Zephyr Goes Through Energy Too Fast For Too Little Effect.

[PettiTheYeti]

To top this off, I like Zephyr. A lot. DE, you did a great job on her. All the abilities fit well, and are fun to use, and the frame itself looks incredible.

 

However, I'm astounded that the energy costs for her abilities are so high. It's insane.

 

Tail Wind, part 1 is almost exactly a Super Jump. That's it. Super Jump only costs 10 energy, so why does Zephyr's cost 25?

 

Tail Wind, part 2 is essentially a Slash Dash after having done a Super Jump. This combo is pretty much as old as the game, certainly from before I started playing last summer, so now that it's combined into the same ability in two parts, why does it total to 50 energy TW1(25) + TW2(25), when Excalibur's combo of SJ(10) + SD(25) totals 35?

 

Dive Bomb is pretty fun, but it costs another 25 energy. If you combo it, TW1 + TW2 + DB = 75 Energy to jump into the air, fly about 20 feet forward, and do an almost imperceptible amount of AOE damage. Dive Bomb has only been useful to me when combined with Heavy Impact, and even then, it's not worth the cost of chaining together a combo for it.

 

As it stands right now, Zephyr either needs energy costs cut by 1/3rd to be viable for the strength of her abilities, or the damage her abilities can do needs to be buffed through the roof, because for 75 energy on any other frame, you get some pretty sick abilities.

 

Turbulence and Tornado are awesome. I have nothing bad to say about them, other than maybe Tornado should follow Zephyr around like Ember's World on Fire, but that's hardly a complaint.

Edited February 6, 2014 by PettiTheYeti

[Mordavia1982]

is this with fleeting experience and streamline?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Mordavia1982

[Liverslices]

is this with fleeting experience and streamline?

Fleeting expertise would be bad, since it negatively effects duration.

[Ameretat]

Streamline makes a world of difference. 

 

Also, not sure if she's meant to be a 'power spammer' frame. Look at her health/shields, WAY too high for a 'caster' 

[HailCreation]

is this with fleeting experience and streamline?

With streamline it's ridiculous.

 

If you get fleeting expertise you'd NEED continuity at max to even think about mitigating the damage done to duration. Tornado would not last long enough to be effective, and turbulence wouldn't either. 

 

 

Streamline makes a world of difference. 

 

Also, not sure if she's meant to be a 'power spammer' frame. Look at her health/shields, WAY too high for a 'caster' 

No, it really doesn't. I have streamline on and still run out of energy extremely fast if I was to try and move around with tailwind. 

 

Tailwind costs too much for what it does. It's a super jump with a lame damage mechanic that is annoying to actually hit the enemy with. Maybe you can hit an osprey, but to use it on the ground you need to be at relatively close range and hop in the air.

Edited February 6, 2014 by HailCreation

[OnyxAlchemyst]

Fleeting expertise would be bad, since it negatively effects duration.

This. Fleeting expertise significantly reduces the flight distance of tail wind.

[Ameretat]

@Hail, streamline and focus, I literally spammed the 1/2 combo 10-15 times before running out of energy.

 

Also, dive bomb IS useless, I agree, but one thing to remember; You can activate your second part of your 1 aimed up in the air to double the effective height, making it slightly more useful.

 

Another tip I found, jump normally then press 1. Saves needing to cast it twice to 'dash'

[PettiTheYeti]

@Hail, streamline and focus, I literally spammed the 1/2 combo 10-15 times before running out of energy.

 

Also, dive bomb IS useless, I agree, but one thing to remember; You can activate your second part of your 1 aimed up in the air to double the effective height, making it slightly more useful.

 

Another tip I found, jump normally then press 1. Saves needing to cast it twice to 'dash'

 

Great tips, but the abilities still cost way too much for what they are.

 

Even using TW twice, aimed into the air for more height, it's just a Super-Super Jump. That's not worth 50 energy.

 

Slash Dash/Rhino Charge do the same thing as hopping before using TW, and do it more reliably, and for seemingly higher damage, so again, it's not really worth it.

 

If we can get the costs reduced to, say, 15 energy for each cast, that would be ideal.

Edited February 6, 2014 by PettiTheYeti

[derclaw]

Fleeting + Streamlime is not that bad lol.

 

Just dont max Fleeting - leave it at rank 4. Then Continuity and Nightmare mod can net you 108% duration.

 

This is pretty much a stapple combo of mods if you want to go badonka with greatly reduced energy cost but without sacrifice of overall power.

Yeah. Takes 4 mods (takes 5 if you will throw in Flow just to forget about your energy issues and just use your skills whenever you want). Still worth it IMO, even if its broken as fuk.

 

You still have room for your Shileds mod and her HP is high enough with base value so you can throw some utility stuff on top.

