What I Want With New Game Modes Aka I Want An Adrenaline Rush

[Ourobor]

I'm very quickly approaching boredom in warframe. Now that I have all this awesome gear, what do I do now? I don't want to get more gear. I like the gear I have. I want to use it for something. I don't mean spending hours on survival. That's repetition. I don't mean killing tougher enemies. Those just require more clicks.

I want more challenging mission types, not tougher enemies. Games like League of Legends and Dota are so entertaining because of the adrenaline rush they cause. You're forced onto a knifes edge between failure and success and it makes it exciting. My roommate plays WoW and every time I hear him explain a raid, it's clear that a single mistake by any of the group could cause the entire raid to fail. That's what we need to keep it entertaining. It's not the enemies that are difficult per se, but the mission itself. To me, interception should have at least twice the number of towers it has now, without the instant claiming terminals. That way, you have to recover towers constantly instead of each member of the cell just standing on one tower and killing anything that walks towards the terminals.

 

To put it another way, enemies should not be the primary obstacle of a mission. The reason I like survival the most of all of the game types is because there's stress trying to keep life support up(if you don't have a nekros >.>). I should wade through enemies as I progress though the mission, but I shouldn't be held back by them. Killing enemies is fun, even more so when they die quickly. I like apollo because I can kill all the grineer there easily, but I want more of a challenge in the mission itself so that I can kill a ton, while still being under stress.

This is not to say I don't think there should be tough enemies. If anything I'd want normal units to be weaker and heavies to be much, much stronger, but spawn more infrequently. Heavies should be minibosses, with their own mechanics to defeat. They should be something challenging.

Just my thoughts on the whole endgame kind of thing. Thoughts?

[Spriggs]

I want more challenging mission types, not tougher enemies. Games like League of Legends and Dota are so entertaining because of the adrenaline rush they cause. You're forced onto a knifes edge between failure and success and it makes it exciting. My roommate plays WoW and every time I hear him explain a raid, it's clear that a single mistake by any of the group could cause the entire raid to fail. That's what we need to keep it entertaining. It's not the enemies that are difficult per se, but the mission itself. To me, interception should have at least twice the number of towers it has now, without the instant claiming terminals. That way, you have to recover towers constantly instead of each member of the cell just standing on one tower and killing anything that walks towards the terminals.

 

To put it another way, enemies should not be the primary obstacle of a mission. The reason I like survival the most of all of the game types is because there's stress trying to keep life support up(if you don't have a nekros >.>). I should wade through enemies as I progress though the mission, but I shouldn't be held back by them. Killing enemies is fun, even more so when they die quickly. I like apollo because I can kill all the grineer there easily, but I want more of a challenge in the mission itself so that I can kill a ton, while still being under stress.

This is not to say I don't think there should be tough enemies. If anything I'd want normal units to be weaker and heavies to be much, much stronger, but spawn more infrequently. Heavies should be minibosses, with their own mechanics to defeat. They should be something challenging.

Just my thoughts on the whole endgame kind of thing. Thoughts?

In my opinion, you seem to be confusing challenging with punishing. Making heavy units mini bosses with their own mechanics (like the Ruk update) would be challenging. Making a mission success or fail based on a single misstep, is punishing.

Challenging and punishing are not the same thing, and introducing aspects into the game to make them punishing is not a good way to go. I would like to note, however, that is they ever introduce a difficulty setting to the game, punishing game-play would possible be a good setting aspect for those that want it. Like a Nightmare setting (Kinda terrified of the prospect of a Nightmare mode node or alert on a Nightmare difficulty setting).

This is where it gets shaky, because challenging and punishing can be a matter of perspective, to which I must ask you to clarify what exactly it is you're looking for? You've stated a few general ideas, but they're more or less vague.

I will, however, start by disagreeing with your proposed changes to the Interception game type. Interception is a game of Domination, or King of the Hill, where a team gains points over time for controlling points. I would argue that, instead of having more points to control, spawn less light units and spawn more heavy units instead. Maybe this would be a good place to have Project Tethra engage, and perhaps even come out with a Corpus equivalent.

Going off of Unreal Tournament, a good game type addition could be assault. The basis of assault is to wage an attack on a location, achieving objectives in order, within a time frame, to accomplish the overall goal. The normal game would have you attacking whatever faction holds the node, but invasions could have you help defend the node from the invading forces; preventing the invaders from achieving all of the objectives until the allotted time is up.

The next would probably be a suggested change to an existing game type: Mobile Defense. It would be nice if Mobile Defense were actually mobile; the cryopod is on a tram, not like Kappa, but actually defending the pod till it reaches it's destination. This could have drop ships come in to drop off enemies, or even open fire themselves; if not have heavy units firing from the cargo bay while light units drop onto the tram. Heck, they could also throw the Raptor at you. Might not even be a direct assault either. You could have some enemies drop off towards the from of the tram in an attempt to hijack it.

