The Amount Of Noobness Is Too High

[Janzer]

I had a frustrating Infested Mobile Def on Mars. A Rank 1 Excal with Sobek and Dual Heat stands away safely while I, a Rhino with a Latron Prime rank15 trying to rank it up, was forced to use Stomp in order to clear off the infested since they were swarming too much.

 

Did he try to attack? OH yes... YES... sure... Jump attack with Dual Heat DOES HELP A LOT!

Jump attack with Dual Heat Swords for infested on Mars...level range 9-15....that's actually a legitimate attack versus something like swiping at them. The heat attack on ground slam procs every single time, and has a high area of effect, and also causes a temporary stun. Infested are weak to fire as well, so rather than trying to engage them with pistols or rifles at his level, the DHS are actually pretty useful for low rank players considering they're MR0.

 

Now the real problem is not the attack or weapon he used, it would have been maybe lack of survivability skill. Rank 1 doesn't mean Warframe Level 1. I'm curious to how he dragged you down. I'm not saying he didn't, or that he should have been there, but I'm just wondering. I also don't understand what you mean by your having a Latron Prime Rank 15...what rank was your Rhino?

 

I find it annoying as well when low leveler's join a mission they can't possibly survive in, but that gives me two options, and they aren't that hard of choices to make.

 

1. Leave them and let them die. If a low level noober joins that has no intention of staying out of harm's way and constantly dies, I let them just learn that hard lesson of not showing up in places you can't handle.

 

2. Challenge myself to make sure every Frame gets out! Simply put, a low level tenno shows up and tries their best to make it through, I'll assist them in getting to the end, or in achieving the directive myself while they stay hidden lol.

 

At the end of the day, in random groups (which I love playing in and play in 99.99% of the time), you have to take things lightly or at least with the knowledge that yes....you are asking for the potential of insanity to ensue :D

 

Take it easy out there Tenno :D

[Ezren]

About 50% of all people are below average intelligence.

 

Your entire opinion was invalidated when you triumphantly discovered the definition of "average".

[Els236]

XP locking planets sounds good on the surface but isn't all that good underneath.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only rank 11 rocking around on Mercury for an easy ferrite farm, or an easy exp farm for an unranked weapon or frame.

 

Therein lies another problem. The difference between a nooby player and nooby equipment. You can have a rank 0 with a rank 30 excal / mag / loki, rank 30 lato and a rank 30 braton and you can also get rank 10's with an unranked frame, rifle, pistol and melee.

 

The other day I was running a rank 2 excal, a rank 10 lato and a rank 15 braton (I was MR 10), and I got saved numerous times by the rank 1 and 2 on my team, who already had a good grasp of the game's mechanics and such-such. 

 

Some people constantly fail the mastery levels too, causing them to be at rank 0/ rank 1, even though their mastery would actually allow them to be 3/4 or even 5. 

 

I just think that all you can do is help out the people that want helping and try and ignore the others.

 

Another point I wish to mention is that, I don't know about NA, but here in Europe it's already hard enough to find a party on some planets (took me like 2 weeks to complete Phobos [luckily I found a couple of guys completing it too => helped each other out]) 

 

If you exp-lock planets, I'd probably never find a party to play with... 

Edited February 17, 2014 by Els236

[Ezren]

You are correct. How people live their lives is none of my business. What you do not understand is that I'm just voicing my opinion.

When somebody says "it's just my opinion", they have hit a brick wall with their argument. Your "opinion" is not beyond reproach, nor is it somehow immune to any commentary. Saying "my opinion" is not throwing up some argument-shield that deflects response, it is what somebody without a logical basis pukes into a conversation.

 

An informed person says their argument is because of X, Y, or Z.

 

An uninformed person says it is their opinion.

 

Grats on choosing your camp. I mean, look at this:

 

Reading so far on the comments, I think it's safe to assume a few things:

 

1. Some people want a matchmaking filter

2. Some actually agree to XP locking

3. There are some helpful oldies that still try to assist lowbies

4. Some people just bash without reading.

 

Which is equivalent to: "A few people agree with me, but others don't. If people don't agree with me, I will imply they haven't read." Which, just off the top of my head, I think you've said, what, four times now? Your response to people disagreeing is largely "you can't read". Logic has long flown out the window.

