OniDax Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Rhino's drawback is supposed to be his speed. He should not be the fastest frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinmori Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 [...] Yeah, I suggested a Rhino nerf (I honestly don't think Rhino should have a helmet that boosts speed), but I've played Rhino more than any other frame, yet I do still suggest a nerf to his speed. Maybe he can have more stamina, explained by having more momentum (yeah, I know it's not the same but it's the closest thing in the game). Yeah right, let's do this. Let's have all the players go back to skiing/coptering instead of just running. Let's nerf things instead of asking to solve the real problem which is the actual stamina system, cuz that worked so well until now. I mean, why would we want everyone to have fun, it's way more interesting to have some players left behind when others are just nuking everything before they can even enter the room. "Rhino's supposed to be the last to get to the extraction point ! I absolutely f****** love to wait for players when i'm in a mission !" Cry moar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 It is a bit idiotic to ask for a character to be slow slow that without half his mod slots taken up with stamina and speed mods he can't actually keep up with the squad to be of any use on a normal mission. A standard Rhino will just spend the whole mission wandering through empty rooms picking up loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 they are going to take stats off the helmets soon so afjusted rhino to not be stupid slow without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrionn Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Umm no speed doesnt affect your general gameplay and speed doesnt kill, unless you are Flash or Instant Transmision Goku (well that is more of teleport) So moar SPEED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you guys serious ? I mean, there are only two types of frames that, when played by a really good player, can actually kill everything before you even see it, they are Loki and Vanguard Rhino. I hear people crying about Nova killing everything, effin' noobs IMHO, but if you put such a tool in the hands of a real good marksman this is complete overkill... Stop thinking with numbers guys, whatever the game, the speed is one of the strongest characteristic if you actually know how to use it and there is a million good reasons for that. Rhino is already a very strong frame, Vanguard makes him even stronger, so now getting him to Loki's speed...trust me as soon as I get my hands on this one there will be some disappointed peeps in invasions, I may run them just for the fun and the taste of the tears the other team members will provide me with when reaching extraction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayPi3 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Vanguards speed comes with a price, lower power strength....and if you think that is not something worrying, then take a moment to understand that Ironskin (that awfull skill that everyone always complains about) gets influenced by power strength. Thus a faster rhino with vanguard is a weaker rhino, Damage abilities included. The sad part is you get the Thrakk helm and it basically boosts your health...but nerfs your speed and nerfing .8 speed is bad. If R.prime has increased speed, it gives us that option to drop the vanguard and get our stronger Ironskin back....stack it with Roar....Oh....Yes. There are frames with much better stats on their alt helms, but no one complains about this. Personally, THANK YOU DE...Rhino Prime looks AWESOME and I cant wait to take him for a spin. Now I can put my normal rhino to rest and have the new big guy take his place. I would have liked him to have base HP of 150, like Saryn,Ash and Frost....but I am not complaining about what I get regardless, with IS being a 3rd healthbar that keeps you alive...^^ I think the ALL primes should be slightly better stat wise compared to the normals. Like the weapon versions, it should be more special. Getting them should be a challenge and a reward in itself. Knowing that there are 2 frosts in a squad, 1 normal 1 prime, surely the prime has to be superior...that should be the whole point of what the Void does too you. Look at the mobs there, they are all more powerfull than their normal counterparts....BRING IT TO FRAMES TOO. That would mean you could have an even more invisible Loki.....oooooh. The power strength redux on his helmet is negligible. And if we're talking high level content, you don't even really need power strength since your iron skin will get killed so fast and your stomp won't be doing much damage-- but wait! he has CC built into his stomp. So he's still useful without power strength. I don't think prime frames need to be direct upgrades to their counterparts. The extra bling on it is reason enough to justify its farm. If you add extra stats on it, then you limit player choice because they're just flat out better. Having a prime frame should be a symbol of prestige, and nothing more. Weapons are enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALE94 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Are