There could be an alternative to survival, or instead, a chance that a survival mission could take a turn for the worst: an experimental bio-weapon breaks loose and starts chasing you down. It's too tough to kills, but it can be slowed down, and you have to slow it down how ever possible lest it catch up. This could potentially be punishing, as a player usually spawns where they last died, it would effectively not be possible when this happens (coding would have to disable revives if, and only if, this event is happening). This is punishing, perhaps not to the group, but any players unable to make it away. As such, this should be considered heavily and suggestions for alternative ways this could be handled are welcome. The original idea for this is not my own, but started here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39830-there-is-a-massive-movement-ahead-run-tenno-escape-missions/

Also, a Tenno Kart game type would be awesome. Just saying.

[AnnoyingCat]

pvp

[Ourobor]

In my opinion, you seem to be confusing challenging with punishing. Making heavy units mini bosses with their own mechanics (like the Ruk update) would be challenging. Making a mission success or fail based on a single misstep, is punishing.

Challenging and punishing are not the same thing, and introducing aspects into the game to make them punishing is not a good way to go. I would like to note, however, that is they ever introduce a difficulty setting to the game, punishing game-play would possible be a good setting aspect for those that want it. Like a Nightmare setting (Kinda terrified of the prospect of a Nightmare mode node or alert on a Nightmare difficulty setting).

This is where it gets shaky, because challenging and punishing can be a matter of perspective, to which I must ask you to clarify what exactly it is you're looking for? You've stated a few general ideas, but they're more or less vague.

I will, however, start by disagreeing with your proposed changes to the Interception game type. Interception is a game of Domination, or King of the Hill, where a team gains points over time for controlling points. I would argue that, instead of having more points to control, spawn less light units and spawn more heavy units instead. Maybe this would be a good place to have Project Tethra engage, and perhaps even come out with a Corpus equivalent.

Going off of Unreal Tournament, a good game type addition could be assault. The basis of assault is to wage an attack on a location, achieving objectives in order, within a time frame, to accomplish the overall goal. The normal game would have you attacking whatever faction holds the node, but invasions could have you help defend the node from the invading forces; preventing the invaders from achieving all of the objectives until the allotted time is up.

The next would probably be a suggested change to an existing game type: Mobile Defense. It would be nice if Mobile Defense were actually mobile; the cryopod is on a tram, not like Kappa, but actually defending the pod till it reaches it's destination. This could have drop ships come in to drop off enemies, or even open fire themselves; if not have heavy units firing from the cargo bay while light units drop onto the tram. Heck, they could also throw the Raptor at you. Might not even be a direct assault either. You could have some enemies drop off towards the from of the tram in an attempt to hijack it.

There could be an alternative to survival, or instead, a chance that a survival mission could take a turn for the worst: an experimental bio-weapon breaks loose and starts chasing you down. It's too tough to kills, but it can be slowed down, and you have to slow it down how ever possible lest it catch up. This could potentially be punishing, as a player usually spawns where they last died, it would effectively not be possible when this happens (coding would have to disable revives if, and only if, this event is happening). This is punishing, perhaps not to the group, but any players unable to make it away. As such, this should be considered heavily and suggestions for alternative ways this could be handled are welcome. The original idea for this is not my own, but started here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39830-there-is-a-massive-movement-ahead-run-tenno-escape-missions/

Also, a Tenno Kart game type would be awesome. Just saying.

Fair enough. Punishing vs Difficult is a hard line to walk. I suppose it could also be said that all the games I mentioned allowed for recovery if you did make a mistake. I want a mission to be tense, and I want to be under pressure but it's hard to determine what to do in that regard. Bosses seem to be the easiest to describe, but as such, the least interesting. More Zelda, less walking sacks of hitpoints. And DE is doing that anyway.

I want more towers because I'm tired of sitting on a tower and just shooting creeps. I want to move, to feel pressured to actually capture towers in time. I don't like how every game I've played of interception is just won with maybe 10% opposition. If there's no pressure to preform well, all I'm doing in missions is killing creeps, and that gets old.

At the same time, your point about punishing vs difficulty is very helpful. Many game modes in warframe right now will not do will with a chance of failure because of the investment of time required. Failing survival at the last second and gaining nothing for all the time you have committed is the worst and usually makes me stop playing for a while. Defense is interesting in how it lets you keep your previous pickups and such and only lose the bonus xp. Perhaps something could be used from that. Instead of failing the entire mission, you can fail some subobjective, which grants bonuses upon mission completion. Ex: keep life support above 50% the entire mission to keep some bio samples alive, kill all enemies in a fixed amount of time, complete a wave of defense/a terminal of mobile defense in which the terminal takes no hits, etc.

