De Please Change Ogris Ammo Type Already. Srsly

[NikolaiLev]

Sniper ammo would be fine; that's what bows use, even if they have a special ammo mutator mod.

 

The penta and torid need this adjustment too.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Sry, there are so many guys making a big fuss about it, as if this change would impact the gameplay like hell.

Please, DE, give those launchers sniper ammo to make these threads stop.

[R3leaZ]

Leave the Ogris alone.  Seriously.  It's fine.  It has infinite ammo.  It's great.  Why wouldn't you want that?  Why is everyone a masochist?  We don't need to turn WF into Metro.

 

On a similar note, I'm getting tired of all the nerf threads.  My reaction when something is great is "Wow, this is great!", not, "Oh, this is great, so they should take it away."  Infinite ammo is probably the nicest perk about the Ogris.  Why can't people enjoy what's good about things?  It doesn't need to be balanced to the point where every weapon and frame are exactly the same.  Some stuff can have advantages.  It's ok.  Really.  Yeah, a Tenno can carry 540 rockets.  So what?  Link can carry about a hundred bombs in his pocket, each of which is bigger than he is.  Final Fantasy characters can carry thousands upon thousands of massive weapons.  It doesn't need to be realistic.  That's why we have Metro.

 

Im honestly getting tired of people who want to have it like a cakewalk. This is still a game, I might come over like an elitist but a game needs to have some form of challenge. Not only that, freaking 540 max ammo will never run out. Hell if you play it right 72 max ammo will never run out either on your Ogris. But yea that atleast gives players still reason to go scavenge for ammo if they are careless with their shots and it also makes it a bit more immersive since how can I carry less pistol ammo then freaking solid rockets? Sure I can carry a bunch of pistol ammo too but that still doesn't change the fact that being able to carry even more rockets just destroys immersion even more.

 

Tbh this whole max ammo system stuck to the ammo type is flawed as a whole. Having max ammo tied to individual weapons actually gives another factor to balance. Like a certain weapon is a lot stronger and is overall a lot more efficient in a lot of factors but in balance of that it gets a smaller max ammo capacity not just because of gameplay purposes, it just makes sense that larger sized rounds are more difficult to carry due to the additional weight so just use that as an excuse.

Edited January 9, 2014 by R3leaZ

[Otaiken]

I don't think that if all weapons had infinite ammo it would hurt the balance of the game. It might only slighlty buff DPS based weapons... or rather make them less annoying to use. Collecting ammo isn't fun.

 

I think that ammo exists to make you switch weapons.. that is its primary purpose. But it shouldn't be a balancing factor.

[TenkoTenko]

So why change it then?

because it makes 'sense' or something

[HillsAndTheSea]

I don't think that if all weapons had infinite ammo it would hurt the balance of the game. It might only slighlty buff DPS based weapons... or rather make them less annoying to use. Collecting ammo isn't fun.

 

I think that ammo exists to make you switch weapons.. that is its primary purpose. But it shouldn't be a balancing factor.

 

yes because supra/soma/synapse/ignis with the trigger always held would make the game harder and all other weapons much more viable. its not even a matter of collecting ammo, its a matter of using ammo wisely and learning to take advantage of the bullets you have, its an amazingly simple concept that 99% percent of shooters have.

 

seriously, its a no brainer these guns need to switch ammo types for a number of reasons

 

-every other gun needs to actually think about ammo

-rifle ammo pool is too large for these guns (540 rockets?)

-rifle ammo is too common and restores to many units of ammo per pickup (this also applies to ammo restores)

 

maybe its just me but i cant even think of ONE solid game where "infinite rocket launcher" is something thats not a cheat code and enabled by default, nor can i even think ONE example where rockets by default have the same ammo capacity of as a machine gun.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Ammo capacity is just ONE aspect. You wanna nerf Lex or Seer too because it's not fair considering Vipers, Embolist, Spectra and so on? Never heard of that.

I think all those guys wanting a nerf do neither own or like it at all. I mean IF they used Ogris or Penta to a certain degree they would understand that the difficulty comes from other thing like selfhurt, tactical positioning and so on. With an efficient nature of this high degree, the ammo capacity is the most trivial thing you should worry about.

You have to nerf it to 20 to actually make the user worry a bit, so all this "because it makes sense because some random reference" is just for nothing.

[Brimir]

You still going around touting that "self-injury justifies infinite ammo"-line, Sidestream? Just admit that you want infinite ammo; don't try and justify it. There is no justifying it.

