Forcing The Style

[Void_Shark]

Hello,

This topic is made to discuss about the special animations/movements available and how to make good use of them, and in particular, how can the developers force players to use those moves.

In fact, i think that developers should settle up many kind of hostiles that will force the player to use a special move, like air diving, knee sliding eventualy combined with the jump that can be made after wards, side rolls....

For example i really think that developers should make an enemy that can be attacked only by below.

Imagine a Quadriped enemy (enemy with 4 legs/foots) who have legs long enough to allow players to slide below them and shoot them in a vital point that is right in the middle of him. (and this would be the only and single way to kill him; besides throwing an explosive below him or somthing like that).

Imagine another kind of enemy that forces the player to roll, like a Bull, that will do dashes against the player, it would be an Excalibur like enemy, he will sword-dash / horn-dash us and the easiest way to dodge his move would be to roll.

There can also be general forcing: imagine that enemies are incredible sharpshooters wich will hit you a lot if you only keep walking & running around, once you start air diving (Jump-> aim in mid air -> shoot in mid air) hostiles would become less effective.

Those are just suggestions and i suppose that many of you, developers and community members have other good ideas

PS: Sorry for grammar

[HellGrind]

+1 for greater variety in enemies!

Yeah this idea sounds great, I mean we're space ninjas, yet very rarely do I feel the need to use my ninja abilities during combat. Mowing down mobs of mobs (sorry couldn't help it) or rushing them with slide/charge attacks works just fine. Enemy types or even more environments that encourage us to utilise what, at the moment I think is an underused aspect of gameplay, would be awesome.

This reminds me, I watched the OB release trailer the other day, and I was thinking to tie in with the theme of communication and teamwork we should be able to maybe combine or somehow coordinate moves with other players. I know this is applied in terms of certain abilities such as Loki's switch teleport and the buffs Trinity can apply to teammates, but I'm talking things like one frame giving another a boost jump so that you can use an aerial AoE attack more effectively. Another idea I had was a warframe spinning another one around and sort of hammer tossing them a large distance across chasms or into groups of enemies with a sort of knockdown effect.

I'd just like to see a bit more variety in terms of team-based play where we get to interact with each other more, and enemies that do in fact challenge us to be ninjas rather than lawnmowers.

[Genoscythe]

A very good and creative idea, but first they should make it easier to perform those moves, like adding one single button for every move, so that you dant have to push 3 buttons at once.

[Void_Shark]

A very good and creative idea, but first they should make it easier to perform those moves, like adding one single button for every move, so that you dant have to push 3 buttons at once.

sorry but i strongly disagree with having one button for each move.

I think you see those move as hard because there are still MUCH lags on the servers wich makes you think its hard cause you dont see your character doing them.

The more skill you have, the more you can outstand your colleages , the more there is "WOAAH LULZYLOPIZYLOLD, I WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME AND BE STRONG" wich will become soon enough "Follow the bushido and you'll become skilled like me",

-> all of this will make competition -> more and more skills -> more fun -> more imagination -> more features

[Frazeil]

Thing is, we have two Bosses that fit your idea already.

The large Infested dog Boss (Phorrid?) and the Jackal.

Phorrid: I'd say it's already a decent size, but rarely ever will it's charge/Melee attacks actually connect. I've only fought it a handful of times and run circles round it. Tie-in with your suggestion give it a charge attack similar to a bull would be a nice addition.

An easy example I could use is has anyone played TERA online and fought the games 'BAM's? Stands for Big &#! Monsters, each one has attack patterns and hinted special attacks that they do every now and again. The hint can be a change in stance, or their hands may glow with energy, eyes flash red with anger, etc. I don't see the problem with implementing a similar aspect into Warframe. Games have been doing this for years anyway.

Jackal: Now make this thing roughly double it's current size, remove the stupid habit of it stamping the ground like a little brat every time someone is within poking distance of it. Add it's weak spot directly underneath it like you mentioned, but also make it's most powerful attack come from the same source/area. That would make it risky to attack from that particular position.

Sorry, I'm merely elaborating upon your great suggestion.

[Void_Shark]

The problem is that, even if there are already 2 bosses that Barely fit my description of "Original enemy" (Personnaly i never had to do any special moves against phorid, Using Ice mods on him makes him inoffensive, Meanwhile Jackall and Shockwave moras are indeed more interesting, I actually think that we need more and more of this kind of originality

[Kurochikun]

Hm, from what I understand this is already inplace guys.

You dash and block to avoid damage, several levels require you to wallrun and do backflips to reach the goal or simply reach a spot faster without stairs, I use the flying kick move when trying to get away from being surrounded plenty of times, especially soloing as it kicks the enemies down. When microwave Moas appear, you are supost to jump and use the jumping melee attack, when Prod crewmen or grinner attak you, you can crouch and attack to avoid their move, you can use slide for a variety of purposes. The crouching sword spin deals more damage than regular sword strikes and is very useful for enemies under cover, you can always throw enemies down to do the stab attack for extra damage. You can strike once with melee to throw enemies off balance and then charge attack.

Honestly the only attack that is completely useless is wallruning melee attack, there just isn't enough places to wallrun and fight at the same time, and the range is pretty short too AND leaves you vunerable too.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Kurochikun

[Toddwjp]

I like the idea of a large boss with a weak point under neath it so if your brave enough to slide under it you can do some nice cries but risk getting damaged your self. Also I already use the flying jump kick to knock down ancients. Or a group of charging infested.

[Zaenos]

"Forcing" players to play a certain way is generally bad game design. It's much less fun when there's only one possible approach to a situation.

That said, I think it would be a good idea to include more interactions with these abilities, and more diverse enemies with abilities that incentivize players to react. Something like being able to flying-kick the shields out of a Shield Lancer's hands would be great, but don't force players to it. It's about finding a balance: You don't want everything to only have one answer or there's no choice, but you don't want all options to be equally effective either or choice feels trivial.

A simple example of this is in the Shockwave Moas and the Jackal: You can jump over the shockwave, or outrun it, or use an ability to become immune to it, and depending on the situation different choices might be the better one. I think there can be even better implementations of this, though.

The one place where actually requiring certain actions might work well is in boss fights, especially if it cuts down on them just being massive bullet sponges.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Zaenos