 

But hey, what's worse? "Bash without reading"? Or you bashing lowbies without making a minimum effort to explain something to them? Valefor was your mission of example: 15-22. Is that your supposed high-level area?

 

And do you know how I know your complaining is just your personal problem? Because a friend and I accidentally dragged two rank 0's from clearing Venus, to the 10-wave defense objective Alert on Eris. My friend, who is rank 2, and two rank 0 Excalibur frames. This is a higher level zone than you complained about, and instead of two rank 2's and a rank 0, I was with two rank 0's and a rank 2.

 

But we cleared it. Why? Because I explained where they should stay and that they should save energy for Radial Blind, explained where to keep a choke point, explained how to keep one mob up so the pod can heal between waves. I knew they didn't know what to do, so I *gasp* explained it to them. With Loki, Rhino, and two Excalibur frames, no easy AoE clear, we muscled through it. Because I didn't just roll my eyes at their rank, we didn't just leave them to their own devices, and we helped them help us.

 

There are a lot of things you can accomplish when you're not so busy acting morally superior to everyone else.

[Ezren]

That shouldn't be the norm.

 

(besides, that means underleveled players should never play maps that are too high level for them, which I agree with, but contradicts your disagreement with the OP)

 

Yeah, that would contradict... if low level players were on the forums complaining that higher levels weren't carrying them, or if 15-20 was in any way "too high" in level for a player to cover early on.

[crwydryny]

 

2. Challenge myself to make sure every Frame gets out! Simply put, a low level tenno shows up and tries their best to make it through, I'll assist them in getting to the end, or in achieving the directive myself while they stay hidden lol.

 

At the end of the day, in random groups (which I love playing in and play in 99.99% of the time), you have to take things lightly or at least with the knowledge that yes....you are asking for the potential of insanity to ensue :D

 

Take it easy out there Tenno :D

 

this is my usual tactic (what can I say I'm a honour before reason kind of guy) a lot of the time I'll cover the low level players as they run towards the exit taking the brunt of the enemy. if however I happen to be the low level player in a match I'll make sure not to do anything that endangers the rest of my team by holding back and sniping the enemy and reviving fallen comrades or covering those doing the reviving the best I can.

 

 

and funny thing is when I posted previously in this topic I got paired up with a newbie ine one of the mid level missions equipped with an excalibur, mk1 braton and a lato, I let him take the data modul while I did my best to cover him and with one minor exception when he ran into an ambush and got KO'd resulting in me almost getting killed saving him he did pretty well for himself holding back while I (and later another player) cleared out any threats

[Liminal]

Yeah, that would contradict... if low level players were on the forums complaining that higher levels weren't carrying them, or if 15-20 was in any way "too high" in level for a player to cover early on.

A new player almost can't collaborate in a lv15 mission. Whatever weapons he/she's using don't deal enough damage, and the frame surely lacks the mods required to make up for it with consistent CC.

Having to be prepared to carry people that can't pull their own weight shouldn't be standard procedure.

 

Mind you I'm not supporting some sort of "mastery apartheid" but simple non-draconian matchmaking that groups players with similar loadouts (power wise). If a dude with a rank 12 Excal and an Mk1 wants to play Xini, let him, but group him with other guys with similarly low-rank equipment.

[Ezren]

A new player almost can't collaborate in a lv15 mission. Whatever weapons he/she's using don't deal enough damage, and the frame surely lacks the mods required to make up for it with consistent CC.

Having to be prepared to carry people that can't pull their own weight shouldn't be standard procedure.

 

Mind you I'm not supporting some sort of "mastery apartheid" but simple non-draconian matchmaking that groups players with similar loadouts (power wise). If a dude with a rank 12 Excal and an Mk1 wants to play Xini, let him, but group him with other guys with similarly low-rank equipment.

 

And what guarantees do you have, going into anything, that people can carry their weight? Rank 14s who continually kill themselves with Penta is just one fine example I ran into only today. Players of all levels and gear are useless.

