On Multishot Reducing The Grenades/castanas Out...

[Ace4225]

call it broken if you will, but...

I don't like the way multishot on Penta and Castanas further limits the number of shots you can have out... especially with the Castanas (max Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent means you can only fire 2 before detonating.)

Here's my reasoning:

after I put multishot on the Castanas, I thought they'd get better. Instead, I find it much harder to kill groups of enemies, especially if I randomly miss (they do that often). I could more easily take my Dual Cestra or some other normal akimbo pistols, or even the Kunai and kill things much more quickly with the same efficiency.

(I'm just going to pretend the bug where the Castanas randomly won't fire even if there are none out doesn't exist.)

On every other weapon (and this is especially noticeable on less accurate weapons that have distinct tracers) Multishot adds more bang for your buck, increasing the shots you fire without increasing ammo consumption.

Penta limits you to 5 nades out. Castanas limit you at 6. That's fine, but the damage increase provided with multishot is necessary at higher levels, and having multishot count for duplicate nades/knives is frustrating.

It's less frustrating on the Penta since it already has a slow fire rate and large blast radius, but it's really frustrating on the Castanas.

I would normally always consider multishot a good thing, but perhaps not in this case.

(sorry for the rant-ish sounding post. This is a minor annoyance; I love the Castanas, I just feel like they're not that usable at the moment unless you don't take multishot.)

Edited February 24, 2014 by Ace4225

[Alighierian]

you're mistaken. you can have the same (and for the penta even 1 extra) grenade / dart out.

you simply don't see both of them because they fly and land exactly the same. equip heavy cal on the penta, and then watch how many grenades you get. that's right. SIX. that's 1 more than the limit of 5.

 

 

and if you want to lay elaborate minefields it might be more useful to go without, but at the end of the day, multishot is a good mod on ALL weapons

Edited February 24, 2014 by Alighierian

[Ace4225]

 

-snip-

...you mistake my meaning. I know multishot adds more knives/nades to each shot and that's why it decreases the number of shots you can fire.

 

That's what I don't like about it; I wish multishot would do its thing while still letting me fire five/six shots, because it doesn't have that effect on any other weapon.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Ace4225

[MoyuTheTrinity]

 

 

 

...you mistake my meaning. I know multishot adds more knives/nades to each shot and that's why it decreases the number of shots you can fire.

 

That's what I don't like about it; I wish multishot would do its thing while still letting me fire five/six shots, because it doesn't have that effect on any other weapon.

 

I like it this way its opptional it isnt free damage

would be nice if multyshot used up extra ammo in reserve that way the 100% free damage would be more deserving XD

[-AR.D2]

 

 

 

 I wish multishot would do its thing while still letting me fire five/six shots, because it doesn't have that effect on any other weapon.

 

 

I think it's fine the way it is. This allows people greater freedom in modding castanas instead of same old reinforcement of "you MUST have lethal torrent and barrel diffusion not matter what" mentality.

 

Instead of two slots effectively being lost to "required" multishot mods, you can simply add in things like slip magazine for an extra shot per magazine, faster reload mods, or even more elemental damage.

 

I mean really, this is to our benefit.

[Rakosta_Kai]

My personal thinking is that these weapons are actually balanced for the content whereas most of them aren't. Allowing them the full benefit of multi-shot would OP them.

 

In truth, I'd like to see all the weapons balanced to not need it at all. It would open the door for much more diverse builds. 

[Liminal]

I think it's fine the way it is. This allows people greater freedom in modding castanas instead of same old reinforcement of "you MUST have lethal torrent and barrel diffusion not matter what" mentality.

 

Instead of two slots effectively being lost to "required" multishot mods, you can simply add in things like slip magazine for an extra shot per magazine, faster reload mods, or even more elemental damage.

 

I mean really, this is to our benefit.

Yup. I'm one of the people that smiles when they see a weapon that doesn't need multishot nor physical damage mods.

I may even try to max reload speed and rof...

