Remove Shotgun Damage Dropoff Or Remove Spread Modifier Mods.

[Killerdude8]

Honestly, Damage dropoff makes absolutely no sense, and renders certain Shotguns useless beyond spitting Distance, and to add insult to injury, They give us Mods that affect the spread!

 

Why on earth would I EVER use Tainted Shell if it doesn't even matter?

 

Please DE make damage at range reliant on Spread, not some arbitrary number or whatever..

Edited January 24, 2014 by Killerdude8

[shut]

I wouldn't say that they should remove dropoff, but it definitely shouldn't be as harsh as it is now. A blast of pellets that hit like a pointy-grilled truck at 15m shouldn't be hitting like a feather duster at 25. That's ridiculous and adds nothing to gameplay, especially in a PVE game.

 

The primary source of reduced shotgun damage at long range should be spread, not falloff. We have mods that are intended to extend a shotgun's effective range; they should actually work.

I'm not saying that we should have the shotgun snipers of the old days, but we should at least be able to do damage past 25m when modded for additional range.

[Killerdude8]

I wouldn't say that they should remove dropoff, but it definitely shouldn't be as harsh as it is now. A blast of pellets that hit like a pointy-grilled truck at 15m shouldn't be hitting like a feather duster at 25. That's ridiculous and adds nothing to gameplay, especially in a PVE game.

 

The primary source of reduced shotgun damage at long range should be spread, not falloff. We have mods that are intended to extend a shotgun's effective range; they should actually work.

I'm not saying that we should have the shotgun snipers of the old days, but we should at least be able to do damage past 25m when modded for additional range.

I agree somewhat, But they should either;

A) Completely remove Dropoff from Shotguns

 

OR

 

B) Add dropoff to every other weapon

 

It doesn't make sense to completely screw over an entire weapon type, My favourite at that, and make them borderline useless, I mean they may not be useless, But at the ranges where they meet their full potential, They may as well be useless.

[CY13ERPUNK]

yes

+1 OP

makes no sense in having both negatives, hell reduce overall shotty dmg if its a problem power/balance-wsie, just get rid of the MASSIVE falloff (some falloff is fine, just not as extreme as it is right now)

[Yastin]

II agree whole-heartedly. +1. DE, as much as you love Drakgoon, all shotguns should be viable.

[VKhaun]

This isn't a real issue. It's a symptom of the low skill cap. If you assume some desire for headshots suddenly the spread matters again because your target just shrunk by 95%. If you were to drop falloff damage shotguns and try to balance with spread, they are all now just really crappy assault rifles... but no one in this thread would notice because they don't try to headshot anything with assault rifles either.

 

Every PUB game I finish I'm the only guy with any significant number of headshots. This isn't even me bragging or claiming to be L337 or whatever. There are games when I'm using IGNIS and I have the most headshots just by accident because no one is trying and I just happened to get the most kills so I happen to get the most accidental headshots.

 

To put that in perspective for shotguns... Every type of Grineer takes double damage to the head according to the wiki. That's +100%. That's more powerful than most mods already, stacks with everything as a final multiplier, and then you figure more pellets are hitting rather than missing entirely for zero damage? Accuracy is easily one of the best mods for applied DPS if you're actually playing a shooter game instead of just trying to RPG your way though with brute force stats and aiming center mass on everything.

Edited January 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[shut]

-snip-

 

What I'm seeing here is just a whole bunch of baseless assumptions about how completely unskilled and lazy us anti-dropoff people totally are. Exactly what was your post trying to accomplish?

 

 

Sincerely,

 

^<signature>

 

one of many shotgun headshotters.

[VKhaun]

 

-snip-

 

Then argue it instead of flaming me.

 

How is spread useless if headshots give you the single highest damage boost available to a 'shotgun headshotter'?

 

How is falloff relevant if you're a 'shotgun headshotter' and don't use a spread mod?

 

 

 

I don't assume, I observe and the OP implies. You can't call something useful useless unless you don't appreciate it's obvious uses.

Edited January 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[shut]

Then argue it instead of flaming me.

 

How is spread useless if headshots give you the single highest damage boost available to a 'shotgun headshotter'?

 

How is falloff relevant if you're a 'shotgun headshotter' and don't use a spread mod?