you guys serious ? Speed is good that is why i say moar speed, but speed is tool not bullets or weapon. Speed makes reaching goal more fast. So why nerf it, we are ninja trained hyper inter galactic space unit, not snails. Edited March 7, 2014 by SALE94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrieros Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 yes, a very good point holiday, If Rhino is...according to DE...the tank frame, then his skills should reflect that aspect about him. And seeing as people are laughing him off in late game content, it embarrasses the idea of the creator who designed him. The only sollution is to bring back the 15secs godmode invulnerability to his Ironskin...make it attract aggro big time and get it into ALL other frames heads, to STAY BEHIND THE TANK...move as a team and let the bastard do what they meant him to do....keep aggro and maybe give a power boost and a cc....charge is a movement skill in anycase...that no one uses... The problem is, Rhino is so slow that no one gives him time to get into position to do what he needs to do...so can you blame a Rhino player for stacking speed and stamina to not just keep up, but keep ahead of all those nippy bastards. So if he clearly is NOT a tank at present and does not have any advantages like many frames have late game, but players still enjoy playing him....then cudos to them. And if you still dont fall down late game then congratulations....you survived with literally NO powers compared to a guy who goes invisible and gets a 400% damage buff on melee attacks, a dude who drops a fly net in which everything gets stuck or a hole that sucks everything in...or a chick that absorbs all damage as a buff and my personal favourate...a chick that reflects ALL damage regardless of enemy lvl, back to multiple enemies around her...and its not even a ulti....how is that not 20 secs of god mode, to name but a few. There are many more user friendly frames out there late game than Rhino. Give the dude a break and the players who roll him. If you don't like him as a prime....so what...many do, wait your turn. At least you know it wont be Rhino next time...i secretly hope they drop saryn prime ahead of loki...just to stick it to those smug bastards. And before anyone says...yes but he has stomp, then excuse me...stomp does no effective damage lategame and only acts as a cc lift, not to mention that Rhino has one of the smallest power pools which means you can do that stomp twice from full power and it has a cooldown on use. A second use generally means you have no power to toggle a Iron skin when it goes down...which once again leaves you with no powers and not even the biggest health pool like a tank should have....well lets not give people something else to cry over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrionn Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Speed is good that is why i say moar speed, but speed is tool not bullets or weapon. Speed makes reaching goal more fast. So why nerf it, we are ninja trained hyper inter galactic space unit, not snails. Speed help to reach your goal faster, it helps running in front of your team mates, it helps escaping, it helps aiming, it helps getting in or out of melee range, it helps picking up loot, it helps having more presence in "static" missions like defenses and mobile defenses, and so on... Having a good base speed is a good replacement to a mobility tool, where a Nova has Wormhole or Valkyr has Ripline Rhino just runs. Don't get me wrong this is good for him to fulfil his role of frontline frame, but please don't say that this is nothing and that he needs it so badly... common this one of the best frame in-game ! yes,[...] over. So you're either sarcastic or got no clue about "late game". Rhino not viable in late game ? Stomp useless ? Sorry but train a bit more before stating things like this... Rhino is the more polyvalent frame with Loki or Nyx I'd say, and his utility never falls off. Comparing it to Zephyr and saying Rhino is worse...such a joke ! Now I think that once again there's a mistake with DE communication. It's the same as the "Valkyr is a berserker!" issue, they used the tank archetype name without thinking that players would have very precise expectations when hearing that. The tank archetype should be something that can absorb a lot of damage with a huge hp (or any ressource the game use) pool and attract aggro from ennemies to keep his team safe, and maybe have some crowd control on top of that. So we can all concurr on the fact that tanking through health or shield isn't something that is doable in Warframe, maybe with the exception of Valkyr for early/mid content. I won't speak much of Trinity there but Link makes her the best "tank" in game. We can observe that aggro management has been considered as a specific type of utility by DE giving frames like Loki and Nyx the upper hand on this part. And then we have crowd control that is owned by pretty much all frames in different degrees, matching their roles. I really love this way of doing things, DE decided to break through the conventionnal archetypes and roles you could expect from a type of character. This is one of the really good points in this game, please let's not be