The Nova Conundrum

[ExplodingStars]

The proposed "Balance" for Molecular prime seems more like a buff than anything.

 

The debuff to enemies is more than enough, adding a defensive team buff to the ability seems rather superfluous.

 

M prime would still be relatively spammable regardless of the addition of Duration. It can still be casted within a small amount of time with Fleeting expertise at a ridiculously low cost with Streamline.

 

I don't think adding Duration on would balance the ability much since one would still prime almost everything with Overextended.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ExplodingStars

[Hyunsai]

Yes I have to admit that while the chaining spam is the biggest motivator for suggesting a rebalance to the skill it also has to be said that the 'game' is entirely balanced around that tier. Everything from Mercury to Pluto, Orokin Derelicts, and T1-3 are in the 1-40 level range that can be P4W to instant death. Sadly the player base of longer term players who tend to claim abilities are 'useless' and 'don't work at high tier' forget that theres no such thing as 'High' tier at the moment outside of an artifical endgame create from an automated scaling mechanic that gives no benefits or rewards.

 

Thank you.

[Mystokai]

Then add 10 to 20 second CD to Molecular Primes, whats the big deal? There will be less spamming.

 

 

Like if Anti-Matter Drop with proper weapon doesnt deal 100k+ damage? Even if that is smaller radius...

[Erondight]

The proposed "Balance" for Molecular prime seems more like a buff than anything.

 

The debuff to enemies is more than enough, adding a defensive team buff to the ability seems rather superfluous.

 

M prime would still be relatively spammable regardless of the addition of Duration. It can still be casted within a small amount of time with Fleeting expertise at a ridiculously low cost with Streamline.

 

I don't think adding Duration on would balance the ability much since one would still prime almost everything with Overextended.

The point of the buff rework is the ability would be locked for 60 seconds while that armor buff was in place. Such a long cooldown would put a deterant on just spamming the ability after running from one room to the next and repeating the P4W.

[Longinus01]

The point of the buff rework is the ability would be locked for 60 seconds while that armor buff was in place. Such a long cooldown would put a deterant on just spamming the ability after running from one room to the next and repeating the P4W.

 

That'd slow 'em down I bit I guess but I'd rather they reduce the 200% damage buff on enemies. Perhaps reduce it to 150% and get rid of the slow.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

umm the op also make a typical Nova's spamming response that we seen many times as well. 

When a similar thread emerge, same responses will emerge. 

 

The poster already stated that the problem with Nova is: "My issue is with the ability to spam said ability every time theres an enemy within a moderate radius. If your not the player caught up in the power fantasy of mowing hordes of mindless drones to death it just makes the game easy and boring." 

Which is why I said Nova is not the only one who's capable of spamming.

 

His balance is this: "My idea to balance the ability is to make it more universal then just debuff enemies. Have Molecular Prime benefit the players, including Nova, caught in the burst as well by providing a long duration energy shield or armor buff to help offset the squishiness factor of the glass frame."

Which is why I said Nova's m-prime is already benefit the players, including Nova (because it work on mobs as a whole) Who are your enemies? The mobs. 

Op realized her squishiness as stated Nova as a glass cannon so they offered more shield and armor buff. Is this the balance you're talking about? 

I mean Nova can have like 15 armor, and shield just like Valkyr I wouldn't even mind as long as the power stayed the same. Because no matter how many shield or armor she have it doesn't changed the fact her power doesn't have enough ult for survival. 

 

So yes, I read the thread, if you have any problem then instead of calling someone out for :"not reading the thread"

why not contribute to it. 

And I doubt you ever call anyone out for not-reading-the-thread before beside me (just because you don't like my idea)

as I'm not the only one who's "not reading the thread"

 

Does it benefit players? Well, yes, in the terms that they don't need to worry about the enemies it eliminated anymore. But is it /fun/ for those players? No. No it isn't. I have been in those rooms where lazy Novas drop MPrime the moment there's more than 3 enemies in a bunch. It's not fun, it makes me want to go AFK. I'm obviously not needed in such a scenario. If your co-operative game makes your players feel unnecessary, you are doing it wrong.

 

And I'm calling you out because your "There is nothing wrong with Nova shut up" nonsense is a big part of what is wrong with these forums. Are you the only one doing it? No, but you're a regular in these topics. At this point, I'm only reflexively attacking you because I've gotten tired of you reflexively attacking anyone trying to discuss this matter.

[Thaumatos]

"Nobody has the right to stop anyone from posting.