 

 

 

I don't assume, I observe and the OP implies. You can't call something useful useless unless you don't appreciate it's obvious uses.

 

I attack at the closest range possible with Strun Wraith, so tossing pellets into the enemy's face isn't a problem for me thanks to silly hitscan mechanics. I headshot mainly for heavier targets such as Heavy Gunners and bosses, though; bodyshots are reserved for small fry, since they die in a single hit anyways. 

My issue with spread is that reducing it isn't going to allow me to pick off pesky small fry from distances, everything from Lancers to Ospreys.

 

There's more use to shotguns than dealing maximum damage to a weak point on a sandbag, you know. Headshots on (most) shotguns serve no purpose on small fry, so -spread mods currently improve nothing in this regard and act as a near-direct downgrade against small fry (i.e. the majority of the game).

Edited January 24, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Yastin]

This isn't a real issue. It's a symptom of the low skill cap. If you assume some desire for headshots suddenly the spread matters again because your target just shrunk by 95%. If you were to drop falloff damage shotguns and try to balance with spread, they are all now just really crappy assault rifles... but no one in this thread would notice because they don't try to headshot anything with assault rifles either.

 

Every PUB game I finish I'm the only guy with any significant number of headshots. This isn't even me bragging or claiming to be L337 or whatever. There are games when I'm using IGNIS and I have the most headshots just by accident because no one is trying and I just happened to get the most kills so I happen to get the most accidental headshots.

 

To put that in perspective for shotguns... Every type of Grineer takes double damage to the head according to the wiki. That's +100%. That's more powerful than most mods already, stacks with everything as a final multiplier, and then you figure more pellets are hitting rather than missing entirely for zero damage? Accuracy is easily one of the best mods for applied DPS if you're actually playing a shooter game instead of just trying to RPG your way though with brute force stats and aiming center mass on everything.

 

Allow me to rebuttal... My friend, I use a bow. I am, in most cases, an archer. But I don't get many "headshots" on the stat page. This is because stats are broken at the end of most games, for clients. The reason that you're not seeing many headshots from others is not that you're hugely skilled, it's because you're impatient and start games early, or have a bad connection, and cannot get into other's games as a client most times. Also, shotguns are not MADE to aim for the head. Even for bonus damage, a shotgun is meant to be a twitchy up-close death-machine -most- of the time. But if somebody -wants- to saturate a farther off crowd in pellets, they should be able to. In fact, I hardly thing the extra spread is needed, but for some rare cases. It's not a problem that massively modded shotguns can snipe low-level trash mobs. It's a problem that there is no reward going to high-level missions with your high-level shotgun, and so all the lowby content people farm would be saturated in 'lol-OP' shotguns that are really no worse than the dude with a maxed Nova, Penta, Brakk, and Galatine taking down Apollodorus.

[VKhaun]

I attack at the closest range possible with Strun Wraith, so tossing pellets into the enemy's face isn't a problem for me. I headshot mainly for heavier targets such as Heavy Gunners and bosses; bodyshots are reserved for small fry, since they die in a single hit anyways. 

My issue with spread is that reducing it isn't going to allow me to pick off pesky small fry from distances. Everything from Lancers to Ospreys.

 

There's more use to shotguns than dealing maximum damage to a weak point on a sandbag, you know. Headshots on shotguns serve no purpose on small fry, so -spread mods currently improve nothing in this regard.

You don't headshot them because you don't need to, so at longer ranges you can't kill them because you don't headshot them because you're not using the mod? This is your argument?

 

I suppose you win then.

 

Yes, if you don't headshot the enemies then headshots don't help. You are absolutely correct. My point exactly.

[shut]

You don't headshot them because you don't need to, so at longer ranges you can't kill them because you don't headshot them because you're not using the mod? This is your argument?

 

I suppose you win then.

 

Yes, if you don't headshot the enemies then headshots don't help. You are absolutely correct. My point exactly.

What are you talking about?

 

I could tighten the spread to sniper-like accuracy and a headshot would still only take a medium-sized chunk off the enemy's health due to ludicrous dropoff. That is my issue.

