Analysis Of Snipetron Vs. Lex: Snipetron Is Way Too Weak

[Splosions]

Then you compare the Lex and Latron and realise that IT'S THE GODDAMN SIDEARMS THAT NEEDS NERFING NOT THE MAIN WEAPONS THAT NEED BUFFING

It's not a pvp game, it is ok to request other items be buffed rather than asking for others to get nerfed. People generaly like to see their favorite guns get buffed rather than seeing their favorite guns get nerfed to meet the aspects of other guns they don't use.

Positive over negative, works well in real life too.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Splosions

[Vaskadar]

Problem: Rifle mods aren't great. This is apparent. They need a buff.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Vaskadar

[-CdG-Chocolate_Cat]

Paris beat em all but alot more downsides like not being able to shoot thru corpses,charging it,low ammo the upside is high damage per shot,stays undetected when shot used to kill enemys in a line and i forgot others.I'm just saying that paris is the best long range right now.

[Otaiken]

Paris beat em all but alot more downsides like not being able to shoot thru corpses,charging it,low ammo the upside is high damage per shot,stays undetected when shot used to kill enemys in a line and i forgot others.I'm just saying that paris is the best long range right now.

It'll be when we get mods that reduce the charge up time. Until then it's too slow. I can clear an entire group of enemies with Lex in 1/3 of a time it would take me to do the same with Paris. Even if I have to shoot them twice occasionally. There's a lot of enemies in this game, Paris just doesn't keep up.

[PoisonedTea]

main weapons or the mods need a buff

[Vaskadar]

Rifle mods, specifically need a buff. It's apparent that they aren't the lead-spewing death machines that they need to be to compete with the hard-hitters.

[__Kanade__]

It'll be when we get mods that reduce the charge up time. Until then it's too slow. I can clear an entire group of enemies with Lex in 1/3 of a time it would take me to do the same with Paris. Even if I have to shoot them twice occasionally. There's a lot of enemies in this game, Paris just doesn't keep up.

Actually, everyother weapon struggles to keep up with the Paris, an unmodded Paris still does better at higher difficulties then most modded weapons do. Have yet to kill an enemy past lvl30 with one shot like I can with the Paris modded or unmodded.

[UnderYourBed]

Rifle mods need a buff. Or shotgun and pistol mods need a nerf. I'm all for the buff.

[Kantarak]

Perhaps the weapons like Burston/Braton won't need tweaking, because they are not intended to be primary hard hitting damage dealers, but supportive Guns for suppressive fire with crowd control mods (Stagger/Frost/Electricity)

And maybe the Lex deals a huge amount of damage... it is compromised by having a rly slow rate of fire...

And maybe the Paris is indeed one of the best long range weapons... I would not even bother though, pulling my Paris against 5 charging Infested ...

my point is: Weapons might not be intended to be top of the guns

!!in terms of damage !!

all the time... they have their area of effectivenes! (See suppressive Fire or that guys comment on full AP Paris)

Edited April 7, 2013 by Kantarak

[Inofor]

I have completed revising my analysis after the buffs to rifle mods. Some stat values have also been fixed/refined by ingame testing.

 

Result: Lex is still better than Snipetron for both bossfights and normal combat.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Inofor

[Buddlschlumpf]

A higher base damage on the snipetron wouldnt fix anything. It would require natural puncture or something for it to be worthwile. Even the base damage of the lex is so high, that given decent mods, you overkill too much. As most of your dmg as wasted, your effective DPS are lowered significantly. A gun with similar dps like the lato vandal outshines the lex in almost any situation, as you are able to spread your damage over a larger amount of targets. This applies for mobs up to lvl50.

 

In the end, a one-shot-kill is a one-shot-kill. Noone cares if you just kill the enemy or if you blow him into a parallel universe.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Buddlschlumpf

[corpseshock]

I cant believe i read all of that. But well, you did the math and i appreciate that by reading.

 

Back to topic:

I KNEW IT. Though i was to lazy to find a proof Lex always felt superior in terms of base damage and ammo drop (regular psitol ammo ? Meh). This gun needs a slight nerf. Even with 3/4 base damage its still a damn powerful secondary. Snipetron on the other hand needs a small buff in terms of DPS. Rest is fine.

