Why Can't High End Bows Do As Much Damage As Sniper Rifles?

[Makya]

Faulcun, You say to not compare the bows to anything but other bows as nothing is like them, so I have to ask this: 'Seeing as all weapon types have some sort of purpose, what is the purpose of bows? What bonus is there for the increased difficulty to use? Looking at the stats and the numbers, they are near the bottom of the list of efficient weapons to kill things with. So really, what is their pay off?'

Edited January 23, 2014 by Makya

[Leuca]

Well said. I'll need to do some tests under your perspective to come up with a proper retort.

No you won't. It takes a puncture mod on a Vectis to get about the same overall results as a bow with better damage, no flight time, and better crit rate.

 

By the time enemies are a high enough level to matter, both Dread/Paris Prime have both fallen off hard enough to be almost irrelevant, with the original Paris and Cernos being even worse. When enemies are a high enough level to take multiple shots to down, you are actually losing damage by not including some modded puncture like Shred, assuming you line up enemies as described above. When enemies are at a high enough level, Thunderbolt becomes an almost meaningless source of damage because it doesn't scale, and enemies have thousands upon thousands of health to wear down, some of them even having armor that causes Thunderbolt to have a damage penalty on top of its scaling-by-distance explosion mechanics. By the way, Faulcun's math is actually off; Thunderbolt has a less than 50% chance to proc even when combined with max Split Chamber.

 

It's silly NOT to compare bows to other weapon types, because they lack any sort of inherent advantage once their damage falls off enough to make the inherent knockback-on-death not worthwhile. If stuff is not dying at a fast enough to take advantage of an on-death bonus effect, your weapon is not effective.

 

My Paris Prime has a catalyst and 4 Forma, enough to have maxed out mods in every slot, and the maximum potential is just not there.

[Eruend]

Well, that's kinda what I was coming to in my first post here too. But he's right on one point, we may be wrong to compare it to snipers simply because one of the methods of use is similar, and the goal is the same.

 

That said, after testing it a bit, bows have their flavor for sure, though result-wise, they still don't offer anything that sets them apart from any other gun. They just have lower numbers for comparable results.

 

I DID see something interesting posted and it made me think about a way to make bows fill in their own niche, so that even lower stats wouldn't be too tragic. Someone posted about split-arrows. Why not? We're cyber space ninjas. Surely we can do a few of the stunts Legolas can. :p

 

The idea I'm hatching atm is to "probably" ban Split Chamber from bows and instead give them a Split Arrow mod. Not done thinking about the specifics and how to rank it up properly, but the working of the mod would be that you would fire off 3 arrows with it equiped. HOWEVER! The more you charge the bow, the tighter the spread gets. Yeah, I know. Just like the Drakgoon. (though I only now realised the similarity... XD). So fully charged would be 3 arrows in one pinpointed area in the same manner as Split Chamber when it sends out 2 shots, while giving the bow the versatility of hitting multiple targets for less damage, if you aim it right. The third shot on focus charge would be plenty to make up for the lack of base DPS on the bow itself.

 

Basically, the bow would become a cross of a shotgun and a sniper, while not necessarily outclassing either in their fields. Making it interesting to play. This is just a base idea that would still need work though, and probably need a tweak on the workings of how arrow charging damage scales (first charge phase would have the bow deal 40% of its damage, charge damage would only add from 41% to 70% during the drawing phase and it would skip to 100% damage on a full charge. Just pulled these numbers out of my arse for example's sake. They are likely a bad example at that...)

 

The real issue to adding this change is that then, Snipers may feel kinda lackluster in comparisson, so I was also thinking about a chain lightning proc mod for them. If it crits, 50% or maybe even just 25% of that damage is sent to nearby enemies as electric damage. It would encourage head-shots in crowds since crit chance seems to be amplified on weak points. (correct me if I'm wrong) Just to help them be a little less situational. They'd still be the same vs. heavy targets, and would likely clear low level mobs at just about the same rate as riffles, but riffles would still be the better crowd whackers in mid to high levels. Tweaking of the mod could be adjusted in how many times the chain lightning bounces and up to what range.

 

Maybe neither of these two mods are good ideas. But then again, maybe they would be insanely fun and we would see more people play what they feel like instead of sticking to tried and true builds.

 

also, I don't see any issue in making Thunderbolt scale off a small % of the arrow's damage instead of just capping it. Even 15% would be fine I think. It just feels dull atm. Needs some flavor in my opinion.