I post on almost every topic here, not just ones about nova

I read this thread, what is your point? Moving on."

 

That should be how it is written.

 

 

However, I have to disagree with the free speech part of your post.

People who don't know what they are talking about, or are just plain dumb shouldn't be allowed to post feedback on beta games. (not specifically mentioning anyone here)

 

Well that's your opinion, but the truth is that these forums are paid for by DE and monitored by DE.  They can, do, and should add/remove/suspend individuals as they see fit.  You've agreed to that legally when you created an account here.  The "Free Speech" argument only works for individuals in real life and only in countries that allow it.  As soon as you use someone else's service to host your speech, they can police it as they see fit as long as you agree to their terms.

 

My point is you give the OP crap for starting "another nova topic" when all you do is make the typical "don't touch nova at all ever" response that we've ALSO seen 10000000000 times. That strikes me as hypocritical, especially because the poster is trying to find a balance for her strongest power, rather than ask for a straight up nerf.

 

Don't feed the troll.  He posts angry, hateful messages at those whom he disagrees.  Just ignore him and move on.

 

I find the glass cannon approach more entertaining.

 

DE made a huge mistake by killing Snow Globe instead of giving the enemy a means to fight back.  Killing Snow Globe renders it inactive.  Warframe is an action game.  Giving the enemies a means to fight back promotes action.  They shouldn't continue to repeat the same mistakes.

 

Their "means of fighting back" is to actually be able to destroy Snow Globe now.  You'd have disagreed with any change that resulted in the enemies being able to dispel it, don't lie.

[Cwierz]

Yes I have to admit that while the chaining spam is the biggest motivator for suggesting a rebalance to the skill it also has to be said that the 'game' is entirely balanced around that tier. Everything from Mercury to Pluto, Orokin Derelicts, and T1-3 are in the 1-40 level range that can be P4W to instant death. Sadly the player base of longer term players who tend to claim abilities are 'useless' and 'don't work at high tier' forget that theres no such thing as 'High' tier at the moment outside of an artifical endgame create from an automated scaling mechanic that gives no benefits or rewards.

 

Honestly outside subpar bragging rights or a desire to farm longer the elitist ideal that High 'tier' exists because your working at an end game level is complete ego fluff. The problem comes in because that artifical endgame has jaded the section of the community that enjoys a challenge and thats the only way to get it in an engine with balancing centered around a single frames abilities. While yes this is a party optional game at current the engine doesn't account for multiple frames with P4W abilities outside throwing more enemies at you.

 

Thus the counter argument that Nova's ultimate is 'balanced' because it scales for 'High' tier is completely pointless. Its the same argument that was made for Rhino's Iron Skin nerfs and the eternal Bastile.

I have found another person who realizes what one of the huge problems with the game is!

Rejoice.

 

Really, my motivations to nerf Nova is that she just sucks variety out of the frames you see, and always will (presuming players leveling mastery not included). That and the fact that she is so far and away guilty of trivializing game content.

 

If DE buffs the frames correctly, which is what it looks like they are attempting at the very least (making every skill useful in some form, while not being overly situational) nova will continue to suck the choice between frames out, because the truth of the matter is that no matter how much the rest are changed, when you compare the other frames to nova it is like a tank shell to an atomic bomb. 

 

I already know that just increasing damage numbers won't work, you see it time and time again. It just doesn't work, you end up spending hundreds of game dev. hours on something meaningless in the end, versus actually balancing a game. To add on to that, most of the cries for that are simply because people just don't want nova touched, not because they want to see the other frames do well (some are exceptions, but that is generally the norm)

[Taranis49]

Yes I have to admit that while the chaining spam is the biggest motivator for suggesting a rebalance to the skill it also has to be said that the 'game' is entirely balanced around that tier. Everything from Mercury to Pluto, Orokin Derelicts, and T1-3 are in the 1-40 level range that can be P4W to instant death. Sadly the player base of longer term players who tend to claim abilities are 'useless' and 'don't work at high tier' forget that theres no such thing as 'High' tier at the moment outside of an artifical endgame create from an automated scaling mechanic that gives no benefits or rewards.

 

Yes and no - in principal/detail respectively: T3 Void Defense, for example went up to the 50-odd range when it had a fixed number of waves you needed to go through to finish the mission (and thus get rewarded). Likewise, depending on planet/node, the enemy's level is definitely going to exceed the level 40 range by the time you hit the 35 minute mark on Survival (considering that, by design, Survival gives its second guaranteed key reward by that point, I'd consider it reasonable to expect the game be balanced up to then).