Edited April 20, 2013 by corpseshock

[Dancingfirefly]

The Snipetron probably would have done a lot better back when enemies had a lot less health. Likely many of the weapons that existed prior to the fairly drastic difficulty adjustments will need some tweaking to fit the new enemies.

 

I agree that the snipetron is definitely one of them. The Paris does better because it's both naturally armor penetrating and can be charged to do a little over 3x its base damage. That's a pretty big jump to start and an even bigger one once you're stacking mods into it.

[Drusus]

So I have to ask this question:

 

The math you've done clearly indicates the Lex outclasses the Snipetron, no question.

 

Is the issue that the Snipetron is not on par with the Lex?

 

OR

 

Is the issue that the Lex is not on par with weapon choices in general, i.e. overclocked compared to any comparable weaponry?

 

I think your math is on target, I'm just wondering that given that fact, is the Snipetron or the Lex set at the appropriate baseline?

[Kitzun]

I'm actually using the Lex in my setup, never used the snipetron so i can't really compare them, but the only thing that seems OP in the Lex is the max ammo size, 210 is too big for a heavy hitter, the snipetron has 70 when other rifles have 400/600.

The Lex max ammo should be nerfed, at least.

[Inofor]

Is the issue that the Snipetron is not on par with the Lex?

 

OR

 

Is the issue that the Lex is not on par with weapon choices in general, i.e. overclocked compared to any comparable weaponry?

 

Let's have a look at Braton Vandal and see what its sustained dps looks like. The snipetron is a weapon that should be clumsy to use (ammo trouble, clip size trouble, especially overkill trouble), but have a high sustained dps.

 

Braton Vandal:

Damage: 20

Crit rate: 0,075 (assuming from patch notes, since I won't be able to test this)

Crit multiplier: 1,48 (500 AP damage became 740 on corpus crewman headshot)

Fire rate: 9,4 shots per second

Clip size: 45

Reload time: 2,7 seconds (Didn't have any accurate reload time so I cooked something up: measured with watch. More than 2 seconds and less than 3 seconds.)

 

Anti-corpus build:

Multishot 0,9 15*0.5=8 points

Damage 2,65 14 points

Electrical 0,9 11 points

Freeze 0,9 9 points

Armour piercing 0,6 9 points

Crit chance 1,5 9 points

60-8-14-11-3*9=0

All points are used.

 

2,65*20damage=53 damage

 

Damage for one shot: 53+53*0,9Freeze+53*0,9Electrical+53*0,6AP=53+47Freeze+47Electrical+31AP=178 total damage to an element neutral target with no armour.

 

Crit damage:

178*1,48=263 damage

 

Crit chances:

Single shot: 7,5% chance to crit

Multishot 2:

Two separate 7,5% chances for crit each shot.

The chance that at least one shot will crit: 1-(1-0,075)^2=14,44%

 

Time to empty first clip is:

0+44/9,4 s=4,68s

 

Shot pattern for first clip:

1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2

Static pattern.

The 45 shots of the first clip have a total of 5+5*8*2 bullets = 85 bullets

 

Damage evaluation for the first clip assuming no crits:

85*178 damage=15130 damage in 4,68s, with a 2,7 second wait after shooting

Burst dps: 15130dmg/4,68s=3232,9 dps

Sustained dps: 15130dmg/(4,68s+2,7s)=2050,1dps (Lex had 1874,9dps, Snipetron had 726,5dps)

With expected value(in relation to number of shots fired in first clip) of crits:

Crit chance: 7,5%

Number of shots: 85

EV=0,075*85=6,375

(85-6,375)*178+6,375*263=15671dmg in 4,68s, with a 2,7 second wait after shooting

Burst dps with crit: 15671dmg/4,68s=3348,5 dps

Sustained dps with crit: 15671dmg/(4,68s+2,7s)=2123,4dps (Lex had 2021,0dps, Snipetron had 1561,8dps)

 

Conclusion:

The sustained dps values for Braton Vandal look to be very balanced with those of Lex.

 

Therefore, the changes should focus on buffing Snipetron instead of nerfing Lex.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Inofor

[Soulfighter]

thx for doing the dev's job