen" (large semi-invulnerable baby-maker that spews out reinforcements of small Infested and can only be taken down by exploiting weak spots seldom visible).

 

6. Keep us on our toes with surprise-strike Infested that have the ability to fade in and out of visibility with an adapted camoflauge, whom have the ability to latch onto us and do massive damage if we don't avoid its last-second lunge.

 

7. Make them work together! What's the purpose of having a hive-mind type enemy if each and every one of them runs around like a chicken with their heads cut off? Develop A.I. tactics to make them use each other's tricks to gain the upperhand. For example: Bring the swarms from one side to block retreat and send a "tank" running in from the other direction to crush us in our trap / Use the stealth ability Infested to distract us while a ranged enemy launches poison projectiles to our positions or vice versa / Lead Ancients in ahead of Runners/Leapers to provide cover against their kamikaze tactics, etc..etc..

 

 

I would love to have your feedback and ideas as well, hopefully with enough participation we can get DE to revisit this section of the game and provide us with something awesome.

 

Happy Hunting, Tenno!

 

-           Doctor Yoshi

Captain of Smooth Criminals Inc.

Edited January 6, 2014 by DoctorYoshi

[Vheraun]

Not bad... I especially like the "hive mind" comment.

 

The only thing I read somewhere else and I'd like to add is some type of wall-crawling Infested. Other than that, you've covered it pretty well.

[Vicidomini]

Huh, never really thought about the colors, but they are a little bright aren't they?

[Cybernetix]

What i'd really like to see is an overhaul of infested AI. Have them act as a mindless horde normally, yet when in the presence of an ancient (or an entirely new unit) that acts as a relay with their hive mind, they become a lot more dangerous and use tactics other than RUN AT THEM AND TRY TO KILL THEM and possibly gain new abilities while the special unit is still alive.

[Siubijeni]

What i'd really like to see is an overhaul of infested AI. Have them act as a mindless horde normally, yet when in the presence of an ancient (or an entirely new unit) that acts as a relay with their hive mind, they become a lot more dangerous and use tactics other than RUN AT THEM AND TRY TO KILL THEM and possibly gain new abilities while the special unit is still alive.

So you want to make them Tyranids?

 

I'm actually fine with that. I love the nids.

[YoshiPendragon]

What i'd really like to see is an overhaul of infested AI. Have them act as a mindless horde normally, yet when in the presence of an ancient (or an entirely new unit) that acts as a relay with their hive mind, they become a lot more dangerous and use tactics other than RUN AT THEM AND TRY TO KILL THEM and possibly gain new abilities while the special unit is still alive.

 

That would definitely widen the combat mechanics. I'm all for anything that makes the experience more enjoyable and more challenging. When you can solo any infested content as any frame without ever being touched... something is wrong.

[cacodemon9000]

Ancient disruptor can easily ruin all battle and force you to fail only with a single hit, making large AoE can make them too powerful. They are ok now.

Agree about runners. They was boring stagger bombs, now they cannot even stagger. They really need to be buffed. Maybe need to add poison/gas/radiation cloud after explotion, or spread poisoned spikes in all direction. Poison/toxic spitters sound good, but I want to see them based on chargers. Flying infested sound good too.

[Katzenwolf]

There are two things;

A. They are not zombies. They have been mutated while alive. If you're infected, your body twists and shifts and tears and mends. And you're feeling every bit of it.

B. You haven't been here since Closed Beta, so I'll just tell you about the walkers. Their self-destruct ability used to stagger. 'Pop' and you were staggered. Another 'pop' and you were knocked down. And if you thought you could get up? 'pop' and you fell back down. Adding knock-down and stagger to them, again, will cause the same problems as before. If you've ever been cornered by shield lancers, this is far worse. Ancients and Walkers have the ability to do this and you're never getting up. Now that they removed it, it makes life a little easier since some weapons just can't kill walkers without making them pop. The Ancient's love-taps are annoying, too, as they can Shield Lancer you to death on top of their abilities.

 

But yes, I do agree that the infested are a little too bright. However, I'd rather keep my infested color pallet. Now, onto making the infested horrifying? Did you know that if it moves and runs like a human, a human's mind will go 'Oh, that used to be human-esc. So it's not creepy'? The infested need twitching, shambling, and odd movements to have the beginnings of a creep factor. You don't want them running and walking like the Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, or any human-based creature. And the chargers don't do much as they don't crawl along walls and ceilings. Sure, once you realize that a Charger used to be a Grineer lancer, you get a little eerie feeling. But that's nothing compared to what could have been done.