 

 

EDIT: I'm not saying that -spread is useless on its own. I'm saying that it's useless on small fry because the only thing it could possibly improve against anti-smallfry combat is effective range, except for the fact that the godawful, unchangeable dropoff prevents even that.

Edited January 24, 2014 by SortaRandom

[VKhaun]

Allow me to rebuttal... My friend, I use a bow. I am, in most cases, an archer. But I don't get many "headshots" on the stat page. This is because stats are broken at the end of most games, for clients. The reason that you're not seeing many headshots from others is not that you're hugely skilled, it's because you're impatient and start games early, or have a bad connection, and cannot get into other's games as a client most times. 

Did not know stats were bugged. Maybe my impressions about attitude are incorrect then. They seem accurate for myself though. If I use a Vectis and go for the head I finish the game with mostly headshots. Is the last sentence of the above quote telling me it's only working for hosts? That does make sense. I set my min ping to 100 and usually do start my own games because of the error where I'm unable to join games because they were rejected due to ping setting.

 

 

 

 Also, shotguns are not MADE to aim for the head. Even for bonus damage, a shotgun is meant to be a twitchy up-close death-machine -most- of the time. But if somebody -wants- to saturate a farther off crowd in pellets, they should be able to. In fact, I hardly thing the extra spread is needed, but for some rare cases. It's not a problem that massively modded shotguns can snipe low-level trash mobs.

 If a dev gets on and says that people shouldn't have to headshot with shotguns then I will totally concede my entire point, but I don't think that's fair. There are heads, you get a damage buff for shooting them, and there's a mod that helps you shoot heads. This is pretty much 1+1+1 in my mind, but I'll admit we're into opinion until a dev makes a call. If indeed you believe a shotgun is 'meant' by design intent to never need to aim for the head, then OP is right and they shouldn't have falloff because at longer ranges the ability and intent of the Rifle platform to headshot would differentiate the two.

 

 

It's not a problem that massively modded shotguns can snipe low-level trash mobs. It's a problem that there is no reward going to high-level missions with your high-level shotgun, and so all the lowby content people farm would be saturated in 'lol-OP' shotguns that are really no worse than the dude with a maxed Nova, Penta, Brakk, and Galatine taking down Apollodorus.

Please clarify... I'll be honest and say I usually prefer assault rifles, but when I do use shotguns I usually do so vs Grineer. I use pistols for troops and the HEK for putting tons of rad/puncture into the faceplate of Napalms and Bombards. Seems to work fine for me.

 

Obviously if you do the 'endless' missions most shotguns start to suck because you eventually cross a line where you don't kill things in one shot, then another line where not in two shots, then another when not in three... vs an assault rifle firing a continuous stream of bullets that goes up smoothly wave to wave and only significantly breaks at needing to reload.

[ChaliceSoul]

I say yes to a smaller damage drop in fall-off for shotguns, to say shotguns are advertised as "room-clearing" it should at least have the distance to do so. I go up close and all I can do is fill one target full of buckshot.

[Killerdude8]

Well, Here went and took some Screenshots to illustrate mine, and MANY, many other peoples Problem.

 

Close up, Does a bunch of Damage, Not a problem here.

 

Slightly Further away, Still doing a bunch of Damage.

 

Now, Here's where it starts to really suck &amp;#&#33;, Slightly further away than the last screenshot and I am down to HALF THE DAMAGE I'm like what 10m-15m away and I am doing HALF damage? No thanks, This is not cool.

 

This next one here just further proves the point, as I went further, the damage just got worse...

 

Seriously, This makes me sad, Shotguns are always so much fun, while being so good, but in Warframe they are just not good.

 

 

And this is Skill Based....   How..?

Edited January 24, 2014 by Killerdude8

[Boondorl]

I'm convinced most of the people who say shotguns are OP and need drop-off have yet to take any of them into actual high level content (level 40+).

[Paradoxbomb]

+1, shotguns are suppose to be versitile in dealing a massive payload of damage at point blank to a single target, or dealing reduced damage to a tight crowd at medium. While dropoff isn't *that* bad considering using a shotgun from too far away is just stupid, having damage falloff in addition to spread just seems like a double whammy at people using it for the latter.

 

Just remove damage falloff and increase pellet spread so that way they're actually shotguns and not psuedo-snipers.