 

Frankly, you should be able to handle anything you take on for a mission. You can take most missions carefully if your team is undergeared. The only missions you can't take slowly are defense missions, and if you can't get past 5 waves of that without a full team, then you have no place trying to farm there in the first place.

 

This thread is primarily about elitism. The original poster has several long tirades about how he "ranked up honestly" and infers that most other people do not. He's so full of himself that this isn't a thread about how people can't contribute to a mission, because they easily can, it's about how they don't meet his "high standard" for player virtue. The implication that other high-ranking players must have all bought affinity boosters clearly marked this as the epicenter for an ego-bomb.

[Rapxtor]

And what guarantees do you have, going into anything, that people can carry their weight? Rank 14s who continually kill themselves with Penta is just one fine example I ran into only today. Players of all levels and gear are useless.

 

Frankly, you should be able to handle anything you take on for a mission. You can take most missions carefully if your team is undergeared. The only missions you can't take slowly are defense missions, and if you can't get past 5 waves of that without a full team, then you have no place trying to farm there in the first place.

 

This thread is primarily about elitism. The original poster has several long tirades about how he "ranked up honestly" and infers that most other people do not. He's so full of himself that this isn't a thread about how people can't contribute to a mission, because they easily can, it's about how they don't meet his "high standard" for player virtue. The implication that other high-ranking players must have all bought affinity boosters clearly marked this as the epicenter for an ego-bomb.

 

I think you said it all, just want to add something about boosters and what people misundertand about them, I have almost all the weapons in the game formed, how do people think I achieved that?

 

Playing online here sometimes I get better XP solo bc nobody stay together and go do their thing like trapping door, runeway behind the enemy to get more kill and leave hostages at their luck in high levels bc its cool to rush to ext and fail the mission and waste everybody time?

 

No, I actually use boosters to relevel my weapons, wich in fact doesnt add nothing to my MR, but its surelly more easy than play online most of the time and a better use of my time.

 

I also dont understand why "Premium" players have any advantage over anybody, nor a free player had more "hard work" than me or anybody to reach anyhere.

[adoomgod]

Your entire opinion was invalidated when you triumphantly discovered the definition of "average".

 

And yet his intended point is still correct. Note that the people who use the Forum are in fact, not the average player. Everyone on the forum has proven that they are able to type... words... and possibly even SENTENCES.

 

Warframe's randoms make me cringe.

[mumuslave]

It is embarrassing that veteran tenno are whining about lower level/beginners.

You should instead guide and help them play instead of complaining. I'm myself only level 8 but my brother was ALWAYS taxi'ing to higer systems or alerts me to get rare mods and potatoes.

Without that you are lost as a beginner because you don't get the mods and stuff you need to level up.

You talk about noobness --> how can you personally have a problem if you have 2-3 lowlevels ingame ?

Can you not do it alone ? Why you dont play in private then ?

What is the problem ?

I don't have a problem with low levels - i revive them , help them when they are in trouble and waypoint the mods for them.

Like you behave --> maybe insulting them on chat --> you will soon be playing all alone !

We need new players - they might like the game and buy your mods and spend money thus helping to expand the game and provide new content.

 

Thats my 50cents - think about it !

[Liminal]

And what guarantees do you have, going into anything, that people can carry their weight? Rank 14s who continually kill themselves with Penta is just one fine example I ran into only today. Players of all levels and gear are useless.

 

Frankly, you should be able to handle anything you take on for a mission. You can take most missions carefully if your team is undergeared. The only missions you can't take slowly are defense missions, and if you can't get past 5 waves of that without a full team, then you have no place trying to farm there in the first place.

 

This thread is primarily about elitism. The original poster has several long tirades about how he "ranked up honestly" and infers that most other people do not. He's so full of himself that this isn't a thread about how people can't contribute to a mission, because they easily can, it's about how they don't meet his "high standard" for player virtue. The implication that other high-ranking players must have all bought affinity boosters clearly marked this as the epicenter for an ego-bomb.