 

>

> I can't find the other video I was thinking of. Sorry.

> Found it-

A little off-topic, but still decent watches

Edited January 6, 2014 by Katzenwolf

[FiveHours]

I haven't laughed at a post in a while (in a good way). I agree with this idea, the infested does need rework. Maybe you can add some stuff about the chargers? They are supposed to have ferrite and alloyplate armor, meaning that they would be a lot harder to kill, right?

[YoshiPendragon]

There are two things;

A. They are not zombies. They have been mutated while alive. If you're infected, your body twists and shifts and tears and mends. And you're feeling every bit of it.

B. You haven't been here since Closed Beta, so I'll just tell you about the walkers. Their self-destruct ability used to stagger. 'Pop' and you were staggered. Another 'pop' and you were knocked down. And if you thought you could get up? 'pop' and you fell back down. Adding knock-down and stagger to them, again, will cause the same problems as before. If you've ever been cornered by shield lancers, this is far worse. Ancients and Walkers have the ability to do this and you're never getting up. Now that they removed it, it makes life a little easier since some weapons just can't kill walkers without making them pop. The Ancient's love-taps are annoying, too, as they can Shield Lancer you to death on top of their abilities.

 

But yes, I do agree that the infested are a little too bright. However, I'd rather keep my infested color pallet. Now, onto making the infested horrifying? Did you know that if it moves and runs like a human, a human's mind will go 'Oh, that used to be human-esc. So it's not creepy'? The infested need twitching, shambling, and odd movements to have the beginnings of a creep factor. You don't want them running and walking like the Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, or any human-based creature. And the chargers don't do much as they don't crawl along walls and ceilings. Sure, once you realize that a Charger used to be a Grineer lancer, you get a little eerie feeling. But that's nothing compared to what could have been done.

 

>

> I can't find the other video I was thinking of. Sorry.

 

The runners had this effect at the beginning of Open Beta so I was around to witness that, and I don't mean that scale of effect. These types should be far fewer with a basic Infested filling the surplus, but need to be more than a little splash of goo if they get too close. Victory should come with sweat and blood with many close calls. 

 

By "Zombie" I mostly mean horrific dead-looking mutation of something that was once "alive". They don't have to have been dead to begin with, but in all essence they are going for the pseudo-zombie type enemy. Might as well keep it as close as possible to that as they can. I strongly agree with the creepy movement animations being a big necessity. Small shutters, stumbles, shrieks and fits of uncoordinated rage could go far with what we already have.

 

You also get bonus points for posting a vsauce video. I love vsauce.

Edited January 6, 2014 by DoctorYoshi

[YoshiPendragon]

I haven't laughed at a post in a while (in a good way). I agree with this idea, the infested does need rework. Maybe you can add some stuff about the chargers? They are supposed to have ferrite and alloyplate armor, meaning that they would be a lot harder to kill, right?

 

I can see the chargers being far more terrifying with the right set of animations. They can still come stumbling in on all fours with their overgrown organic armor and what appears to be the upper half of a head hanging down for sight needs, but once they come in close quarters they rear back on their hind legs to expose a rotting mutated Grineer body with a head dangling from a broken neck. In this position they use their strong arms with large claws to slash forward at us while trying to maintain balance on their hind legs. We would have the ability to kick them in this position causing them to fall backwards onto their armored back, forcing them to stop attacking while they must roll back over to regain footing before they can stand up again to slash.

[RustyNaps]

Actually Infested and Flood are very different.

 

Infested can't seem to develop more mass like the Flood can by changing cells into Flood cells rather the Infestation is a symbiotic parasite (Much like spidermans venom) that moves around body parts and organs to make a form but the infestation can gain more biological mass by absorbing other living or dead things while flood can just multiply the mass on whim. Also flood hosts are typically dead in a matter of hours and their consciousness completely replaced by the flood infection form. Infested hosts still have full consciousness for centuries until the infested woo their mind to joining their collective, so technically the person infected still has his mind he's just pro infested.

 

The two creatures are similar but very different in terms of spreading and infecting.

[YoshiPendragon]

Actually Infested and Flood are very different.

 

Infested can't seem to develop more mass like the Flood can by changing cells into Flood cells rather the Infestation is a symbiotic parasite (Much like spidermans venom) that moves around body parts and organs to make a form but the infestation can gain more biological mass by absorbing other living or dead things while flood can just multiply the mass on whim. Also flood hosts are typically dead in a matter of hours and their consciousness completely replaced by the flood infection form. Infested hosts still have full consciousness for centuries until the infested woo their mind to joining their collective, so technically the person infected still has his mind he's just pro infested.