I like the mobile defense because it offers a unique progression though a level. Instead of just watching enemies run directly for the terminal and get themselves killed, they'd actually have time to group up and become a problem. As you move though rooms, you're presented with challenges that you have to assess and determine the best solution to. Even more like if I can redirect the track before we reach the end for more.

As for the escape mission, yesyesyesyes. I wish that thread was still alive </3 All I can say is that if it happens, the lights need to go out and the only form of illumination is your flashlight.

Thanks for responding

[LeAtlas]

try waiting for 0 oxygen in survival and let the hunger games begin

[Spriggs]

Fair enough. Punishing vs Difficult is a hard line to walk. I suppose it could also be said that all the games I mentioned allowed for recovery if you did make a mistake. I want a mission to be tense, and I want to be under pressure but it's hard to determine what to do in that regard. Bosses seem to be the easiest to describe, but as such, the least interesting. More Zelda, less walking sacks of hitpoints. And DE is doing that anyway.

I want more towers because I'm tired of sitting on a tower and just shooting creeps. I want to move, to feel pressured to actually capture towers in time. I don't like how every game I've played of interception is just won with maybe 10% opposition. If there's no pressure to preform well, all I'm doing in missions is killing creeps, and that gets old.

At the same time, your point about punishing vs difficulty is very helpful. Many game modes in warframe right now will not do will with a chance of failure because of the investment of time required. Failing survival at the last second and gaining nothing for all the time you have committed is the worst and usually makes me stop playing for a while. Defense is interesting in how it lets you keep your previous pickups and such and only lose the bonus xp. Perhaps something could be used from that. Instead of failing the entire mission, you can fail some subobjective, which grants bonuses upon mission completion. Ex: keep life support above 50% the entire mission to keep some bio samples alive, kill all enemies in a fixed amount of time, complete a wave of defense/a terminal of mobile defense in which the terminal takes no hits, etc.

I like the mobile defense because it offers a unique progression though a level. Instead of just watching enemies run directly for the terminal and get themselves killed, they'd actually have time to group up and become a problem. As you move though rooms, you're presented with challenges that you have to assess and determine the best solution to. Even more like if I can redirect the track before we reach the end for more.

As for the escape mission, yesyesyesyes. I wish that thread was still alive </3 All I can say is that if it happens, the lights need to go out and the only form of illumination is your flashlight.

Thanks for responding

No problem! Your thread caught my attention and I had a few ideas.

On that note, I remembered something that some friends and I were discussing a while back, not sure if anyone else in the forums had this idea yet so let me know if so. Anyway, the idea cropped up after visiting Phobos (and now that I think of it, it could have been a thread =/), but I noticed the map has these artillery cannons constantly firing, but you can't see what they're targeting.

So why not introduce a colossal Infested enemy for an Infested Defense, except instead of defending an artifact, you're trying to get the base's defenses up and running again to fight off the monstrosity. We're talking Kaiju colossal; too big for the Tenno to take care of on their own, possibly composed of millions of infested.

This Defense wouldn't be an endless defense however (or maybe it could), it would be a series of sub-objectives that need to be completed within a time frame. Such as restarting the base's power generators, getting the artillery back online, and re-calibrating their targeting (possibly even readjusting the coordinates by over-riding the main terminal). All the while, the base is being attacked by waves of Infested. Endless defense could involve defending against multiple Kaiju Infested, some of which could have abilities they can use to disable the base's defenses (likewise with the bases having capabilities of defending against them).

If someone could check to see if this is already in a thread, I would appreciate it. Got a nagging feeling it is the case.

Another thought was an AI overhaul for the Stalker. Instead of making him one-hit-kill and Immune-to-crowd-control-BS, he should be playing by the same rules as the players; mods, forma, potatoes, auras and he should have powers that are unique to him (and only four); one of which could be a debuff remover. This would also need Stealth 2.0 to be implemented, and the AI would need to be unique to him. Think of the Stalker, following his namesake instead of popping up in the middle of your group for an honorable battle. He stalks you, taking his time to line up the best possible shot, or the best opportunity.

To make things even more challenging, you only have the flickering lights to warn you he's coming, maybe even a brief "Something's wrong..." from the Lotus. To make this work though, the Stalker would need to hunt the entire group, instead of leaving after the target has been dealt with. This would give the offending player, and the group, a chance to reorganize and go on the defensive or offensive; maybe even play at the stealth game too.

Perhaps on ship or building levels, when the Stalker appears on the map, the power could shut off with only emergency power.

In my opinion, while the Stalker should be something to fear, he shouldn't be something cheap, and an AI overhaul like I suggested could be a good start for making him a legitimate threat instead of a forced one.