 

It is OK, we won't be mad at you.

[SquirmyBurrito]

The one thing some people will never understand. It doesn't matter what ammo type it is or it's total ammo pool, because you'll still never run out. Plain and simple. Changing it's ammo type would in no way effect the current weapon dynamic.

Leave the Ogris alone.  Seriously.  It's fine.  It has infinite ammo.  It's great.  Why wouldn't you want that?  Why is everyone a masochist?  We don't need to turn WF into Metro.

 

On a similar note, I'm getting tired of all the nerf threads.  My reaction when something is great is "Wow, this is great!", not, "Oh, this is great, so they should take it away."  Infinite ammo is probably the nicest perk about the Ogris.  Why can't people enjoy what's good about things?  It doesn't need to be balanced to the point where every weapon and frame are exactly the same.  Some stuff can have advantages.  It's ok.  Really.  Yeah, a Tenno can carry 540 rockets.  So what?  Link can carry about a hundred bombs in his pocket, each of which is bigger than he is.  Final Fantasy characters can carry thousands upon thousands of massive weapons.  It doesn't need to be realistic.  That's why we have Metro.

 

^These. As it stands the Ogris has amazing ammo efficiency, why would you want to run out of ammo with your weapon? Or are those people who want it to have less ammo speaking from the perspective of an onlooker rather than the user?

[Makya]

^These. As it stands the Ogris has amazing ammo efficiency, why would you want to run out of ammo with your weapon? Or are those people who want it to have less ammo speaking from the perspective of an onlooker rather than the user?

I have the Ogris, I also have the Penta. I say both need to use 'Specialty Ammo' and not Rifle ammo.

[Silver_Fox75]

Because of the ogris doing must of its damage in one shot nit many (Soma,vipers, etc) it wouldn't matter the ammo pool it'll still not run out

[SquirmyBurrito]

yes because supra/soma/synapse/ignis with the trigger always held would make the game harder and all other weapons much more viable. its not even a matter of collecting ammo, its a matter of using ammo wisely and learning to take advantage of the bullets you have, its an amazingly simple concept that 99% percent of shooters have.

 

seriously, its a no brainer these guns need to switch ammo types for a number of reasons

 

-every other gun needs to actually think about ammo

-rifle ammo pool is too large for these guns (540 rockets?)

-rifle ammo is too common and restores to many units of ammo per pickup (this also applies to ammo restores)

 

maybe its just me but i cant even think of ONE solid game where "infinite rocket launcher" is something thats not a cheat code and enabled by default, nor can i even think ONE example where rockets by default have the same ammo capacity of as a machine gun.

 

You sure about that? Most modern shooters actually take a completely different approach to ammo. They purposely give the player a surplus just in case the player is trigger happy and can't aim. 

 

There really isn't a reason to nerf any weapon's ammo efficiency. All that does is make ammo mods a necessity and require great luck as far as ammo drops are concerned. If it wasn't for ammo mutation mods the Embolist and Twin Vipers would be nigh-unplayable without ammo restores or Nekros. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

I have the Ogris, I also have the Penta. I say both need to use 'Specialty Ammo' and not Rifle ammo.

 

I have both as well, and I disagree. There is no need to further dilute the ammo drop pool with a new ammo type.

[Makya]

You sure about that? Most modern shooters actually take a completely different approach to ammo. They purposely give the player a surplus just in case the player is trigger happy and can't aim. 

Can you list the modern shooters that assume their player base are spray and pray addicts or simple people who have crap aim and compare them to those who don't? I don't know of these games that have been good that canter to the crap accuracy players.

 

 

I have both as well, and I disagree. There is no need to further dilute the ammo drop pool with a new ammo type.

There is no need for a new ammo type, have it use specialty ammo, aka Sniper Ammo.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Makya

[Brimir]

That's why the most logical thing to do is to give them Sniper Ammo, with a 70-80 max ammo. Drakgoon should also be given Shotgun Ammo with roughly 250 or so max ammo: I love the thing, but 540 Ammo and 20 per Pickup is insane.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Can you list the modern shooters that assume their player base are spray and pray addicts or simple people who have crap aim and compare them to those who don't? I don't know of these games that have been good that canter to the crap accuracy players.

 

 

 

There is no need for a new ammo type, have it use specialty ammo, aka Sniper Ammo.

