What A "prime" Should Be.

[Understray]

The fact that DE made prime parts tradeable instead of fixing void drops just says they have very little intentions of making prime 'frames standout much.

[Seraiya.Gier]

I guess you could also say we are indeed a testament of how DE can't make everyone happy.

Game Devs can't appease everyone. People fail to grasp that. They'll do what they believe is best, and by far it is looking like they are going down the path of making Prime Frames better than the other version. Albeit via baby steps. I think it's called Jebb's Law or some crap. There'll always be someone who complains about everything. People all want different things. Whether it's the whole "Homogenize everything" bit, or "I want to be a god amongst mortal men!" Then you also have those who want "challenge". Then complain that there is little to none, as they're using a powerful weapon/modded themselves rather well. What do you expect, to have enemies scale with your conclave level!?

 

I mean hell, the one thing I enjoy most about Warframe, is that I can play this game without using much of my mental faculties.(While keeping some specific things challenging like a T3 Def) I can work on stuff for my books at the same time while playing.

[--MANA--]

 

 

Note, they did announce on making Primes more unique, without making the original be eaten by power creep.

when did they mention this? i'm kinda curious. also would it be power wise or just stat wise? or maybe both?

[CanIbiteU]

With new Generic Ability Mods coming, i see some new Abilities that work only on prime frames. That would be awesome actually.

[Seraiya.Gier]

The fact that DE made prime parts tradeable instead of fixing void drops just says they have very little intentions of making prime 'frames standout much.

This too. It's another factor of "Don't want to grind till you go bald from pulling your hair out from bad RNG? Simply buy what you want with plat!" Another notion of pay for convenience and not "win". It's no longer fun after the umpteenth time farming the same void and seeing a forma blueprint or getting something you already had 12 of. Of course, they can also change how the system works by making the game read your inventory. By having a specific cap on how many items can be obtained from the void, it allows other items the chance to appear. I.E Have 5 fang prime blades?(Let's assume that's the hard cap), now it won't drop specifically for you anymore. Allowing another item in the loot table to appear for you.

[nintega]

I wish they still had a down vote option so badly right now. I disagree with literally everything you say. This game has enough power creep and absurd amounts of imbalance, it doesn't need anymore.

[Seraiya.Gier]

With new Generic Ability Mods coming, i see some new Abilities that work only on prime frames. That would be awesome actually.

If that were the case, then it'd make Primes more unique in the process. That would be a good addition.

[Seraiya.Gier]

I wish they still had a down vote option so badly right now. I disagree with literally everything you say. This game has enough power creep and absurd amounts of imbalance, it doesn't need anymore.

State your argument then if it wasn't already mentioned. Unless you follow the &*$$genize everything crowd.  In which case, your perception of balance is simply saying that you want everything to be brought down to what your current palette of weapon/frame choice happens to be. "This weapon outdoes my Braton, please make the Soma like my Braton. I want everyone to play the way I do."

 

This can also fall into the whole "What player x uses has no effect on you. If you don't like it, don't use it or play with people who use it." 

 

Apparently the word h o m o g e n i z e is censored. o_O

Edited March 9, 2014 by Reokudo

[PoorCensored]

People play Excalibur!?(Aside from new players.) Jokes aside, then the samplaysld apply for other weapons that were released from events that are exclusive. Such as Strun Wraith, which I missed. That follows the same concept. Exclusive is exclusive. DE would have to give Founders something else aside from Excalibur Prime and those other things to compensate for a re-release. Granted, I could care less if they do, but at least give us founders something shiny(Maybe a Syndana!)

Hey... my first frame was Mag...

1) Warframes and weapons are different. Many weapons fill the same role, and many stock weapons are better. If you like how Excaliber plays, you don't have any real other options.

2) I'm hoping that they eventually re run the events.

[Seraiya.Gier]

Hey... my first frame was Mag...

1) Warframes and weapons are different. Many weapons fill the same role, and many stock weapons are better. If you like how Excaliber plays, you don't have any real other options.

2) I'm hoping that they eventually re run the events.

Some frames have similar abilities when you think about it. Slash Dash is roughly the same as Tail Wind(When used in the air) and Rhino Charge. Snow Globe is now a stationary Iron Skin with more health  and capable of shielding others. Frames may fill some niches, but all and all they are used for the same purposes. To kill things. Or protect an objective.

 

My first frame was Excalibur. The moment I got a Rhino, I tossed him aside. I didn't even know what his abilities did, I just wanted to play him because he was the bulkiest frame.