[faustias]

hmmm... I had the same thought about Lethal Torrent and rapidfire akimbos... particularly Afuris, Akstiletto and Vipers. Those sidearms tend to make you waste ammo in one burst, firing too many bullets because of the mod.

[Ace4225]

Those sidearms tend to make you waste ammo in one burst, firing too many bullets because of the mod.

Multishot doesn't increase ammo consumption. It simply splits your bullets into more.

Everyone here is ignoring the fact that the increased shots/damage provided by multishot mods is already required in the highest-tiered missions. Whether or not you like the fact that there are currently "core" mods that should be on every weapon, that is precisely the case.

 

 

Instead of two slots effectively being lost to "required" multishot mods, you can simply add in things like slip magazine for an extra shot per magazine, faster reload mods, or even more elemental damage.

1. Only certain elemental combos are beneficial at any given time, and only one combo (Blast + Corrosive) is generally effective against more than one faction. Damage 2.0 was designed this way on purpose.

2. Slip Magazine/Quickdraw provides no benefit to Castanas because of their near-instant reload time and the limit of 6 knives, which brings me back to the point of the OP.

You guys need to think about end-game, not just Appollodorus and Kappa.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Ace4225

[Mastikator2]

 

You guys need to think about end-game, not just Appollodorus and Kappa.

Actually you can do just fine without end game. You can play without ever touching end game and miss nothing.

[-AR.D2]

2. Slip Magazine/Quickdraw provides no benefit to Castanas because of their near-instant reload time and the limit of 6 knives, which brings me back to the point of the OP.

 

Not quite. Also, I never said to remove multishot mods completely. If you leave just one of them in, it'll provide you with a compromise between raw damage and the usability of the weapon. If you combo Barrel Diffusion with Slip Magazine and Quick Draw, you'll get a several beneficial things:

• Comparable damage boost.
• Increases your total amount of knives before detonations to three knives.
• Lets you unload all three knives without disruptions of a reload.
• Contrary to your belief, I do think the faster reload is still of some benefit. While Castanas has a one second reload, it still only has a base of 2 knives per magazine; meaning you'll be spending more time reloading than actually throwing those knives.

An extra knife before detonation can make a big difference. This gives you three tries to hit a target and you won't have to reload before you need to detonate for the next set of knives.

 

I think the real problem here is you're forcing a play style on a weapon that is ill suited to being a rapid fire weapon. I have found it to be more of a burst DPS weapon, notably good on taking out heavy units.

[Ace4225]

Actually you can do just fine without end game. You can play without ever touching end game and miss nothing.

You're right, but there should be endgame-viable builds for each weapon so that you can use it for end-game.

 

 

If you combo Barrel Diffusion with Slip Magazine and Quick Draw, you'll get a several beneficial things

You'll get much more beneficial things from putting other (better) mods in there instead of wasting a reload speed mod on a weapon with already near-instant reload speed. Also, Slip Mag doesn't help if you put on multishot, since you'll pretty much only be able to use the clip (plus 1) before having to detonate, so again, wasted space (also, slow-ish fire rate without Gunslinger, so the default reload speed is neglible).

You're not talking about a playstyle, you're talking about wasted mods, almost as bad as putting Eagle Eye on the Flux Rifle or Steady Hands on the Detron. Yes, they still give benefits, but benefits that don't actually help the weapon be more useful.

The best ways to mod a weapon are to either play into its strengths to make it as strong as possible, or to play into its most significant weaknesses to bring it to a more well-rounded place.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Ace4225

[Ace4225]

My personal thinking is that these weapons are actually balanced for the content whereas most of them aren't. Allowing them the full benefit of multi-shot would OP them.

 

In truth, I'd like to see all the weapons balanced to not need it at all. It would open the door for much more diverse builds. 

except the game doesn't currently support more than a few viable setups. I'd love to see mod changes/updates/additions in the future that allow for more diverse builds, but not individual weapon mechanics that do this. One or two of the weapons are "balanced" because they don't fully benefit from certain mods the way 95% of the other weapons do?

That's not what I would call "balanced." I'd call it "underpowered."

Edited February 25, 2014 by Ace4225