Rhino Is Not A Tank But A Juggernaut

[Zarozian]

Hate to say it, buck...

 

We are tanks.

 

Iron Skin says so. Those Bombards will stay rather shoot a Rhino with it on if it's in the room than they would something else.

 

Or... We can call ourselves Juggernauts with the mutant ability to &!$$ people off. xD

How about Vanguards? Since we're like. Fast now and we can come and save everyone's sorry &#!.

 

Like out here on the forums, they're all like: "BOOO! RHINO SUUUCKS! RHINO CAN'T BE FAST! ONLY MASTER RACE SHOULD BE FAST!"

 

Then in game they are like: "OMG RHINO! TY SO MUCH!! TY SO MUCH FOR REVING ME!! OOH THANK YOU RHINO YOU'RE LIKE A BROTHER TO ME LAD!"

 

But I think Vanguard would of been a better name.

[Zarozian]

I don't think Nova should have that CC to be honest. Vauban has low personal defenses as a result of his defensive powers.

I was directly quoting the OP who was stating these two frame's main strengths as a whole (damage and cc), and I was claiming that they have these strengths because they have drawbacks that suit these strengths. Rhino doesn't have drawbacks to his strengths (everywhere) anymore.

I'm using Trinity as an icon because she was given to us for free and I haven't changed it since I started playing way back when. I don't see how this has anything to do with the debate. Completely irrelevant.

Mind telling me where Rhino's strengths are?

 

Also Vauban lacks draw backs because his abilities make up for it no?

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

How about Vanguards? Since we're like. Fast now and we can come and save everyone's sorry &#!.

 

Like out here on the forums, they're all like: "BOOO! RHINO SUUUCKS! RHINO CAN'T BE FAST! ONLY MASTER RACE SHOULD BE FAST!"

i start to get tired of repeating myself: there's not just slowest and fastest, there's something in between. you can have a fast rhino but not rhino being the fastest, it's not reasonable. is that so hard to understand?

[Zarozian]

i start to get tired of repeating myself: there's not just slowest and fastest, there's something in between. you can have a fast rhino but not rhino being the fastest, it's not reasonable. is that so hard to understand?

Would you still use that^ statement to argue with me, if they come out with a speed based warframe which is far faster than Rhino Prime and Loki?

 

Would you still complain about Rhino Prime being the fastest then?

 

Is it that hard for you to understand that Rhino isn't the fastest and neither is Loki? Since speed isn't a necessity for both warframes to complete their roles?

 

It only makes it more fun.

 

Now why exactly is it a problem?

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

Mind telling me where Rhino's strengths are?

 

Also Vauban lacks draw backs because his abilities make up for it no?

rhino has 150 baseshields and 100 basehealth along with 190 armor which results in 38,8% damage mitigation- his running speed is at 1,25 with the vanguard helmet at the price of 5% powerstrength (additive malus). he got a skill to absorb damage which grants immunity to cc. he got the best allround damage buff in the game. he got an average cc skill, freezing entire rooms for 8 seconds, unaffected by power duration. his stats are strong and you need to press 2 when iron skin is down and 4 when you're overwhelmed. press 3 if built in when you got spare energy. you don't need to put thought into it.

 

vauban has 75 baseshields and 100 basehealth. his helmets suck. his running speed is at 1,0. vaubans abilities make up for his weak stats, but only if you put some thought into using them.

[HolidayPi3]

Mind telling me where Rhino's strengths are?

 

Also Vauban lacks draw backs because his abilities make up for it no?

Rhino's strengths lie in the fact that he's innately durable, can deal with the majority of the game's content by stomping them out of existence, can make himself immune to CC, can perma CC whole rooms of enemies, can buff his and his allies damage, and now he's fast. 

Vauban's drawbacks come into effect if his energy isn't managed properly, and he has no offensive capabilities like Rhino does. He doesn't have the raw stats that Rhino does in the case that he doesn't have his abilities to use.

Again, Rhino is a frame that has a good portion of every frame's strength at the cost of his speed. Arguing that Vauban (a pure CC frame) has more CC than him; therefore Rhino is balanced-- isn't very compelling.

Arguing that Valkyr, a melee frame that's built on the concept of HP tanking at the cost of her shields and team effectiveness, has more armor than Rhino is also not very compelling.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

Would you still use that^ statement to argue with me, if they come out with a speed based warframe which is far faster than Rhino Prime and Loki?

 

Would you still complain about Rhino Prime being the fastest then?