There are no guarantees. I agree, but at least they have the potential to contribute. The player might suck, but he/she isn't getting in a mission they know they have no chance to complete (say, when you don't have enough rifle ammo to kill more than 15 enemies because your gun is extremely underleveled and "undermodded"). It's like you say: "if you can't get past 5 waves of that without a full team, then you have no place trying to farm there in the first place" but it doesn't apply only to defense missions.

 

I'm not arguing about elitism, I often use boosters to "turbo-level" batches of weapons. I'm only arguing about carrying and how it's only cool if the rest of the team agrees. Being carried is fine, there's nothing "morally reprehensible" there. I've helped out every friend I referred, but only because I wanted to.

 

If "ranking up honestly" is really the subject of this thread I completely missed it in the OP, that's why I've ignored it completely in my replies. For the record I think that's nonsense.

 

So in short:

Elitism: no; forcing taxis: no; good matchmaking: yes.

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

It is staggering how many people here forget that they too, began the same. But that is not what is strange here. You guys say, "New players are a liability ", "they prevent me from enjoying the game". How exactly does that happen?? I am almost rank 11 and there isn't a single mission in the game, apart form high level endless deffense that I can't solo, without much trouble too. So how come a rank 14 or even rank 15 players feel that a new player can in any way threaten the mission that you are in. At this stage we should all have weapons and mods capable of obliterating small armies in a few hits, even more so at the planets that most new players hang at. So, again, how is it that you feel unsure of the missions success.

 

You should expect to meet these people when you play online, it's only normal, and if you dislike them so much just play solo or with a clan, problem solved. Carrying newbs through anything other than pluto deffense is trivial at best and a nuisanse at worst. Get you S#&$ together people and stop whining.

[Liminal]

It is staggering how many people here forget that they too, began the same. But that is not what is strange here. You guys say, "New players are a liability ", "they prevent me from enjoying the game". How exactly does that happen?? I am almost rank 11 and there isn't a single mission in the game, apart form high level endless deffense that I can't solo, without much trouble too. So how come a rank 14 or even rank 15 players feel that a new player can in any way threaten the mission that you are in. At this stage we should all have weapons and mods capable of obliterating small armies in a few hits, even more so at the planets that most new players hang at. So, again, how is it that you feel unsure of the missions success.

 

You should expect to meet these people when you play online, it's only normal, and if you dislike them so much just play solo or with a clan, problem solved. Carrying newbs through anything other than pluto deffense is trivial at best and a nuisanse at worst. Get you S#&$ together people and stop whining.

I'm rank 13 and I rarely use my maxed equipment. I'm always leveling stuff up. Right now it's the Grinlok, which I can do fine with, but it can't hold a ODD for long by itself. I can kill my share of enemies but not 2 or 3 people's worth of enemies. Why should someone else decide I have to lose a mission because of their own negligence? If they want a taxi they should at least ask.

When I started playing nobody helped me (I didn't want to be a burden because I put others first, a basic rule in human interaction) and I did fine. There's no need to jump ahead. It took me a year to get to where I am now, and if I can do it anyone can. (Don't read that as elitism, it's just to illustrate the point that the the fact that you can get carried doesn't make normal progression inviable).

[lukshu]

I don't think Exp-Locks help anybody not veterans and not newbies and yes they are bothered by much stronger players in their missions too.

 

I would lov the option to choose between three modes

 

1) Low (only possible till a certain MR or under a certain Conclave rating Idk what would be fairest :/)

2) free (no restricktions, default mode, like now)

3) high (like Low only for highly equipped players)

 

I'm not sure how you could determain who should be able to go in which mode, as a low MR player might just like to play few frames and weapons but those might be good an a high MR player might play with new unranked equip or frame.

 

Most of the time I don't mind what level players have and its nice to help newer players, but high and low players alike might want to try the game with similarly equipped players in certain missions.

[Dude_on_the_Moon]

Strongly agreed.

agree/ noobies everywhere

[Zoso03]

I came here to post this exact thing. I don't mind playing with other people, I'm good but not good enough to solo a good number of maps so I play online in hopes of someone in my position will join and we can help each other (not taxi the other), but recently as pointed out I'm seeing level 0-1 players show up with the most basic items with little to no stat boosts.