so Narrow Minded and keep thinking that "Huh, this one is a phatass dude, it's a tank so he should be like a tank is meant to be!". To resume, there are no real tanks, casters, berserkers or supporting roles, we should speak about front line and back line. DE gave us archetypes name so we could foresee the general orientation of the frame, nothing more. Please let's stop thinking in stereotypes videos games implemented in our minds and try to appreciate what makes Warframe a bit more unique than the others. Edited March 7, 2014 by Cyrionn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrionn Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Sorry but I have disagree with the "Loki" part. Nova would kill before you saw it, Saryn also (assuming we aren't talking about weaponry other than Melee and pure WF abilities). A Loki has to get in close, so no matter what the skill level it would never kill before people see it (unless everybody is walking). In my opinion, they should remove Stamina, put all frames to the same base speed of perhaps 1.3 and then raise lighter frame speed up higher. This would not be game breaking, we are space-ninja's, highly mobile and quick. Can't say I understand what the problem is with raising speed. Sorry for double posting, we are talking of killing, so we are talking of weaponry. Soma and speed makes your MPriming Nova useless. That said I agree with your point, they could keep stamina but disparity between frames pace shouldn't exist, or not on this scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fomiru Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Rhino needs toned down, a tank doesnt give extra damage, he defends. And please nerf vanguard, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 honestly i think they should buff the speed of other frames, i mean, seriously, have you ever played frost? anything with that speed is just garbage in any mission unless it has a nova tier ability set, and rhino (normal one) is fine as it is, it has already gone throught various iterations and is just as good as most of the frames (talkin about zephyr, loki, vauban, mag etc) even with the vanguard helmet it isn't that much of a problem and it still is BY FAR inferior to frames like nova and trinity. however that doesn't mean that his prime version should be a racing car, there is just no reason for it to have faster run speed than the normal one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)billy-d-squid Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Vanguards speed comes with a price, lower power strength....and if you think that is not something worrying, then take a moment to understand that Ironskin (that awfull skill that everyone always complains about) gets influenced by power strength. Thus a faster rhino with vanguard is a weaker rhino, Damage abilities included. The sad part is you get the Thrakk helm and it basically boosts your health...but nerfs your speed and nerfing .8 speed is bad. If R.prime has increased speed, it gives us that option to drop the vanguard and get our stronger Ironskin back....stack it with Roar....Oh....Yes. Rubbish, the power strength reduction is 5%, not 20% I have yet to see anyone use Rhino with a Vanguard helm who is not running with stretch, flow and efficiency, if not focus as well. Please, you can't be crazy enough to think that 5% makes a difference to Rhino's Iron skin, Stomp or Charge usage or Roar. Edited March 7, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Valkyr needs lower armor, lower health, but higher shields and much higher power (befitting her rage). I will politely disagree with this. I enjoy seeing a frame that doesn't boil down to stacking shields to survive, but rather survive on good old damage reduction and Hysteria's regenerating properties. Rubbish, the power strength reduction is 5%, not 20% I have yet to see anyone use Rhino with a Vanguard helm who is not running with stretch, flow and efficiency, if not focus as well. Please, you can't be crazy enough to think that 5% makes a difference to Rhino's Iron skin, Stomp or Charge usage or Roar. And pretty much this as for the "Rhino Vanguard comes with a price" argument. 5% isn't noticeable, the loss of power is never going to be missed in any battle Rhino will ever face. Edited March 7, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttariel Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Gotta be honest, i dislike how he gets not a single downside now. And his description is a joke. "trading speed for power" while all his other stats stay in a decent spot his "downside" can simply be fixed for almost nothing, and not only this. It makes him faster then 50% of the frames. Of course one could say "oh but he needs a maxed rush mod " yes, but so do the called 50% of the frames while they will still get less then a vanguard rhino. Dont want to make the caster frames fast ? sure ok thats fair, but what about frames like excal and valkyr. Excal uses a basic 1.0 and Valkyr a frame that could really use a speed bonus for her joke of an ult gets 1.1 Im rather salty right now haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I will politely disagree with this. I enjoy seeing a frame that doesn't boil down to stacking shields to survive, but rather survive on good old damage reduction and Hysteria's regenerating properties. And pretty much this as for the "Rhino Vanguard comes with a price" argument. 