 

Most P4W abilities start to show their age by either point, if they haven't been shipped off to the old folks' home already.

 

The issue is with balance and abilities in general. Long and short, it's a mess. With the majority of frames, the first ability is very rarely worth equipping (particularly in comparison to the #3 or #4) and a lot of "P4W" abilities cease having a real function even the level range we arguably "should" be playing at, particularly since a good chunk of them are little more than different colored variants of one another.

[ThePresident777]

I play Warframe because it allows me to inflict catastrophe on the enemy.  Nerfing the player removes his ability to inflict catastrophe which attacks the reason why I play Warframe therefore nerfing the player is not acceptable.  You don't create an entertaining, compelling, challenging game environment out of bullet spongee lemmings by making the player weak.  All you do is create tedium, not challenge, not entertainment.  Tedium increases the demand for stocked accounts which increases the profits of

(or any gold farmer for that matter).

 

If you want to challenge the player and thwart gold farmers, then you make the enemy more actively challenging and the player's action more entertaining, not tedious.  Entertainment can be as simple as incinerating a football field of mooks in a glorious inferno.

 

The enemy could show up in a huge mob of mooks with a commander.  The fire works take care of the mooks, leaving the weakened commander exposed to the team to be dealt with before the next commander and mook wave shows up. 

 

If you nerf the player, that does nothing to make the enemy more interesting.  Nerfing the player leaves the enemy as dull and dumb as ever.  All that nerfing the player does is make the game more tedious which is good for gold farmers all throughout the world, Chinese or not.

 

 

Really, my motivations to nerf Nova is that she just sucks variety out of the frames you see, and always will (presuming players leveling mastery not included). That and the fact that she is so far and away guilty of trivializing game content.

 

What sucks variety out the Warframes and what trivializes content is the content itself.  It's dumb and lacks interesting action.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Falchoin]

DE made a huge mistake by killing Snow Globe instead of giving the enemy a means to fight back.  Killing Snow Globe renders it inactive.  Warframe is an action game.  Giving the enemies a means to fight back promotes action.  They shouldn't continue to repeat the same mistakes.

 

Ironically I feel DE did exactly as you said by making Snow Globe have hp, enemies can fight back which promotes action.

[-CM-Syein]

 

 

 

Don't feed the troll.  He posts angry, hateful messages at those whom he disagrees.  Just ignore him and move on.

 

 

 

I think you're talking about yourself. Read the whole posts again and see which one is the one posting angry one. 

 

And I already stated regarding the limit of Nova in certain situations, so to people who said they want her nerf, here are the two  problems they usually posted 

1) She spam abilities (in which any aoe ults capable of spamming it) so I don't careless about the duration on m-prime

2) Her ability scale (scale abilities are encourage in this game, because the mobs scale) I don't get why people don't like it. It's doesn't necessary affect them. So for those who want to stay at low lvl, they can. Those who want to go higher, they can as well. 

[ThePresident777]

Ironically I feel DE did exactly as you said by making Snow Globe have hp, enemies can fight back which promotes action.

 

It makes Frost the same experience as any other Warframe so it promotes the same exact action over and over and over...............

 

If, on the other hand, DE gave the Grineer units, strategies, and tactics to fight specific Tenno actions, then, when the Tenno use Snow Globe, the Grineer use their Snow Globe response, which could be varied, so you get a smart enemy with a variety of reactions depending on the Tenno squad's actions which will probably depend on the mission, map, or faction.  But, by taking the brain dead approach, DE has made the game brain dead.  Then people wonder why the game has no challenge and is all grind.  It's the result of that nerfer mentality.  It's not creative.

 

 

Their "means of fighting back" is to actually be able to destroy Snow Globe now.  You'd have disagreed with any change that resulted in the enemies being able to dispel it, don't lie.

 

Just spotted this, but, my response above to Falchoin applies here.  Plus, a side note, I like to play high level content.  It bugs me that so few people play Pluto, Neptune, and Ceres.  I like to play survival up to and into the point where the enemy one shot Tenno and I like to blow them up in huge mobs into nothingness.  I like to play no shield and/or energy drain.  During the Gravidus Dilema, I didn't complain about the waves of high level bombard and napalms.  It was risky and fun.  And, I like to blow up waves of enemy into poofs of nothingness.  I like a fast fast fast TTK and I don't mind if the enemy have one to.