 

Also, if you feel riffles, shotguns or any other type of weapon would become dull in comparisson, then maybe adding specialty mods in this fassion for each gun type would fix things. If the game becomes too easy as a result, pump up the enemy stats a bit. To me it's more about flavor then effectiveness. Your play-style exploiting the Glaive is interesting, but the bow still falls short in having its own place in the game.

 

It's not about clearing rooms like a beast with little to no effort, it's about flavor. If it's not fun, it needs fixing. And right now, general concensus is that bows are lacking something to be fun to use.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Eruend

[Noble_Cactus]

Forgot to reply to this

 

bows are OP.

 

 

Interesting. You play similar to how I do, except you take more snap shots whereas I tend to take more time to line up groups for Shred.

 

Now the issue here is that you guys left at around 30-35 minutes, which is right where bows start falling off in effectiveness. I believe you even shot several Crewman and they didn't die in one hit? That's no good. Maybe that was the 10% of Split Chamber not proccing, I don't know. In any case,  bows begin to struggle against heavier units like Napalms/Heavy Gunners/Bombards even with Radiation or Viral on the Dread. And that's even with headshots.

[Faulcun]

Faulcun, You say to not compare the bows to anything but other bows as nothing is like them, so I have to ask this: 'Seeing as all weapon types have some sort of purpose, what is the purpose of bows? What bonus is there for the increased difficulty to use? Looking at the stats and the numbers, they are near the bottom of the list of efficient weapons to kill things with. So really, what is their pay off?'

No weapon has any other purpose other than to kill the enemy. There is no bonus to using any weapon above another at the end of the day. People simply want the easiest OP weapon for the fastest killing so they can out kill everybody else. Thats why you only see the tryhards running around with strun wraiths and nova. The bow isnt for those people. You play with the weapon because you respect its mechanics and have the ability to overcome its negatives.

 

No you won't. It takes a puncture mod on a Vectis to get about the same overall results as a bow with better damage, no flight time, and better crit rate.

 

By the time enemies are a high enough level to matter, both Dread/Paris Prime have both fallen off hard enough to be almost irrelevant, with the original Paris and Cernos being even worse. When enemies are a high enough level to take multiple shots to down, you are actually losing damage by not including some modded puncture like Shred, assuming you line up enemies as described above. When enemies are at a high enough level, Thunderbolt becomes an almost meaningless source of damage because it doesn't scale, and enemies have thousands upon thousands of health to wear down, some of them even having armor that causes Thunderbolt to have a damage penalty on top of its scaling-by-distance explosion mechanics. By the way, Faulcun's math is actually off; Thunderbolt has a less than 50% chance to proc even when combined with max Split Chamber.

 

It's silly NOT to compare bows to other weapon types, because they lack any sort of inherent advantage once their damage falls off enough to make the inherent knockback-on-death not worthwhile. If stuff is not dying at a fast enough to take advantage of an on-death bonus effect, your weapon is not effective.

 

My Paris Prime has a catalyst and 4 Forma, enough to have maxed out mods in every slot, and the maximum potential is just not there.

My math could be wrong.... but as I see it, you have a 100% chance to shoot an arrow. each arrow has a 30% chance to explode. With multishot I understand you dont have a 100% chance to shoot two arrorws, but when you do shoot two, which is the majority of the time, your chances have doubled to explode. Even if your overall chance is 50/50, its still worth it.

 

Now you talk about by the time enemies are high enough to matter... what exactly are you considering high enough? My dread performs flawlessly on every map even through pluto.  So Im assuming you are refering to endless defenses. So how high are you wanting to go? Cause if I plan to go 100 waves, I promise you 98% of the weapons will fall short to your expectations. Even 75 waves i wouldnt bring but a handful of specific weapons.

 

Even on survival, this dread will perform great on any map up to 30 min. Especially if you have a capable team. I wouldnt even be afraid of being the weakest link either. If you want to go longer, again I would probably only consider a handful of weapons. So I have to ask you, what exactly are you trying to turn the bows into? A portable nuke?

 

Well, that's kinda what I was coming to in my first post here too. But he's right on one point, we may be wrong to compare it to snipers simply because one of the methods of use is similar, and the goal is the same.

 

That said, after testing it a bit, bows have their flavor for sure, though result-wise, they still don't offer anything that sets them apart from any other gun. They just have lower numbers for comparable results.