 

Is it that hard for you to understand that Rhino isn't the fastest and neither is Loki? Since speed isn't a necessity for both warframes to complete their roles?

 

It only makes it more fun.

 

Now why exactly is it a problem?

speed isn't necessarily important to complete their rules, but it grants them advantages over other frames. loki trades durability for it while rhino trades nothing for it. and right now rhino prime and loki are tied for the fastest frame, things not implemented yet are not really something to base an argument on.

[Zarozian]

Technically you are telling me the solution lies in them making a speed based warframe, rendering Loki and Rhino Prime with Vanguard helmet, no longer the fastest, but rather just fast.

 

Then everyone will stop complaining.

 

As for Rhino Prime with Vanguard being as fast as Loki.

 

Why exactly is that a problem?

 

And I will let the Master Race answer that question.

[Cwierz]

Mad that Rhino is as fast as your favorite frame? Then play as a Rhino or pretend he doesn't exist.

IF U DUN LIEK IT DUN USE ITZ PROBLEM SELVED111!!!!!11 (SMRT!!!!11)

 

NO.

That does't fix S#&$. That just makes everybody ignore the blatant problem. If this is how you truly feel about the situation, then you really.... REALLY should not be giving feedback about balance.

 

you can call it whatever word you want, but Balancing is necessary regardless. words don't justify statistics that are not reasonable.

/thread, this man understands.

 

Technically you are telling me the solution lies in them making a speed based warframe, rendering Loki and Rhino Prime with Vanguard helmet, no longer the fastest, but rather just fast.

 

Then everyone will stop complaining.

 

As for Rhino Prime with Vanguard being as fast as Loki.

 

Why exactly is that a problem?

 

And I will let the Master Race answer that question.

I am not a diehard loki player. But it should be fairly @(*()$ obvious.

If you can't tell, why are you giving feedback on a game that desperately needs feedback on balance. Get out.

 

 

 

The amount of people who think VANGUARD, not even rhino primes run speed, is okay is to high.

The amount of people who think rhino primes run speed is to high.

The amount of people who think BOTH are okay, is what to @(*()$ high.

 

DE, this is dumb and it needs to stop.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

 

As for Rhino Prime with Vanguard being as fast as Loki.

 

Why exactly is that a problem?

rhino prime is  more durable than loki and his skills serve another purpose but are about on par. the amount of things loki trades for his speed is higher than the amount of things rhino prime trades for his speed, it's overall hitpoints for loki while it's -5% powerstrength (calculated of basepower) for rhino prime

[Rakosta_Kai]

I don't think Nova should have that CC to be honest. Vauban has low personal defenses as a result of his defensive powers.

I was directly quoting the OP who was stating these two frame's main strengths as a whole (damage and cc), and I was claiming that they have these strengths because they have drawbacks that suit these strengths. Rhino doesn't have drawbacks to his strengths (everywhere) anymore.

I'm using Trinity as an icon because she was given to us for free and I haven't changed it since I started playing way back when. I don't see how this has anything to do with the debate. Completely irrelevant.

That wasn't a dig at you... Very few people have just one frame, I don't know you or what frames you run around the game in.

 

Your icon is a Trinity couple that with Loki that have been posting, Vauban, and Nova and you have the God Tier frames in the game.

All of whom are making complaints because a frame that doesn't scale anywhere near as well has a helmet that makes him run faster.

 

If you can't see that irony in that I can't do any more to help you find it.

[Zarozian]

rhino has 150 baseshields and 100 basehealth along with 190 armor which results in 38,8% damage mitigation- his running speed is at 1,25 with the vanguard helmet at the price of 5% powerstrength (additive malus). he got a skill to absorb damage which grants immunity to cc. he got the best allround damage buff in the game. he got an average cc skill, freezing entire rooms for 8 seconds, unaffected by power duration. his stats are strong and you need to press 2 when iron skin is down and 4 when you're overwhelmed. press 3 if built in when you got spare energy. you don't need to put thought into it.

 

vauban has 75 baseshields and 100 basehealth. his helmets suck. his running speed is at 1,0. vaubans abilities make up for his weak stats, but only if you put some thought into using them.

Zephyr has base Shields 150 and base Health 150 along with 1.15 base speed with only 15 armor, which isn't even needed due to her incredible mobility and immunity from projectile attacks and ability to dodge melee attacks.

 

You also forget that Rhino doesn't have a large energy pool. He can't spam his third ability or his CC unless hes built that way.