 

What I don't like is God like enemy, especially the AI.  That is just nonsense, and even worse in a Horde Mode game, in a game predicated on a 4 person team against a billionwhatever enemy.  Strength in numbers.  S#&$s got to die, a lot of it.  It doesn't mean that the Tenno have it easy or succeed.  It just means a lot of fun fire works.  I enjoy that aesthetic and the action.  And if Extra Credits don't like it then Extra Credits be damned.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Cwierz]

It makes Frost the same experience as any other Warframe so it promotes the same exact action over and over and over...............

 

If, on the other hand, DE gave the Grineer units, strategies, and tactics to fight specific Tenno actions, then, when the Tenno use Snow Globe, the Grineer use their Snow Globe response, which could be varied, so you get a smart enemy with a variety of reactions depending on the Tenno squad's actions which will probably depend on the mission, map, or faction.  But, by taking the brain dead approach, DE has made the game brain dead.  Then people wonder why the game has no challenge and is all grind.  It's the result of that nerfer mentality.  It's not creative.

 

 

 

Just spotted this, but, my response above to Falchoin applies here.  Plus, a side note, I like to play high level content.  It bugs me that so few people play Pluto, Neptune, and Ceres.  I like to play survival up to and into the point where the enemy one shot Tenno and I like to blow them up in huge mobs into nothingness.  I like to play no shield and/or energy drain.  During the Gravidus Dilema, I didn't complain about the waves of high level bombard and napalms.  It was risky and fun.  And, I like to blow up waves of enemy into poofs of nothingness.  I like a fast fast fast TTK and I don't mind if the enemy have one to.

 

What I don't like is God like enemy, especially the AI.  That is just nonsense, and even worse in a Horde Mode game, in a game predicated on a 4 person team against a billionwhatever enemy.  Strength in numbers.  S#&$s got to die, a lot of it.  It doesn't mean that the Tenno have it easy or succeed.  It just means a lot of fun fire works.  I enjoy that aesthetic and the action.  And if Extra Credits don't like it then Extra Credits be damned.

 

It doesn't matter if you like to play games where you like to feel like a god, that isn't good for DE. If they made their game like you want it to be, people will get bored of it, YOU will get bored of it. Nobody likes to just watch explosions for hours on end, or sit in the corner while mama Nova makes it go boom so the player can get off to all of the damage he is doing. Sure, in concentrated amounts it can be some good eye candy at best, but what you want is a game where balance is thrown out the window, and you can make everything die by pressing one button. That is just dumb, and it really baffles me why you cant understand it.

 

Hell, you even said you hate monotonous games, yet, you seem to have no problems at all being a nova pressing four, and watching some numbers and a white flash.

 

Sure AI can be improved, but that won't matter a rats &#! if nova can just do what she does still. You call for AI development, yet you want extremely fast time to kill so you will never even see it.

 

You call people out on being "nerfers", when you don't understand a god damn thing about balance, except the words Extra Credits, which is near-unrelated, and the word nerf, which you are vehemently apposed against because it might make you work for that damage you just did. 

 

You don't understand why the AI isn't getting improvements either, probably because you haven't looked into it at all.

 

And what do you blame the lack of AI on? People who want balance(which is an inherently good trait mind you), masked behind your perceived insult of "nerfer".

[Erondight]

I play Warframe because it allows me to inflict catastrophe on the enemy.  Nerfing the player removes his ability to inflict catastrophe which attacks the reason why I play Warframe therefore nerfing the player is not acceptable.  You don't create an entertaining, compelling, challenging game environment out of bullet spongee lemmings by making the player weak.  All you do is create tedium, not challenge, not entertainment.  Tedium increases the demand for stocked accounts which increases the profits of

(or any gold farmer for that matter).

 

If you want to challenge the player and thwart gold farmers, then you make the enemy more actively challenging and the player's action more entertaining, not tedious.  Entertainment can be as simple as incinerating a football field of mooks in a glorious inferno.

 

The enemy could show up in a huge mob of mooks with a commander.  The fire works take care of the mooks, leaving the weakened commander exposed to the team to be dealt with before the next commander and mook wave shows up. 

 

Theres a thousand arguments that could be made about the value of a random opinion on the forums and what is 'acceptable' but lets focus on the main post.