 

I DID see something interesting posted and it made me think about a way to make bows fill in their own niche, so that even lower stats wouldn't be too tragic. Someone posted about split-arrows. Why not? We're cyber space ninjas. Surely we can do a few of the stunts Legolas can. :p

 

The idea I'm hatching atm is to "probably" ban Split Chamber from bows and instead give them a Split Arrow mod. Not done thinking about the specifics and how to rank it up properly, but the working of the mod would be that you would fire off 3 arrows with it equiped. HOWEVER! The more you charge the bow, the tighter the spread gets. Yeah, I know. Just like the Drakgoon. (though I only now realised the similarity... XD). So fully charged would be 3 arrows in one pinpointed area in the same manner as Split Chamber when it sends out 2 shots, while giving the bow the versatility of hitting multiple targets for less damage, if you aim it right. The third shot on focus charge would be plenty to make up for the lack of base DPS on the bow itself.

 

Basically, the bow would become a cross of a shotgun and a sniper, while not necessarily outclassing either in their fields. Making it interesting to play. This is just a base idea that would still need work though, and probably need a tweak on the workings of how arrow charging damage scales (first charge phase would have the bow deal 40% of its damage, charge damage would only add from 41% to 70% during the drawing phase and it would skip to 100% damage on a full charge. Just pulled these numbers out of my arse for example's sake. They are likely a bad example at that...)

 

The real issue to adding this change is that then, Snipers may feel kinda lackluster in comparisson, so I was also thinking about a chain lightning proc mod for them. If it crits, 50% or maybe even just 25% of that damage is sent to nearby enemies as electric damage. Just to help them be a little less situational.

 

Maybe neither of these two mods are good ideas. But then again, maybe they would be insanely fun and we would see more people play what they feel like instead of sticking to tried and true builds.

 

also, I don't see any issue in making Thunderbolt scale off a small % of the arrow's damage instead of just capping it. Even 15% would be fine I think. It just feels dull atm. Needs some flavor in my opinion.

 

Also, if you feel riffles, shotguns or any other type of weapon would become dull in comparisson, then maybe adding specialty mods in this fassion for each gun type would fix things.

 

It's not about clearing rooms like a beast with little to no effort, it's about flavor. If it's not fun, it needs fixing. And right now, general concensus is that bows are lacking something to be fun to use.

Interesting ideas! I respect your response. I can understand the fun factor argument. I agree TB would be much better if it scaled a bit with damage.  I just feel that some people just dont want to try before slamming a weapon and starting throwing around the buff and nerf words. So now DE sees there is an issue... but what exactly IS the issue? I look at the bows as a weapon for advanced players. We can all agree there is a much higher learning curve to make it shine. You have to consider what the idea behind the weapon was when it was created. When you create a rocket launcher, you make it with the idea that it is supposed to be easy kills. When you create something like the supra or the soma, I see easy kiils. You can see that by just looking at the numbers.

 

When I look at the bow, I see a weapon that requires a bit more effort. So now its up to DE to decide where the fine line lays between being lazy and an actual problem. Look at the melee system for example. You NEVER see people running through maps melee only. Why? Because it takes a lot of effort to be that fast and not get your butt handed to you on higher levels. Why would anybody even want to try when its so much easier to use an OP gun and nuke them from orbit. Can it be done? Sure! But it requires a different kind of skill set that most people dont want to take the time to learn. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at everything in a wider view. Sometimes you realize there is no spoon.

 

Btw, you and I should get a few games in together. I think that would be fun

[seiryuo]

There are no real bows in this game. Those that are classified as bows are actually railguns(based on Paris' description) so they should have high damage, though never as high as the sniper rifle.

[Eruend]

Sure Faulcun, I'd love to.

 

also, I'm a guy who tends to favor using melee over guns. XD

 

Thing that makes balancing difficult in this game is that there is little to no balance to start with. And the game is fine with this. Meaning that there are weapons that out-perform others in a clear way. What this brings is the false assumption that anything that isn't the best, is crap and useless. Hence the comparisons and the buff/nerf threads. It's not really that people want easy fixes to get through everything, it's purely due to distorted observations. Save for a few exceptions of course.

 

I'm also a person who believes that higher risks should bring higher rewards, which is why I both love and fear my Ogris. It exemplifies this perfectly. Sure, it has more clearing power then most other weapons in the game by a LARGE margin, but it tosses safety out the window to achieve this, limiting its uses.

 

Trouble with bows, is that the risk is high for little reward. Snipers aswell since they can't transition from one target to another easily. The reward can be anything from damage to unique mechanics. I favor creativity over simply pumping up stats because in the end, brute forcing things will always see you fall short when you come up against something stronger.