 

8 seconds does not increase with duration.

 

Valkyr has 50 base shields and 100 base health, AND HER HELMETS DON'T DO A DAMN THING!

 

Her base speed is 1.1 and her Armor makes up for her lack of shields, and her abilities make up for everything else.

 

Rhino has Iron Skin. Which makes up for his lack of armor.

 

Rhino's strengths lie in the fact that he's innately durable, can deal with the majority of the game's content by stomping them out of existence, can make himself immune to CC, can perma CC whole rooms of enemies, can buff his and his allies damage, and now he's fast. 

Vauban's drawbacks come into effect if his energy isn't managed properly, and he has no offensive capabilities like Rhino does. He doesn't have the raw stats that Rhino does in the case that he doesn't have his abilities to use.

Again, Rhino is a frame that has a good portion of every frame's strength at the cost of his speed. Arguing that Vauban (a pure CC frame) has more CC than him; therefore Rhino is balanced-- isn't very compelling.

Arguing that Valkyr, a melee frame that's built on the concept of HP tanking at the cost of her shields and team effectiveness, has more armor than Rhino is also not very compelling.

Rhino has a good portion of itself and only itself and no other frame.

 

His skills have perfect utility, not as great as Vaubans, but it wouldn't be Rhino if it were, which was what the DE has aimed for in all Warframes.

 

Valkyr has Hysteria, she doesn't need that armor to tank, and she especially does not need shields.

 

 

 

speed isn't necessarily important to complete their rules, but it grants them advantages over other frames. loki trades durability for it while rhino trades nothing for it. and right now rhino prime and loki are tied for the fastest frame, things not implemented yet are not really something to base an argument on.

Speed isn't necessarily a benefactor or a draw back in any and all warframes, and it does not grant them advantages over other frames because we're not trying to make a warframe better than another one in its area.

 

If we wanted to do that, we would of given Rhino Invisibility, Switch Teleport, and Decoy, while making all his other stats higher than Loki.

 

So right now it's not about being the fastest frame, but what advantages does being faster give you over other frames?

 

And why exactly is that a problem?

 

[Zarozian]

rhino prime is  more durable than loki and his skills serve another purpose but are about on par. the amount of things loki trades for his speed is higher than the amount of things rhino prime trades for his speed, it's overall hitpoints for loki while it's -5% powerstrength (calculated of basepower) for rhino prime

Yeah but Loki is more stealthy than Rhino. 

 

And he can turn invisible and lose all aggro and stay invisible forever without ever getting hit once, while Iron Skin attracts all aggro.and doesn't last long after tanking damage.

[HolidayPi3]

 

 

Rhino has a good portion of itself and only itself and no other frame.

 

His skills have perfect utility, not as great as Vaubans, but it wouldn't be Rhino if it were, which was what the DE has aimed for in all Warframes.

 

Valkyr has Hysteria, she doesn't need that armor to tank, and she especially does not need shields.

 

Sigh, we're arguing in circles here. Rhino has a good portion of every frame's STRENGTHS. That is to say he has very good damage, CC, durability, and now speed. Most frames are balanced by being good at 1 or 2 of those things at the detriment of another. Rhino is good at ALL of those things. And that's what I've been saying. And the only counter argument I've seen is 

"Yeah but x CC oriented frame has better CC than Rhino" Because they were created for the sole purpose of delivering CC and that's ALL.

"Yeah but HP tank frame has more armor than Rhino" Because you need armor to HP tank. And Valkyr has AMPLE drawbacks to justify her invincibility. Even then, many Valkyr players want the invincibility removed because they see it as a limiter for the damage they want her to do. Because they want to keep her BALANCED.

Don't argue that "Rhino doesn't have as much armor as Valkyr," and then turn around and say "Oh but that armor is useless to Valkyr anyways." And also forget all the drawbacks that come along with playing Valkyr.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

i'm tired of arguing, you don't want to understand it i guess. also, stack up 75% effective power efficiency, grants you 32 seconds stun for 100 energy used, without a target cap. you can increase the cc duration of his stomp by decreasing the power used and therefore the amount of stomps you can use.

 

because we're not trying to make a warframe better than another one in its area.

one of loki's areas is being fast for now, you know. still rhino prime is just as good as him at that while being better at even more things.