 

I would like to see Mercury, Venus and Earth be the only planets level 0-2 can play on unless invited into missions. Saturn, Jupiter and Mars unlocked for 3-5 and everything unlocked from 5 and up, also allow players to xp lock the mission they are in depending on the mission. Playing in a clan, helping others level up and be helped myself I find that usually around rank 4-5 is when players can start to hold their own, sure they got a long way to being a major influance on the outer rim of planets but they do still offer some help.

 

Right now my way of dealing with them is turn down my "skill" or just run ahead by passing everything for a few rooms. If they can deal with it then great I will help taxi you through the mission but if you die I will let you be and move on by myself. So far this seems to be working for me.

 

With all that said, If i were to join a mission on mercury, venus or earth, I would expect to run into low level players and will taxi them in survival or defense as long as they are not a burden to me such as trying to lone wolf areas or screw up the pods several times, I will warn them, I will tell them what to do but if they continue to do this crap I will let them die and do nothing about it even at time be right near them to proove the point. But if you are decent and really trying I will jump through hoops to revive you, heck I've even helped a few new people hit 30 and 35 e-gate missions by holding out on my own because they really tried and played properly most importantly they took the hints and advice i was giving to them
 

Also whom ever said to Lock out some lower planets for high level people, that is just a bad Idea. There are plenty of times I run survival or other missions on those planets because my frame or weapons are extremely low level and any other place would just chew me up and spit me out.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Zoso03

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

I'm rank 13 and I rarely use my maxed equipment. I'm always leveling stuff up. Right now it's the Grinlok, which I can do fine with, but it can't hold a ODD for long by itself. I can kill my share of enemies but not 2 or 3 people's worth of enemies. Why should someone else decide I have to lose a mission because of their own negligence? If they want a taxi they should at least ask.

When I started playing nobody helped me (I didn't want to be a burden because I put others first, a basic rule in human interaction) and I did fine. There's no need to jump ahead. It took me a year to get to where I am now, and if I can do it anyone can. (Don't read that as elitism, it's just to illustrate the point that the the fact that you can get carried doesn't make normal progression inviable).

First of all, always carry at least one good weapon. Doesn't have to be rank 30 with all the bells and whistles but prepare accordingly. Should I really be telling you this. Also as i said the planets you usually meet new players are realtively low rank. i don't think any amount of sub 20-25 level enemies should really be an issue to you.

 

I've met many quite capable low rank players and many more who dont do anything, even though I always refrain myself from killing too many enemies. the latter I just leave to die, as you said. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pick a fight, i undestand from where you are coming, but I meet with the same problems and I can easily deal with them without popping an artery. If I can, so can you and any other player at my or higher rank. In other words make your life easy and stop paying too much attention to these people. If your team mates are incapable of playing just kill everything and let them complain how inconsiderate high level players are. Its way better than throwing a tantrum.

[Liminal]

First of all, always carry at least one good weapon. Doesn't have to be rank 30 with all the bells and whistles but prepare accordingly. Should I really be telling you this. Also as i said the planets you usually meet new players are realtively low rank. i don't think any amount of sub 20-25 level enemies should really be an issue to you.

 

I've met many quite capable low rank players and many more who dont do anything, even though I always refrain myself from killing too many enemies. the latter I just leave to die, as you said. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pick a fight, i undestand from where you are coming, but I meet with the same problems and I can easily deal with them without popping an artery. If I can, so can you and any other player at my or higher rank. In other words make your life easy and stop paying too much attention to these people. If your team mates are incapable of playing just kill everything and let them complain how inconsiderate high level players are. Its way better than throwing a tantrum.

But what if I don't want to carry one good weapon (I don't mean taking 2 unranked ones, just mid rank, properly modded guns). Yes, I have to take a good one, but I shouldn't need to just because someone else doesn't have one. That's why I say matchmaking should take care of it. Funny thing is I barely even play with pugs.

No tantrums over here!

Edited February 18, 2014 by The_Doc

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

But what if I don't want to carry one good weapon (I don't mean taking 2 unranked ones, just mid rank, properly modded guns). Yes, I have to take a good one, but I shouldn't need to just because someone else doesn't have one. That's why I say matchmaking should take care of it. Funny thing is I barely even play with pugs.