 

The suggestions that the original made were in no way a hard nerf on your ability to inflict so called catastrophe on the enemy creatures en mass whether used on a pack of mooks or a boss. What they were suggesting was a rework to encourage a more tactical choice of the ability since at current it basically just creates a boring environment to play in. Watching some random player who would rather just hit 4 every 3-5 seconds to create big flashes and leave the carrier to collect the loot is just too commonplace to make it worth suffering through. Really I think he's being 'too' reasonable with his suggestion since it basically leaves Molecular Prime in a position to be abused, my preference would've been that you can't collect energy at all during that cooldown.

[ThePresident777]

Theres a thousand arguments that could be made about the value of a random opinion on the forums and what is 'acceptable' but lets focus on the main post.

 

The suggestions that the original made were in no way a hard nerf on your ability to inflict so called catastrophe on the enemy creatures en mass whether used on a pack of mooks or a boss. What they were suggesting was a rework to encourage a more tactical choice of the ability since at current it basically just creates a boring environment to play in. Watching some random player who would rather just hit 4 every 3-5 seconds to create big flashes and leave the carrier to collect the loot is just too commonplace to make it worth suffering through. Really I think he's being 'too' reasonable with his suggestion since it basically leaves Molecular Prime in a position to be abused, my preference would've been that you can't collect energy at all during that cooldown.

 

Nova did not create the boring environment to play in.  The environment we are playing in is a lot older than Nova.  It's as old as the game itself, as well as all the complaints against Nova.  Before Nova, people were complaining about other Warframe abilities.  And, people still complain about other Warframe abilities.  So, Nova is not the problem.  The problem is the AI.  It's dumb.  It does not defend itself in a significant way until at higher levels it can one shot.  What I am proposing is that the enemy be able to defend itself even when they are dieing in droves.  Cannon fodder is not precious.

[UmbraLotus]

This is a stupid idea. Nova doesn't need changed, EVERYTHING else is already being nerfed. I can't even play T3's anymore because all my weapons are nerfed to all hell and do next to no damage. Even though they're forma'd and level 30 and potatoed and modded into oblivion. Nova's Molecular Prime doesn't even WORK for me very well on T3. And yes my Nova has max focus and all. Getting really tired of everything being nerfed.

[Erondight]

Nova did not create the boring environment to play in.  The environment we are playing in is a lot older than Nova.  It's as old as the game itself, as well as all the complaints against Nova.  Before Nova, people were complaining about other Warframe abilities.  And, people still complain about other Warframe abilities.  So, Nova is not the problem.  The problem is the AI.  It's dumb.  It does not defend itself in a significant way until at higher levels it can one shot.  What I am proposing is that the enemy be able to defend itself even when they are dieing in droves.  Cannon fodder is not precious.

 

AI is a work in progress, its 'always' a work in progress that requires coding put into place to take a huge variety of circumstances into account. There literally no possible way for DE to account for every possible situation in a market that requires they provide new toys and powers on a weekly basis to satiate a content hungry player base. To complicate issues even further is new game modes being put into place annually to keep content fresh and the game somewhat interesting.

 

And yes thats the difference in our perspectives, there might have always been complaints but the game is in no way boring to play. Nova was an issue on release that has continued to 'be' an issue because she creates an environment where nothing happens.

 

Why carry a gun, Nova can just hit ultimate.

 

Why bring the Nyx with an upgraded Chaos, Nova can just hit MP

 

Why bother to leave the starting cubby hole, Nova can handle it as she has power

 

Honest I love the Nova powerset, but MP need a rework to discourage the thing from being spammed.

[Cwierz]

Getting really tired of everything being nerfed.

You do realize in general what you are describing isn't nerfing. It is one of two things

 

a- Infinitely scaling enemies (which shouldn't be the endgame, and no claims of balance should be made about)

or

b- Powercreep resulting from buffs leaving older content behind

 

In general, this game has more buffs then nerfs if you pay attention. Things are not getting nerfed, enemies are catching up.

 

QQ moar.

[ThePresident777]

AI is a work in progress, its 'always' a work in progress that requires coding put into place to take a huge variety of circumstances into account. There literally no possible way for DE to account for every possible situation in a market that requires they provide new toys and powers on a weekly basis to satiate a content hungry player base. To complicate issues even further is new game modes being put into place annually to keep content fresh and the game somewhat interesting.

 

And yes thats the difference in our perspectives, there might have always been complaints but the game is in no way boring to play. Nova was an issue on release that has continued to 'be' an issue because she creates an environment where nothing happens.

 

Why carry a gun, Nova can just hit ultimate.