 

 

There are no real bows in this game. Those that are classified as bows are actually railguns(based on Paris' description) so they should have high damage, though never as high as the sniper rifle.

I agree with you on this bit. Even present day bows are scary strong. They are just too unwieldy compared to the point and click interface of guns. :p

 

Reason guns took the place of bows was never because guns are stronger, it was because they are easy to use. Less training required = larger number of competent soldiers in a shorter time. In this game, we're flipping space ninjas. Wielding a bow comes in the job description. XD

 

Heck, another reason for guns gaining the upper hand over bows is actually the sound. It's much scarier to hear a gun fire off then a bow. This point has served to weaken enemy morale on the front lines in the early stages of guns, where they were actually less powerful then bows. Morale counts for ALLOT in large scale battles.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Eruend

[Faulcun]

Forgot to reply to this

 

 

Interesting. You play similar to how I do, except you take more snap shots whereas I tend to take more time to line up groups for Shred.

 

Now the issue here is that you guys left at around 30-35 minutes, which is right where bows start falling off in effectiveness. I believe you even shot several Crewman and they didn't die in one hit? That's no good. Maybe that was the 10% of Split Chamber not proccing, I don't know. In any case,  bows begin to struggle against heavier units like Napalms/Heavy Gunners/Bombards even with Radiation or Viral on the Dread. And that's even with headshots.

yes, my snap shots were in an attempt at a blast from TB. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt :p I actualy dont run shred on mine. I just use the standard penetration on death mechanic. Ive gone much longer with my set up and 30 min, but yes you are right. A few times a single shot did not drop a crewman. Corpus are a little different because headshots arent as effective as body shots. So from that level and up its a gamble if you get your critical hit or not. That is the difference between OHK and having to take a second shot.  However I believe that if somebody expects a weapon to OHK all the time in order for it to be good, then they probably shouldnt be playing this game.

 

Anybody can OHK stuff up to a point. After that, you have to display some skill in being effective. Even though some things didnt go down in one hit, you can still see I wasnt having a difficult time with the enemies. The reason I suggested we leave when we did was because everybody else was going down a lot and was obviously having a much more difficult time than I was. I would like to point out the guy with the bow was carrying the team with weapons that were considered much more useful :p. I made the call because I didnt want to risk losing what we had gained so far.

 

But yes I agree against grineer its a little bit different. I plan to do a video of that here soon. Headshots are vital against grineer. That can be said for any weapon being used. But thats why we have powers and other weapons. Dont forget, you cant just use one weapon against everything anymore. Some weapons are naturally just more effective than others against some enemies.

[Yastin]

My math could be wrong.... but as I see it, you have a 100% chance to shoot an arrow. each arrow has a 30% chance to explode. With multishot I understand you dont have a 100% chance to shoot two arrorws, but when you do shoot two, which is the majority of the time, your chances have doubled to explode. Even if your overall chance is 50/50, its still worth it.

 

Okay, as for the math lesson, probability of success= 1- (probability of failures, multiplied)

 

As an example, you flip two coins, hoping for heads on either;

 

1 - (0.5*0.5) = 1 - 0.25 = 0.75, or 75% chance of getting heads at all. Pretty good.

 

Now, Thunderbolt with multi-shot;

 

1 - (0.7*0.7) = 1 - 0.49 = 0.51, or 51% BUT! there's only a chance multi-shot works. Albeit a high one.

 

0.51 * 0.9 = 0.459

 

So the realistic probability of thunderbolt to work, with multi-shot maxed, is 45.9%

 

That is, of course, assuming that multishot and Thunderbolt are not broken for clients, as crits and status procs are, currently.

[Eruend]

Yeah, I've been meaning to add a point on this too. Kept forgetting. Percentages aren't additive when adding more shots, otherwise you'd be guaranteed a crit after 4 shots with 25% chance, since it'd be at 100%. But you could verry well fire off 6 shots and never crit too.

 

That's because each shot individually calculates its proc/crit chances. It resets each time. You have increased chances with more shots, for sure,but the increase is probably just as Yastin says. There's never any guarantee on procs that are lower then 100%.

 

I for one suck at math and couldn't pull out Yastin's charts if I tried, but the basic idea is clear enough.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Eruend

[Faulcun]

Agreed, wasnt arguing the math. I was cool with rough estimates. I still think anything close to 50/50 is still worth it.