No tantrums over here!

So basically you are saying that match maker should make it so that you can be carried by other players whenever you feel like not being properly prepared... And of course you focus on the least important part of my answer.

 

I'd have to say that I agree with the points a lot you make about improving the match maker and what not but the way you argue makes me see a lot of little children crying that their lollypop got stolen. Buy a new one and move on.

[Liminal]

So basically you are saying that match maker should make it so that you can be carried by other players whenever you feel like not being properly prepared... 

No, I'm saying I should be able to take care of my own share of enemies, but not other player's.

 

 And of course you focus on the least important part of my answer.

Then what was the most important part?

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

No, I'm saying I should be able to take care of my own share of enemies, but not other player's.

 

Then what was the most important part?

Just play the game and enjoy it. New players are way too irrelevant for you to have fun. Or at least they should be. If you can't do that whats the guarantee that it will become better when DE introduces a new matchmaker. Bad players will always exist and there isn't a rats &#! you can do about it. The way I see it, you are just looking to get annoyed  by people instead of enjoying the game( not trying to argue with people, rather paying too much attention to other people's flaws) .

 

I hope I am wrong but then again I don't really care. Oh and one last thing, having to do everything by myself sometimes introduces a nice little change of pace -  a challenge so to speak, it improves  me as a player. But I guess you like playing by the rules that don't exist such as everyone should be able to pull their own weight. A nice concept to abide to...in a perfect world that is. But this isn't one so adapt. make your own fun if you will. I don't know what games you've played, maybe you have more experience in MMO games than I do but from all the online gmaes I've had the misfortune to try, warframe's community is one of the best, mostly because you are not at all dependant on other people's skills and abilities. Especially at your rank. I hope you understand what I am saying. 

Edited February 18, 2014 by Arbiter_of_Soul

[Liminal]

But I guess you like playing by the rules that don't exist such as everyone should be able to pull their own weight. A nice concept to abide to...in a perfect world that is. But this isn't one so adapt. make your own fun if you will. I don't know what games you've played, maybe you have more experience in MMO games than I do but from all the online gmaes I've had the misfortune to try, warframe's community is one of the best, mostly because you are not at all dependant on other people's skills and abilities. Especially at your rank. I hope you understand what I am saying. 

Yes, I like rules, they are good for equality. And no, the system isn't perfect and it probably will never be, but that doesn't mean they should give up and stop trying to improve it. That's why suggestions always have to be aimed as high as possible. Underachieving leads to mediocrity.

 

I'm not saying anyone should stop playing because sometimes rank0 guys join their mobile defenses, just that the game should encourage players to take things at their own pace, and never force anyone to play for someone else unless they want to. It's pretty simple actually, and if you enjoy carrying people that's great and you should still be able to do that.

 

On the subject of depending on someone else's skills and equipment... not as much as other games, but some people can still be liabilities on certain missions.

 

(And I never said the WF community was bad. I played LoL and Dota2, I know bad communities!)

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

(And I never said the WF community was bad. I played LoL and Dota2, I know bad communities!)

Haven't played those two but did play World of tanks for quite a while. Bad players made me quit the game as you were hugely dependant on the performance of others.

 

Anyways, of course there should be suggestions, thats why I said I agree to a lot of ideas. What made me comment in the first place was, that the discussion very quickly degenerated into new player bashing( my post wasn't originally aimed at anyone in particular).

 

About rules bringing equality... lets not get there. You must be an idealist if you believe rules bring equality, out of closed systems where everyone is forced to abide by them. As long as some human makes the rules there is no equality...unfortunately.And everyone being capable of supporting themselves is an assumtion, not a rule. We can't expect other people to follow our ideals of how something should be done. But yeah, thats why you mentioned people not being forced to play with others they don't want to.

 

  I wonder though, people on the forums are very very active with their suggestions, yet DE doesn't always try to fix obvious problems that have been well known for quite a while.

[Liminal]

About rules bringing equality... lets not get there. 

I meant in the game, of course, the real world isn't that fair :P