Is De Relying Too Much On Powercreep To Hold Interest/sell Weapons?

[Calsius]

Good to see this being discussed again. Such a long standing point of contention and one DE still hasn't made up their minds on.

 

 

Instead of an opinon, let me first share a question that I formed after reading this thread.

 

 

"Why have forma or mods. If certain weapons will always be more powerful?"

 

If I can't make a Mk-1 braton as powerful as a fully tricked out boltor prime. Why is the mod system in the game? Why doesn't every weapon come with fixed stats. If we go with the idea of having tiered weapons (and frames) - then it stifles the variety of options available. You need 2-3 generic, boring low level assault rifles so that people can rank up and get access to the one uber assault rifle to rule them all. Any unique traits, or appealing visuals of those 3 lower teir weapons are wasted - they may as well all look and function precisely the same, because as soon as you have the high teir option - it would be ineffective to use the lower. They're using a system that guarantee's there will always be boring weapons - in the name of a token sense of progression. The way I see it, mods and the weapons mod capacity, should be all the form of progression we need. 

To be fair, I find it hard to believe anybody can find Plasma weaponry boring.

[shut]

No such thing as power creep in a progression based game. This is a progression based game. 

Problem is that weapons don't become stronger in a "progressive" sense. Look at Soma.

 

OT: I don't like that the weapons are steadily getting stronger and stronger (especially when guns like Soma already trivialize pretty much all of the game's content with no downside, and many new weapons are even stronger with the only balancing factor being that they're slightly harder to use). However, the problem with the damage gap isn't the weapon that they're using, but the mods that they're using.

 

If a modded MK1-Braton and a modded Soma are both used in a T3 Defense or something, then Soma's going to destroy the MK1 as expected. However, the MK1 will still be able to hold its own just fine as long as it's well modded. Perhaps doing less than 20% of the Soma's damage, if even, but still holding its own.

The mod system in its current state does not allow this. A poorly-modded Soma can find it mathematically impossible to defeat Alad V, and a well-modded MK1-Braton can destroy the strongest enemies in the game in a matter of seconds. I mean, props to the guys who stick with their MK1s for that long, but a weapon should never trivialize the entirety of the game's content the way minmaxed currently do-- no matter how much work you put into it--, and a weapon, no matter how poorly modded, should never be completely and utterly useless on a mid-leveled enemy, even if it is a boss.

 

Weapon scaling has its problems, but if you want to fix the game's power creep, then the mod system should be your first target.

Edited March 11, 2014 by SortaRandom

[11.11.11]

To be fair, I find it hard to believe anybody can find Plasma weaponry boring.

?

If a modded MK1-Braton and a modded Soma are both used in a T3 Defense or something, then Soma's going to destroy the MK1 as expected. However, the MK1 will still be able to hold its own just fine as long as it's well modded. Perhaps doing less than 20% of the Soma's damage, if even, but still holding its own.

The mod system in its current state does not allow this.

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused as to what you're trying to say.

First you say that if a modded Soma and braton are used side by side, then the soma will destroy the MK1. Obviously, as the soma has the higher base stats, so any equal improvement in both will still see the soma winning.

But then you go on to claim that the Braton will "hold its own just fine" - "doing less than 20% of the Soma's damage". How is 20% more damage cause for the Soma to 'destroy' the Braton? Thats more like a decent upgrade. Outright outclassing would be closer to 45% or even a 50% difference between the two. So does the modded first generation weapon preform poorly vs the 5th generation one? Or does it not? And are you saying its failure to preform is a reflection of the weapon itself, or the mods applied to it? Or the mod system as a whole?

You then go on to say that the mod system in its current state doesn't support "this". This what? The example you just tried to outline? Was that a hypothetical scenario? Because in my experience fully modded MK1 bratons can be pretty damn effective - but a similarly modified soma will always beat it in the end. Are you saying that the current system supports this kind of powercreep, or not? Is that a good or bad thing in your eyes?

Edited March 11, 2014 by 11.11.11

[Monolake]

Allow me to ask you a question:

 

Do you think the player base would take interest in / keep new weapons that are weaker than the ones they already possess?

I have no interest in any new weapons, there is nothing to fight with OP guns since no highlevel content is being added. Only somewhat interesting are weapons with original mechanics, like Castanas (still didnt bother maxing them).

Btw many people liked Karak and used it on everything just for its feel and look, while its damage is very average.

[Shackram]

Allow me to ask you a question:

 

Do you think the player base would take interest in / keep new weapons that are weaker than the ones they already possess?

 

Yes. And it already happens. Do you even read the forum?

 

Not to mention, if it was properly balanced they wouldn't be "weaker", just different.

 

Weapons are tiered. Graduate to Mastery 6 and indeed, why would you go back and use a Mastery 2 weapon? I don't mind. Working as intended imho. 

 

Because there's cool weapons at the lower ranks? Or is it only about the numbers for you?