Edited March 12, 2014 by MortalSin

[Zarozian]

Sigh, we're arguing in circles here. Rhino has a good portion of every frame's STRENGTHS. That is to say he has very good damage, CC, durability, and now speed. Most frames are balanced by being good at 1 or 2 of those things at the detriment of another. Rhino is good at ALL of those things. And that's what I've been saying. And the only counter argument I've seen is 

"Yeah but x CC oriented frame has better CC than Rhino" Because they were created for the sole purpose of delivering CC and that's ALL.

"Yeah but HP tank frame has more armor than Rhino" Because you need armor to HP tank. And Valkyr has AMPLE drawbacks to justify her invincibility. Even then, many Valkyr players want the invincibility removed because they see it as a limiter for the damage they want her to do. Because they want to keep her BALANCED.

Don't argue that "Rhino doesn't have as much armor as Valkyr," and then turn around and say "Oh but that armor is useless to Valkyr anyways." And also forget all the drawbacks that come along with playing Valkyr.

The fact that the argument is going in circles and the fact that you are able to argue back and forth with me, is proof that everything is balanced since you have started contradicting things in your statements.

 

Don't argue that other frames aren't as fast as Rhino Prime with Vanguard helmet.

 

Don't argue that other frames abilities can't deal damage like Nova's abilities.

 

Don't argue that other frames don't have as much armor as Frost and Rhino.

 

Don't argue that Rhino isn't as tanky as Trinity or Valkyr.

 

Accept everything as it is, Holiday. 

 

Being as fast as Loki isn't game breaking. It's not like we're taking away Loki's speed.

 

This doesn't affect any other warframe other than Rhino. So unless you main or play a Rhino, this doesn't really concern you.

[Zarozian]

i'm tired of arguing, you don't want to understand it i guess. also, stack up 75% effective power efficiency, grants you 32 seconds stun for 100 energy used, without a target cap. you can increase the cc duration of his stomp by decreasing the power used and therefore the amount of stomps you can use.

 

one of loki's areas is being fast for now, you know. still rhino prime is just as good as him at that while being better at even more things.

Oh no I do.

 

I'm just using the same argument you are using against you, to see if you understand what I understand.

 

Loki's area is being fast. But not the fastest.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Zarozian

[Rakosta_Kai]

Speed offers no advantages at all...

Especially not now, with the new electrical hazards.

 

If it's broken DE will fix it... 

Regardless, I'll still be rocking my Thrak helmet as Prime looks darn good in it

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

Loki's area is being fast. But not the fastest.

it is, he's the counterpart to rhino, lowest hitpoints and fastest speed versus highest hitpoints and lowest speed... that's different now tho

[Zarozian]

Speed offers no advantages at all...

Especially not now, with the new electrical hazards.

 

If it's broken DE will fix it... 

Regardless, I'll still be rocking my Thrak helmet as Prime looks darn good in it

And the fact that they aren't fixing that 0.1 extra speed that Rhino Prime has or anything else means it is not a problem.

 

However things that grant invincibility like how Frost and Rhino's Iron Skin worked in the past.

 

Will be nerfed eventually just like Rhino's Iron Skin and Frost's Snow Globe.

 

I'm looking at you Trinity users.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

 

 

around 0:19-0:22 on both videos. it's even in their official warframe describtion. and capslock doesn't make the things you write right.

[Zarozian]

So this is what this nerf garbage is really about.

 

Just because people think someone is a certain way, they should be a certain way.

 

-1 For society.

[Zarozian]

 

 

around 0:19-0:22 on both videos. it's even in their official warframe describtion. and capslock doesn't make the things you write right.

It's not set in stone mortal. Those videos are out dated. Iron Skin doesn't even look like that anymore.

 

These videos will not save you.

 

Now where does it say Loki is the fastest?

 

It clearly stated that Rhino can survive alone, or become the cornerstone of every squad. Which he still is and Loki is still the trickster who outsmarts the enemies.

 

Now where did it say they are counterparts? 

 

Master Race has a counter part?

Edited March 12, 2014 by Zarozian

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

So this is what this "rhino prime is fine" garbage is really about.

 

Just because there is a major inbalance in favor of yourself, you think it's fine.

 

-1 for you (and the rhinoe prime is fine crowd)

 

EDIT: i'm done arguing with you, i know that you are not willing to make a compromise, all you care about is your favorite frame. have a nice day

Edited March 12, 2014 by MortalSin

[Monster-T]

Zarozian: Why are you defending Rhino Prime's runspeed that much? Why are you not able to understand that Rhino is classified as a Tank? Why are you not understand that a warframe with so great tools like Rhino should need a drawback?
I really cant understand your opinion - really.