5% isn't noticeable, the loss of power is never going to be missed in any battle Rhino will ever face. Look at Valkyr, and tell me that she should have 600 armor. Armor is the one thing that's been stripped off of her. Sure, health can stay the same, but she needs to have lower armor, if not the lowest in the game. She should make up for that through power and stamina. Edited March 7, 2014 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Speed is good that is why i say moar speed, but speed is tool not bullets or weapon. Speed makes reaching goal more fast. So why nerf it, we are ninja trained hyper inter galactic space unit, not snails. Again, Rhino is supposed to be slower. That's what his drawback is supposed to be, so why is he one of, if not, the fastest frame in the game? And yes, with maxed out Rush and Vanguard, he pretty much is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Look at Valkyr, and tell me that she should have 600 armor. Armor is the one thing that's been stripped off of her. ... I am a little confused by your sentence to be honest, but fine. Valkyr should have 600 armor, and even less shields and more Health. My opinion though, and that's because I like how you have to play her currently. You can't just take cover to regain your shields, you need to actively butcher opponents with Hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axterix13 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 It is a bit idiotic to ask for a character to be slow slow that without half his mod slots taken up with stamina and speed mods he can't actually keep up with the squad to be of any use on a normal mission. A standard Rhino will just spend the whole mission wandering through empty rooms picking up loot. That can be solved by making enemies an actual threat (by nerfing weapon mods and efficiency), so that the frames that are supposed to be a bit more fragile actually have a downside (much like a Rhino should have his speed as his). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisawa Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Again, Rhino is supposed to be slower. That's what his drawback is supposed to be, so why is he one of, if not, the fastest frame in the game? And yes, with maxed out Rush and Vanguard, he pretty much is. And how does he get those? By either luck or buying platinum, so far. I don't see the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 And how does he get those? By either luck or buying platinum, so far. I don't see the issue. He doesn't have a drawback. He makes every other frame in the game redundant and pointless to play. There's a thing called Balance, and yes it does indeed reside in Co-op PVE games just like Warframe as well. Balance in Warframe is lacking though, which is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)billy-d-squid Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Look at Valkyr, and tell me that she should have 600 armor. Armor is the one thing that's been stripped off of her. Sure, health can stay the same, but she needs to have lower armor, if not the lowest in the game. She should make up for that through power and stamina. How would that have fixed anything? Lowest armour in the game, lets say 15. Up her shields, and boost her stamina and Power. It'd make her the most 1 dimensions frame we have, reduced to run really fast and spam Hysteria before your shields drop and you die. Currently she is the only frame with a somewhat effective damage reduction based on armour. I see what you're trying to do, ie: she's a berserker, so why does she have so much armour? And I see your point and understand the direction that you view her design from. But practically, she has no crowd control at all. Paralysis yeah it's okay, but it's not enough to keep her alive for more than a few seconds, namely until you can activate Hysteria. The only way to make her even remotely usable was to buff her armour for the damage reduction, stacking shields would have been the same as every other frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 He doesn't have a drawback. He makes every other frame in the game redundant and pointless to play. There's a thing called Balance, and yes it does indeed reside in Co-op PVE games just like Warframe as well. Balance in Warframe is lacking though, which is sad. Lol. Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackram Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 And pretty much this as for the "Rhino Vanguard comes with a price" argument. 5% isn't noticeable, the loss of power is never going to be missed in any battle Rhino will ever face. Biggest downside to the Vanguard helmet is that it looks way worse than the stock helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantasmo Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Vanguard is one of those Warframe mysteries. I just can't explain myself how a dedicated game designer could create such an abomination. Edited March 8, 2014 by Phantasmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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