 

I run this loadout on Valkyr - 7 energy Ripline is kinda funny to mess around.

 

Still I agree that 25 energy for Tail Wind on both casts as base values is BS.

And buff dive bomb for god sake.

Edited February 6, 2014 by derclaw

[HailCreation]

@Hail, streamline and focus, I literally spammed the 1/2 combo 10-15 times before running out of energy.

 

Also, dive bomb IS useless, I agree, but one thing to remember; You can activate your second part of your 1 aimed up in the air to double the effective height, making it slightly more useful.

 

Another tip I found, jump normally then press 1. Saves needing to cast it twice to 'dash'

Find that hard to believe because with max streamline the combo costs 35 energy (36 because energy cost rounds up so instead of 17.5+17.15 it's 18+18).

 

Casting it 10 times would cost 350 energy. You can only have 300 energy max. That's with a max flow. Math dun work out. Unless you mean to say fleeting instead of focus. 

[MoyuTheTrinity]

i wana see her super jump cost 10 then 15 to reactivate it to "glide" boost forward and the further down you look the more speed you get and if you look to far up you pitter out of momentum unless you activate it again for another 15 energy to boost forward again and this will let you "fly" around the area saving her from having all 4 of her skills cloned from other warframes and energy cost of her main ability

 

edit: maybe limit her to 1 glide boost a level of the skill giving her 4 after super jump

Edited February 6, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Terrornaut]

She's fine with power use if you don't use divebomb really.

I have fleeting expertise at 50% (yes -50% duration), continuity, streamline, stretch, constituion, and narrow minded (54%) 
Tail wind costs 5 energy.
I think Tornado is 25 energy.
Power Duration: +30 +28 +54 -50 = +62%
Power Cost: 30 + 50 = 80% (capped at 75%)
Range: +9%

Everything still goes far and lasts longer.  I am frequently at max energy with this build and I can stay up in the air without touching the ground, keep tornadoes active, throw in turbulence if I need to stay in a fight rather than retreat/reposition with TW.  Zeph is gold.

Fleeting Expertise is perfectly fine to have.  I have no problem with her power usage - but if you try and throw divebomb in there, yeah, you'll run out. Even when it works, its not worth the slot really.  Its cool but awkward to use and not strong/wide enough in any fashion.

[00zau]

What would y'all think of this for a solution: After using Tail Wind, Zephyr can use Tail Wind 1/1/2/3 times (effected by focus) for free, with these free uses expiring after 5 seconds (effected by duration). Now you can do your Tail Wind maneuver combos for a total of 25 energy.

[Tollwut]

The Tail Wind is NOT a juperjump... it's like Rhinos or Excals Charge, only more powerful (At least in my opinion/setup).

25 Energy is totally fine for that, and that is without efficency mods installed.

 

I find myself spamming my abilities practiacally nonstop without running out of energy...

Dive Bomb could be useful, if the Damage was increased and it stopped bugging out and doing absolutely nothing...

[HailCreation]

The Tail Wind is NOT a juperjump... it's like Rhinos or Excals Charge, only more powerful (At least in my opinion/setup).

25 Energy is totally fine for that, and that is without efficency mods installed.

 

I find myself spamming my abilities practiacally nonstop without running out of energy...

Dive Bomb could be useful, if the Damage was increased and it stopped bugging out and doing absolutely nothing...

In the highlight video the ability was referred to as like super jump.

 

It's also substantially weaker than rhino charge or slash dash in terms of damage. On top of that it's annoying to target. You need to hop of the ground first to use it offensively. 

[Terrornaut]

She's not an easy frame to get used to - something I never really considered would happen.  You do get used to her though - the tail wind aiming, 'kind of' predicting tornado movement (or maybe its all just mad chaos magery)...

 

Divebomb is her only sorespot after playing quite a few hours with her (forma'd her once already).  I've used her in regular missions, survival, ODS, ODD, T2S, T3D...tried that new mission mode once and don't really have an interest in it.  Think I'd avoid it the same way I avoid spy missions.  Anyway, getting off topic.

When you slap some mods on her, she's great.  Her TW is a mobility tool - though I've come to enjoy carpet bombing/crop dusting with her.  DB I probably won't use even if they fix it and buff the AOE range.  Turbu is absolutely great.  Tornadoes are fun, helpful, though slightly annoying with their throwing newly made drops around.  They don't toss existing ones.

The game changes when you get comfortable with her.  I definitely feel like this was a worthwhile addition.  Might even be one of my top 3 favorites now.

[luanle21]

spam build with all 4 ability maxed and forma for aura is optional

fleeting

streamline

constitution

flow

redirection

continuity

and that basically is a spam build for her

the 2 duration mods makes up most of the duration except for 2%

and forma is not needed, but i still will cause i like energy siphon