[Noble_Cactus]

yes, my snap shots were in an attempt at a blast from TB. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt :p I actualy dont run shred on mine. I just use the standard penetration on death mechanic. Ive gone much longer with my set up and 30 min, but yes you are right. A few times a single shot did not drop a crewman. Corpus are a little different because headshots arent as effective as body shots. So from that level and up its a gamble if you get your critical hit or not. That is the difference between OHK and having to take a second shot.  However I believe that if somebody expects a weapon to OHK all the time in order for it to be good, then they probably shouldnt be playing this game.

 

Anybody can OHK stuff up to a point. After that, you have to display some skill in being effective. Even though some things didnt go down in one hit, you can still see I wasnt having a difficult time with the enemies. The reason I suggested we leave when we did was because everybody else was going down a lot and was obviously having a much more difficult time than I was. I would like to point out the guy with the bow was carrying the team with weapons that were considered much more useful :p. I made the call because I didnt want to risk losing what we had gained so far.

 

But yes I agree against grineer its a little bit different. I plan to do a video of that here soon. Headshots are vital against grineer. That can be said for any weapon being used. But thats why we have powers and other weapons. Dont forget, you cant just use one weapon against everything anymore. Some weapons are naturally just more effective than others against some enemies.

 

I don't blame ya, I'd take the T3 key too. And you were putting in some good work.

 

Something I forgot to mention in my original post was that at around that point, I start using Sonar. That does alleviate some of the issues with using a bow against Heavies. Against big crowds, I Sonic Boom them and unload Despair into them with a full Seeker mod attached; it works wonders. So perhaps I just invalidated some of my original analysis :P I was mostly referring to how the threshold for bows losing effectiveness is lower than just about every other weapon.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Faulcun]

hahah I was planning on doing a banshee/dread video lol.

[Leuca]

My math could be wrong.... but as I see it, you have a 100% chance to shoot an arrow. each arrow has a 30% chance to explode. With multishot I understand you dont have a 100% chance to shoot two arrorws, but when you do shoot two, which is the majority of the time, your chances have doubled to explode. Even if your overall chance is 50/50, its still worth it.

 

Now you talk about by the time enemies are high enough to matter... what exactly are you considering high enough? My dread performs flawlessly on every map even through pluto.  So Im assuming you are refering to endless defenses. So how high are you wanting to go? Cause if I plan to go 100 waves, I promise you 98% of the weapons will fall short to your expectations. Even 75 waves i wouldnt bring but a handful of specific weapons.

 

Even on survival, this dread will perform great on any map up to 30 min. Especially if you have a capable team. I wouldnt even be afraid of being the weakest link either. If you want to go longer, again I would probably only consider a handful of weapons. So I have to ask you, what exactly are you trying to turn the bows into? A portable nuke?

Your chance on any given shot is somewhere between 45 and 49% to have an explosion whose damage decreases with distance and doesn't scale off of any sort of base damage. It is terrible against heavily armored units and only moderately effective against shielded ones. You actually end up losing single target damage with Thunderbolt. Considering you said yourself that the bow's strength is in its ability to knock something back upon death, hopefully triggering more damage/deaths, I don't know why you would bring Thunderbolt to high level content in the first place; it's good for farming low level enemies.

 

It is easier and more effective to spray and pray at pretty much any range you will realistically be firing from. I can kill group of enemies more easily with an automatic secondary weapon than I can with a bow, even assuming I get most of my shots lined up. If you are not getting the least amount of kills (assuming you don't spam powers/often swap to an automatic secondary weapon), your team is doing something wrong, or are using the same loadout as you. Bows are not effective support, CC, or dps. They are just numerically inferior to all of their conceivable primary counterparts once you get to a point where your loadout actually matters. And no, Pluto/Phobos do not count as end-game content.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Leuca

[Faulcun]

well, if by end game content (which arguably doesnt exist) you are refering to doing 100 wave defense, then I wouldnt bring anything other than a nova and a fully modded ogris. Almost anything else, and you would be doing it just for the challenge of it, not for the goal of succeeding. Even though ive done it with my lanka, a bow, sniper rifle, or shotgun would be nowhere near the top of my list of first choices. And lets face it, every melee weapon except for the glaive is useless. On top of that, id be hard pressed to bring anything other than my despair as well.