 

Wait... do you just want examples or do you want examples of GOOD modern shooters that do this? Oh well, I'll just list shooters that do this regardless of whether or not they are good- CoD, BF, Tribes, Killzone, AvP (some weapons), BioShock (especially infinite), Pretty sure Doom was like this too (not really modern though), etc.

 

As someone else said, the fix the Ogris needs is just a reduction to its max ammo pool. It doesn't need to be swapped to the rarest ammo type in the game.

[Brimir]

As someone else said, the fix the Ogris needs is just a reduction to its max ammo pool. It doesn't need to be swapped to the rarest ammo type in the game.

 

Uhm. No. That would do nothing. The maximum ammo is not the problem; it is the fact that you get 20 Rockets per Rifle Ammo pickup (the most common pickup in the game, mind you).

 

Even if the Ogris had a measly 20 Rockets MAXIMUM it would still have infinite ammo - what are the odds that you don't get at least one Rifle Ammo drop from the amount of enemies you can kill with 20 Ogris rockets?

Edited January 9, 2014 by Brimir

[SIDESTRE4M]

You still going around touting that "self-injury justifies infinite ammo"-line, Sidestream? Just admit that you want infinite ammo; don't try and justify it. There is no justifying it.

 

It is OK, we won't be mad at you.

You serious? I roughly need 20 capacity. I couldn't care less about whatever happens about it.

I'm just against it because I dislike the reasoning the likes of you come up with.

With this statement you couldn't have made it more clear that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

This whole rant about infinite ammo is just trivial considering the low fire rate and smal magazines what REALLY limits the player apart from thinking oh S#&$, I'm standing near the pod at t3 defense, and robots are lasering me or the pod. Would be easy with Synapse or Soma instead.

Your infinite ammo as you call it never had anything to do with what Ogris or Penta are all about.

I did cicero mobile defence 100% with aklex alone because of ammo effiency and the power and the flexibility it provided in contradiction to the launchers. I drew my Synapse as enemies closed in and you don't think I had to worry about ammo, do you?

I don't know what the people here are trying to accomplish and even with all the momentum you think you have with so many people wanting the same..

In the end if the launchers get sniper ammo I will laugh because I never dropped below 500 in the first place. Not even close.

So all you get with a nerf is nothing at all and I congratulate you for being too ignorant to admit it.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Uhm. No. That would do nothing. The maximum ammo is not the problem; it is the fact that you get 20 Rockets per Rifle Ammo pickup (the most common pickup in the game, mind you).

 

Even if the Ogris had a measly 20 Rockets MAXIMUM it would still have infinite ammo - what are the odds that you don't get at least one Rifle Ammo drop from the amount of enemies you can kill with 20 Ogris rockets?

 

I don't see how that's a problem. All that does is f- up a lot of builds by making ammo mods a necessity. If that. The Ogris is pretty much built for ammo conservation. And realistically, with a refill rate of ten per pickup, how would you expect a person to run out of rockets? Sniper Rifle ammo boxes are common enough that you're definitely getting at least one from the amount of enemies you're killing with ten rockets (twenty with barrel diffusion and good luck).

Edited January 9, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Magmahunter]

As someone else said, the fix the Ogris needs is just a reduction to its max ammo pool. It doesn't need to be swapped to the rarest ammo type in the game.

 

that's the problem...

 

the max ammo pool is defined by the type of ammo a weapon uses.

haven't noticed how all rifles have 540, all snipers/bows come with 74 and all pistols have 210 reserves? (don't ask for the shotgun though, i haven't used those as often as i should.)

 

in order to fix this 'issue' people want the ogris/penta/torid to use sniper ammo. not for the rarity of the ammo, but the small pool that's linked to it.

 

 

I don't see how that's a problem. All that does is f- up a lot of builds by making ammo mods a necessity. If that. The Ogris is pretty much built for ammo conservation.

 

Ogris is already as ammo efficient as it gets. AoE + low clip size + slow RoF = you're not gonna get through a fifth of your 545 rockets, unless the mission is dragging on for hours

Edited January 9, 2014 by Magmahunter

[Makya]

Wait... do you just want examples or do you want examples of GOOD modern shooters that do this? Oh well, I'll just list shooters that do this regardless of whether or not they are good- CoD, BF, Tribes, Killzone, AvP (some weapons), BioShock (especially infinite), Pretty sure Doom was like this too (not really modern though), etc.

 

As someone else said, the fix the Ogris needs is just a reduction to its max ammo pool. It doesn't need to be swapped to the rarest ammo type in the game.