[PoorCensored]

By that argument, the Soma and the Lato are the same...

[123Olympian]

Power Creep to me simply means that it's a game breaking change. Like introducing a weapon that has such a massive damage advantage over the others. Like a primary weapon (Let's say it's a Railgun) that does 20k damage in a massive line in front of it, pierces all targets and obstacles. Upon impact with a surface(Like a wall or floor mainly) it causes an explosion that does double the damage. This makes every other weapon pointless. As such, should not exist.

 

A prime however, should be an improvement aside form a polarity and aesthetic. Like someone mentioned, maybe a passive ability also works.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.^[1] The phenomenon may be caused by a number of different factors and, in extreme cases, can be damaging to the longevity of the game in which it takes place."-Actual Definition

 

Change is progress, progress is not just throwing some God-Tier primes at us, it's balancing and correctly distributing power.

 

[Lunamaniac]

No need to make the fastest fame faster.

He isn't anymore, Loki Prime will have 2 base speed :l

 

More shields and health would be useless to Loki.

[Ignaesia]

Power Creep to me simply means that it's a game breaking change. Like introducing a weapon that has such a massive damage advantage over the others. Like a primary weapon (Let's say it's a Railgun) that does 20k damage in a massive line in front of it, pierces all targets and obstacles. Upon impact with a surface(Like a wall or floor mainly) it causes an explosion that does double the damage. This makes every other weapon pointless. As such, should not exist.

 

A prime however, should be an improvement aside form a polarity and aesthetic. Like someone mentioned, maybe a passive ability also works.

 

That is not what power creep is. Power creep is when you slowly keep introducing things that are inherently better than the default content. As such the "old" content becomes obsolete. Power creep already exists in Warframe, there are weapons available now that are hilariously overpowered compared to anything from a year ago.

 

As several people in this thread have expressed concern (and rightly so): Noone will want to bother farming/potatoing/formaing the normal versions of frames/weapons when instead they could just work toward a more powerful prime variant.

[123Olympian]

when did they mention this? i'm kinda curious. also would it be power wise or just stat wise? or maybe both?

A while back within the community topics. Basically in general, balancing, and making more unique.

 

Yet not to a point where the original is obsolete.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I would have preferred it if they gave all Prime frames unique visual effects. Maybe in the case of Rhino prime, a really fancy looking and shiny Iron Skin (Radiation Rhino looks pretty awesome), or maybe when you stomp, it causes a ton of golden particles to be suspended in the air as well. Maybe when Excalibur Prime casts Radial Javelin, the summoned skanas could shatter into golden pieces after a duration, or when he uses Radial Blind, the weapon will flash gold instead of silver and his melee will stay gold for a while with him giving off a golden glow for the first 5 seconds (the stun). You can make the Primes feel more powerful without actually obsoleting the non-Primes.

 

I share the opinion of many others that I would not want the Prime variants to be more powerful. I don't really have anything to say about it that nobody else has, though.

[Seraiya.Gier]

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.^[1] The phenomenon may be caused by a number of different factors and, in extreme cases, can be damaging to the longevity of the game in which it takes place."-Actual Definition

 

Change is progress, progress is not just throwing some God-Tier primes at us, it's balancing and correctly distributing power.

 

I was unaware that we're getting God Tier Primes thrown at us. The basis of the argument is to say the Primes should outperform the other version. Mainly in the frames, such as the weapons do. How does a the Prime version of a particular frame throw the game into such disarray that the very fabric of the space time continuum collapses upon itself? It's a basic improvement. If you had a Braton, and a Braton Prime. Which are you going to use? The Prime obviously, because it's better and out performs the mass produced variant.

 

I'm not saying make the Prime frame so grossly incandescent they can become a sun that outshines every other frame in the process. Just outshines the other version of themselves. It's an improvement over themselves. Like maybe he/she was lifting, those shiny bits exude power itself from his very pores and he/she farts lightning. 

[Seraiya.Gier]

He isn't anymore, Loki Prime will have 2 base speed :l

 

More shields and health would be useless to Loki.

That was an example. That's the only drawback to Loki  that I see. Unless you know of another.

[Ignaesia]

I was unaware that we're getting God Tier Primes thrown at us. The basis of the argument is to say the Primes should outperform the other version. Mainly in the frames, such as the weapons do. How does a the Prime version of a particular frame throw the game into such disarray that the very fabric of the space time continuum collapses upon itself? It's a basic improvement. If you had a Braton, and a Braton Prime. Which are you going to use? The Prime obviously, because it's better and out performs the mass produced variant.