 

So then what? If we just nerf the whole game we wont have any more complaints for weapons right? Everything can have a max health that allows all high end bows, sniper rifles, and similar weapons to OHK no matter what level they are. This reduces time needed to learn to play, everybody can be awesome right away, increases fun factor, epeens skyrocket, and everybody is happy. Problem solved.

[Leuca]

well, if by end game content (which arguably doesnt exist) you are refering to doing 100 wave defense, then I wouldnt bring anything other than a nova and a fully modded ogris. Almost anything else, and you would be doing it just for the challenge of it, not for the goal of succeeding. Even though ive done it with my lanka, a bow, sniper rifle, or shotgun would be nowhere near the top of my list of first choices. And lets face it, every melee weapon except for the glaive is useless. On top of that, id be hard pressed to bring anything other than my despair as well.

 

So then what? If we just nerf the whole game we wont have any more complaints for weapons right? Everything can have a max health that allows all high end bows, sniper rifles, and similar weapons to OHK no matter what level they are. This reduces time needed to learn to play, everybody can be awesome right away, increases fun factor, epeens skyrocket, and everybody is happy. Problem solved.

There is a sizable range of enemy levels where weapons like Ogris are not required to do damage, yet bows are inferior.

[Eruend]

First off, if you're gona compare everything to top/god tier weapons, you'll find nothing stands up to them, not just bows. Your comparissons are flawed. Second, read the topic. You missed clear points covering everything you're talking about.

[Kaidinah]

What is more powerfull - sniper rifle bullet powered by highly explosive material, or stick powered by a string and a stick, even the most futuristic one?

Dude read weapon descriptions. The Bows have a "magnetic field to launch arrows capable of impaling enemies to walls." In other words, not only is it future string, with a compound bow of super allows being drawn by someone with super strength, but it also has super science to help launch the arrows.

[Issun135]

Screw you all just launch saw blades at enemies and be done with this petty argument. Moving on bows do need a damage buff or something... Or a mod that lets you shoot 3 arrows at once (yes I'm aware split chamber exists, but I mean we actually watch our tenno pull out 3 arrows and shoot them all Hawkeye style.)

[Eruend]

Love it when people come into a topic and stop reading after 3 posts. :D

[NikolaiLev]

Bows and sniper rifles both generally need buffs, bows needing it moreso (with the exception of the Vulkar which desperately needs a hearty buff).

 

Hopefully, the new addition of "Enemy Leaders" will make high-damage weapons a little more desireable, but even then, they need some love.  They just can't compete with automatic weapons elsewise.

[seiryuo]

well, if by end game content (which arguably doesnt exist) you are refering to doing 100 wave defense, then I wouldnt bring anything other than a nova and a fully modded ogris. Almost anything else, and you would be doing it just for the challenge of it, not for the goal of succeeding. Even though ive done it with my lanka, a bow, sniper rifle, or shotgun would be nowhere near the top of my list of first choices. And lets face it, every melee weapon except for the glaive is useless. On top of that, id be hard pressed to bring anything other than my despair as well.

 

So then what? If we just nerf the whole game we wont have any more complaints for weapons right? Everything can have a max health that allows all high end bows, sniper rifles, and similar weapons to OHK no matter what level they are. This reduces time needed to learn to play, everybody can be awesome right away, increases fun factor, epeens skyrocket, and everybody is happy. Problem solved.

There is no balance between the weapons. Automatic rifles and rocket/grenade launchers own the battlefield along with Nova/Loki while all of the required skill is to press the left mouse button whenever you see a bigger group of enemies.

A well moded vectis can't 1-shot(unless you've got a banshee) a 70 lvl corpus tech, but you can 4-shot it with Soma(from a similiar range) - taking 1/3 of the time needed to reload and aim another shot with the said vectis. So I suppose somewhere something went wrong...

[Eruend]

I think the point of his post flew right past you. We're all painfully aware that balance in this game is nearly non-existant. He was just saying how... Know what? I can't really think of a way to make it clearer then he already did. o_O

 

Maybe it's my own failing, so you may want to give it another read.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Eruend

[Leuca]

First off, if you're gona compare everything to top/god tier weapons, you'll find nothing stands up to them, not just bows. Your comparissons are flawed. Second, read the topic. You missed clear points covering everything you're talking about.

I'm not comparing bows to Ogris/Soma/Etc. I'm comparing them to pretty much everything else in the game that isn't Lato tier. Like I said before, there is a rather large range of levels where non god-tier weapons are still effective, yet bows are blatantly just bad.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Leuca

[Noble_Cactus]

But Ogris is the best bow.