Lets see..

You have limited Ammo in both CoD and BF, in multi player it is often not noticed as when you die and respawn you have full ammo. Please explain how this is giving too much ammo when you only actually have a few magazines worth

 

You also have starkly limited ammo in Killzone, their sniper rifles even have less than WF's, while you can collect ammo in larger numbers at certain areas, this does not give infinite ammo.

 

BioShock, I would like to know how you are having infinite ammo here when you often have sites to literally buy ammo because you mostly find ammo from killing opponent who are using a similar gun to the one you looted off them previously.

 

Doom is the same conditions as CoD, BF and even UT. You mostly don't notice from frequent respawning.

 

 

Outside of cheatcodes and mission tutorials you are not given infinite ammo.. Care to really explain how those games give infinite ammo or more ammo than you would ever need?

[Brimir]

Ogris is already as ammo efficient as it gets. AoE + low clip size + slow RoF = you're not gonna get through a fifth of your 545 rockets, unless the mission is dragging on for hours

 

 

You're not even going to go below 500 most of the time. As I said, the problem isn't maximum ammo capacity, but the amount of rockets each Rifle Ammo pickup restores.

[Magmahunter]

You're not even going to go below 500 most of the time. As I said, the problem isn't maximum ammo capacity, but the amount of rockets each Rifle Ammo pickup restores.

 

oh yea, forgot to add this to the equation...

[SquirmyBurrito]

that's the problem...

 

the max ammo pool is defined by the type of ammo a weapon uses.

haven't noticed how all rifles have 540, all snipers/bows come with 74 and all pistols have 210 reserves? (don't ask for the shotgun though, i haven't used those as often as i should.)

 

in order to fix this 'issue' people want the ogris/penta/torid to use sniper ammo. not for the rarity of the ammo, but the small pool that's linked to it.

 

 

 

Ogris is already as ammo efficient as it gets. AoE + low clip size + slow RoF = you're not gonna get through a fifth of your 545 rockets, unless the mission is dragging on for hours

 

I never really look at my weapon's ammo capacity until it is near empty. I use carrier and ammo mutation mods.

 

Lets see..

You have limited Ammo in both CoD and BF, in multi player it is often not noticed as when you die and respawn you have full ammo. Please explain how this is giving too much ammo when you only actually have a few magazines worth

 

You also have starkly limited ammo in Killzone, their sniper rifles even have less than WF's, while you can collect ammo in larger numbers at certain areas, this does not give infinite ammo.

 

BioShock, I would like to know how you are having infinite ammo here when you often have sites to literally buy ammo because you mostly find ammo from killing opponent who are using a similar gun to the one you looted off them previously.

 

Doom is the same conditions as CoD, BF and even UT. You mostly don't notice from frequent respawning.

 

 

Outside of cheatcodes and mission tutorials you are not given infinite ammo.. Care to really explain how those games give infinite ammo or more ammo than you would ever need?

 

Cod- Guns all over the ground, many of which are the exact same one you're using. And Multiplayer does you one better by giving you the ability to replenish ammo off dead bodies (and there are TONS of dead bodies if you're doing it right). A few magazine's worth equates to a ton of kills since most guns kill in a few bullets.

 

BF- You can replenish your and your teammate's ammo. 

 

KZ- Yeah, it kinda does.

 

BioShock- Kill tons of enemies, pick up their ammo, repeat. Not sure why I had to explain that.

 

Doom- IIRC you get tons of ammo in that game as well.

 

I never said you get literal infinite ammo, just that (like the Ogris) you are given so much ammo that you never run out. Don't shift the goal post.

Edited January 9, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Makya]

I never said you get literal infinite ammo, just that (like the Ogris) you are given so much ammo that you never run out. Don't shift the goal post.

You can run out of ammo in each of those games if you focus on spray and pray. You said yourself the targets give ammo when you kill them, but you only get ammo on return if you are careful of how much ammo you send in killing them. Using BioShock as a good example, you only get the ammo they were using, so using such logic you should only get Ogris ammo from using using a similar weapon(which is why several weapon in Bioshock were not used often as ammo for them was scarce, their chaingun and their missile launcher were the most heavily effected by this).  So going back to focusing on your point, you are given so much ammo you never run out, that holds true for every WF weapon from such a vague statement because if you are careful with your shots you will almost always make bank by the end of the mission, even with Vipers.