 

I'm not saying make the Prime frame so grossly incandescent they can become a sun that outshines every other frame in the process. Just outshines the other version of themselves. It's an improvement over themselves. Like maybe he/she was lifting, those shiny bits exude power itself from his very pores and he/she farts lightning. 

 

No, they should not be better. The older prime weapons were not better than the originals, they were variants. The ones that are straight upgrades are a mistake and DE should correct that and not make this a trend

[Seraiya.Gier]

That is not what power creep is. Power creep is when you slowly keep introducing things that are inherently better than the default content. As such the "old" content becomes obsolete. Power creep already exists in Warframe, there are weapons available now that are hilariously overpowered compared to anything from a year ago.

 

As several people in this thread have expressed concern (and rightly so): Noone will want to bother farming/potatoing/formaing the normal versions of frames/weapons when instead they could just work toward a more powerful prime variant.

Rightly so, as is the case in every other MMO type game. The old gear is always made obsolete by newer ones, it should always be this way. Mostly when it comes to starting gear, and anything that doesn't require any mastery. It's mastery fodder otherwise. You get it, and level it simply to raise your mastery and no other reason. That will always be the case, unless the game as a whole is changed. If all the weapons were too close to each other stat/damage wise; you'd only use a weapon because you like the look of it, and not the functionality of it.

 In a game about murdering things, you obviously want to use what makes murdering your enemies all the more beautiful/simpler. Whether it's dismemberment, pinning them to a wall, or sending them into sky never to be seen again. It all boils down to personal preference.

[Seraiya.Gier]

No, they should not be better. The older prime weapons were not better than the originals, they were variants. The ones that are straight upgrades are a mistake and DE should correct that and not make this a trend

By that argument, Primes shouldn't exist at all. They're meant to be better. How is it "Orokin Enhanced" if it does nothing better than the other version? Is the Gold Trim enhanced? You sound like you want the stuff h omogenized. That's like buying an item now, then seeing an improved version come out some time later and then complain because it's better instead of just having a shiny coat or some snazzy text on it.

 

DE: We've introduced this shiny new assault rifle, it's the F-You 5000. It has the same stats as your Braton. But it looks badass! Look at how it shines!

Player:I'm sold! *Internally screams*

[Ignaesia]

Rightly so, as is the case in every other MMO type game. The old gear is always made obsolete by newer ones, it should always be this way. Mostly when it comes to starting gear, and anything that doesn't require any mastery. It's mastery fodder otherwise. You get it, and level it simply to raise your mastery and no other reason. That will always be the case, unless the game as a whole is changed. If all the weapons were too close to each other stat/damage wise; you'd only use a weapon because you like the look of it, and not the functionality of it.

 In a game about murdering things, you obviously want to use what makes murdering your enemies all the more beautiful/simpler. Whether it's dismemberment, pinning them to a wall, or sending them into sky never to be seen again. It all boils down to personal preference.

 

You have no idea what power creep is at all nor why it's such a bad thing for games like this

[Legion-Shields]

Mag Prime's passive should be zero (or greatly reduced)  shield regen delay.

 

She still takes slash damage.....

Edited March 9, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[weirdee]

Suggestion: make the most used alt helmet stats for the normal warframes automatically inherent in the prime warframes, so that we don't have to choose between looking fancy and actually getting S#&$ done, like they did with rhino prime.

[Seraiya.Gier]

You have no idea what power creep is at all nor why it's such a bad thing for games like this

You gave an example. I compared it to other game types such as an MMORPGs(And other MMOs). New equipment will always be better than the older versions. There is no avoiding that. To want everything similar or exactly the same makes things dull. What are you grinding this new weapon for? "Oh, because it's shiny and has a nice visual!" Ok, that's nice and all. But is that it? New gear is going to outclass old gear That's how it is. Get gear to get better gear to get even better gear. It's the endless cycle. Otherwise, it's all "I can use this weapon my entire game career and never have to worry about another again!"

 

If Power Creep is to mean new equipment becomes better, than that's a good thing. Now, if it becomes... Better on a massive level(Like Acrid was in the past making everything else inferior), then yes; that is a problem. That is in the case of an item making every other item obsolete. Not one new version making an older version of itself obsolete. That's like leveling up and getting a new armor set that has better stats. Or do you want to run around in your plain steel armor and not upgrade to Dark Steel!?