 

The two creatures are similar but very different in terms of spreading and infecting.

 

I agree that they have many differences physically, but I'm more concerned with their combat similarities. The purpose of the Infested in gameplay is to serve the same purpose as The Flood did. An overwhelming force of non-human enemies that we don't quite understand. It's meant to put pressure on us and terrorize us, force us to play smarter to overcome the sheer number and power of them. Those exact things just aren't present.

[RustyNaps]

I agree that they have many differences physically, but I'm more concerned with their combat similarities. The purpose of the Infested in gameplay is to serve the same purpose as The Flood did. An overwhelming force of non-human enemies that we don't quite understand. It's meant to put pressure on us and terrorize us, force us to play smarter to overcome the sheer number and power of them. Those exact things just aren't present.

Actually you should stop by the fan art section where I am posting some infested reduxes and new enemies.

 

Anyway, I like your ideas but I don't want infested to wield weapons made by other factions, rather I'd like them to have built in infested weapons like Synapse and Embolist infused to their body parts etc.

 

Whops didn't read all of it, seems like you are on track, for runners I was thinking having the explosive barrels fused onto them.

 

You should check out some of my redone ancients, you'd like them.

Edited January 6, 2014 by RustyNaps

[YoshiPendragon]

Actually you should stop by the fan art section where I am posting some infested reduxes and new enemies.

 

Anyway, I like your ideas but I don't want infested to wield weapons made by other factions, rather I'd like them to have built in infested weapons like Synapse and Embolist infused to their body parts etc.

 

You should check out some of my redone ancients, you'd like them.

 

The only other faction weapon I would want them to use is the grenade for self-detonation. I'm thinking that the Tank can use the Mire and the Charger can use mutated versions of bones in their arms, etc. Perhaps the "Queen" type could use tentacle versions of the Scoliac.

 

I'll swing by and take a look at your art concepts, those always intrigue me.

[RustyNaps]

The only other faction weapon I would want them to use is the grenade for self-detonation. I'm thinking that the Tank can use the Mire and the Charger can use mutated versions of bones in their arms, etc. Perhaps the "Queen" type could use tentacle versions of the Scoliac.

 

I'll swing by and take a look at your art concepts, those always intrigue me.

Actually making the leaper arm a scoliac would look good since it does fairly fast melee. Charges can stay the same really, they don't need upgrades to them.

[YoshiPendragon]

Actually making the leaper arm a scoliac would look good since it does fairly fast melee. Charges can stay the same really, they don't need upgrades to them.

 

I wouldn't mind if the Chargers didn't sound like dinosaurs anymore.

[YoshiPendragon]

Ancient disruptor can easily ruin all battle and force you to fail only with a single hit, making large AoE can make them too powerful. They are ok now.

Agree about runners. They was boring stagger bombs, now they cannot even stagger. They really need to be buffed. Maybe need to add poison/gas/radiation cloud after explotion, or spread poisoned spikes in all direction. Poison/toxic spitters sound good, but I want to see them based on chargers. Flying infested sound good too.

 

The thing with Ancient Disruptors is that they're so easy right now it's depressing. The only time I or a group member ever get hit by an Ancient Disruptor is if we're goofing around or just plain not paying attention. With the use of Vauban's Bastille or Frost's Snow Globe, nothing can really get close enough to present a threat. As Disruptors tower above the other Infested and are quickly visible thanks to their giant red mouth (red is the most visible color in the spectrum), they can be picked off with ease before ever getting too close. By lessening their numbers and making them nearly invulnerable until close enough to drop their armor and create an AoE energy drain, it raises the need to be tactical as you have to constantly know what's on the field and be ready to draw your aim back to them the split second you can take them out before they use their ability. This of course would mean that no more than 4 Disruptors should be present at any given time (1 per player) and there would need to be a decent length cooldown or even a one-and-done function to where they cannot put their armor back on once it is dropped to expose their energy disrupting core/generator.

[CrimsonPorpoise]

Personally I would prefer if the infested kept their current colours. It lends Warframe its own visual style. What the infested really needs is better AI. Their current design, if you sit down and look at the details, does show that the victims are in a horrific manner. It's just that the Infested are currently just so much of a joke to fight that we really won't associate fear with them.