 

Why bring the Nyx with an upgraded Chaos, Nova can just hit MP

 

Why bother to leave the starting cubby hole, Nova can handle it as she has power

 

Honest I love the Nova powerset, but MP need a rework to discourage the thing from being spammed.

 

No, I don't accept your opinion on the AI.  AI is crucial.  Terrible AI is an industry standard.  DE is really missing an opportunity to pull ahead of a crowded field.  And, they haven't done squat with the AI.  Piling on more systems(focus, badlands, Interception, etc.) on top of dead AI is like building on quicksand.

 

Nyx has the same problem with any nuker, and so does Loki.  But, they are not useless.  They scale into higher level better than the nukers.  You have to allow room for unconventional abilities even if they get out shined in some situations.  The players have the ability to choose the conditions were they do shine, even if those situations are not the average case.  If everything is expected to shine equally in all circumstances then interesting niches are lost.  You can't expect spectacular results if you insist on average.

[Erondight]

No, I don't accept your opinion on the AI.  AI is crucial.  Terrible AI is an industry standard.  DE is really missing an opportunity to pull ahead of a crowded field.  And, they haven't done squat with the AI.  Piling on more systems(focus, badlands, Interception, etc.) on top of dead AI is like building on quicksand.

 

Nyx has the same problem with any nuker, and so does Loki.  But, they are not useless.  They scale into higher level better than the nukers.  You have to allow room for unconventional abilities even if they get out shined in some situations.  The players have the ability to choose the conditions were they do shine, even if those situations are not the average case.  If everything is expected to shine equally in all circumstances then interesting niches are lost.  You can't expect spectacular results if you insist on average.

 

Yet its an industry standard because time is the most crucial factor in a game based on the Free-to-Pay model. In a company the size of DE rebuilding the AI to react inteligently would be recreating backend systems I don't even know if there Evolution Engine can handle considering the current limitations of hardware. The best they'd be likely able to create are gimicks that counter some of the more common tricks pulled like random immunities to damage types and shields that explode if struck by a melee weapon.

 

And no its obvious that other frames aren't useless but Nova's ultimate creates circumstances where they might as well be without any trade offs or reasons to consider other options. Ignoring for the moment that 'high level' scaling is basically a practice in egocentric masturbation, there is just no reason to bring any other caster type frame in preference of Nova because her potential is so much higher in practice. While some might say a rework on every single other caster frame would be the better option it then leads to complications with power creep and the need to rebalance enemy scaling to still be slightly relevent with the new super frames, by the old standard. And even if they accomplish 'that' and rebuild the game scaling for some metaphorical Challenge 2.0 it leads to complaints that all the warframes are useless because enemies are suddenly walking bullet sponges.

[ThePresident777]

Yet its an industry standard because time is the most crucial factor in a game based on the Free-to-Pay model. In a company the size of DE rebuilding the AI to react inteligently would be recreating backend systems I don't even know if there Evolution Engine can handle considering the current limitations of hardware. The best they'd be likely able to create are gimicks that counter some of the more common tricks pulled like random immunities to damage types and shields that explode if struck by a melee weapon.

 

And no its obvious that other frames aren't useless but Nova's ultimate creates circumstances where they might as well be without any trade offs or reasons to consider other options. Ignoring for the moment that 'high level' scaling is basically a practice in egocentric masturbation, there is just no reason to bring any other caster type frame in preference of Nova because her potential is so much higher in practice. While some might say a rework on every single other caster frame would be the better option it then leads to complications with power creep and the need to rebalance enemy scaling to still be slightly relevent with the new super frames, by the old standard. And even if they accomplish 'that' and rebuild the game scaling for some metaphorical Challenge 2.0 it leads to complaints that all the warframes are useless because enemies are suddenly walking bullet sponges.

 

The difficulty of making AI does not reduce the importance of AI.

 

The problem is not Mprime.  The problem is the borked spawn patterns(and the lack of counter measures).  Lately, the enemy has been straggling to the objective.  New spawns are supposed to show up to replace the dead ones.  When they show up on time, everybody has plenty to destroy. 

 

If you are arguing for balance then you can't claim that it is possible to achieve it by not touching every side of the field of options because it all interacts.  You can't just tweak a little here and there on one side and expect to be done.  Then there is the issue of new content.  If the new content is good then you just have to make room for it even if you have to make many adjustments across the field of options.  The work has to get done or no profit is made.

Edited February 10, 2014 by ThePresident777