What If?

[(PSN)Judgment2007]

Wasn't Nemesis a "Warframe" before Hayden Tenno got infected?  It's been a while since I played Dark Sector, but wasn't he approached by Nemesis (basically in the Nyx armor) at or near the beginning of the game?  If so, she would be the first Tenno.

[NevanChambers]

Hayden didnt have any of the powers or kinds of power that the current Tenno have. It possible that the exsisting Tenno were the ones forced into the void where their powers were granted. This is the simplest explanation that explains the appearant discrepancy. Also the Excalibur entry could make reference to the first warframe and not the first Tenno, as it not specifically stated as such.

Wasn't Nemesis a "Warframe" before Hayden Tenno got infected? It's been a while since I played Dark Sector, but wasn't he approached by Nemesis (basically in the Nyx armor) at or near the beginning of the game? If so, she would be the first Tenno.

Depends if we wish to use Tenno as shorthand for technocyte infected but not hive mind humans, then yes. However it more likely means members of the clan or whatever started by Hayden given that Tenno is his surname. Nemesis would definately not have been a part of that. Sort of the square rectangle thing. Edited March 26, 2014 by NevanChambers

[OniDax]

I think Excalibur is only said to be the first. First what, we don't know. But I'm fairly certain that it only means that Excalibur was the first of the Orokin Tenno. And we can't definitively say anything beyond that.

 

What I think is that these Tenno, like Hayden Tenno (if he's still a part of the lore), were infected with the Technocyte virus (to anyone who thinks Technocyte isn't mentioned in the game, you're wrong). I also think that during Hayden Tenno's time, those who were infected by and survived the Technocyte Virus were called Tenno, such that in the Orokin era, being Tenno isn't saying that these are emperors, like the meaning of the word, or descendants of Hayden Tenno, just that "tenno" has become the term/classification used to describe those who survive being infected by Technocyte.

 

Certainly not a clan that Hayden Tenno started. These children who ended up on the Zariman (yes, they're most likely the Tenno) weren't a part of some clan. It's clear that the Orokin purposed them to don warframes and fight. It's clear that the Orokin were the ones who turned to "the old ways. Gun and blade." So no, they weren't some warrior-ninja clan started by Hayden Tenno.

Edited March 26, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Morec0]

You must realise that the info given in warframe about the Tennos' past is shrouded in mystery for a reason.

 

The tenno themselves aren't supposed to know how they came about. They don;t question it. They were created in the void, a place where physics and laws of nature bend regularly, and the Orokin designed them to know only to kill their enemies and follow orders.

 

The Orokin Void and the Tenno are the only two reliable sources of information on the origin of the Tenno in Warframe's story. However, because neither can explain themselves or be explained by anyone in this time (at this stage all other information has destroyed through years of war, erradication and separation of the remaining surviving factions), the past history of Warframe is uncertain.

 

However, after Dark Sector, some things (for the player, not the characters in the game) are supposed to be assumed: Hayden Tenno was the first Tenno (if not the creator of the first Tenno) and the Orokin empire was made either after his dissapearance or he created it. Hell, even the infested existed in Dark Sector, and don't forget the influence of the Glaive in Warframe.

 

It may not be confirmed, but you cant say that Dark Sector definitely isn't canon. It wouldn't make sense.

 

Just because the Tenno don't know their past doesn't mean they're immediately connected to Hayden Tenno. As I already said: they got their powers from the Void, not from Technocyte like Hayden did. They were children that were sent there as an experiment. Hayden Tenno is not mentioned, aside from the similarities in appearance (and the occasional name) that show up in Warframe -hallmarks of it being a spiritual successor- there is nothing that strongly ties them together at all.  Even IF they're in the same canon, and I wont deny the idea they may be, they are SO far removed that it doesn't really matter. Hence the Tenno of Warframe and Hayden Tenno of Dark Sector become two separate things.

 

Lore may change to reflect your opinion, but at this time you're basing everything off of conjecture.

 

 

I think Excalibur is only said to be the first. First what, we don't know. But I'm fairly certain that it only means that Excalibur was the first of the Orokin Tenno. And we can't definitively say anything beyond that.

 

What I think is that these Tenno, like Hayden Tenno (if he's still a part of the lore), were infected with the Technocyte virus (to anyone who thinks Technocyte isn't mentioned in the game, you're wrong). I also think that during Hayden Tenno's time, those who were infected by and survived the Technocyte Virus were called Tenno, such that in the Orokin era, being Tenno isn't saying that these are emperors, like the meaning of the word, or descendants of Hayden Tenno, just that "tenno" has become the term/classification used to describe those who survive being infected by Technocyte.

 

Given that all the Tenno seem to have been created at the same time - I'm not convinced that ALL the children on the ship in Ember's lore became Embers - I think they're referring to Warframes. And, again, Technocyte argument doesn't hold water: they got their power from the Void, not the virus. MAYBE the virus will play into them somehow with future revealed lore, but at the time being I don't see how people are drawing this conclusion.

[IANOBW]

Hence the Tenno of Warframe and Hayden Tenno of Dark Sector become two separate things.

 

Yet you can't deny that Hayden Tenno was the influence for the Tenno in Warframe. They may be separate different things, but they are linked.

[-Pearl-]

Well, I do think the Lotus is Orokin.

That window is in the Void, all over it. Notice how it's the same as in Lotus' video feed.

[Morec0]

Yet you can't deny that Hayden Tenno was the influence for the Tenno in Warframe. They may be separate different things, but they are linked.

 

Yes, but not through Lore. He influenced them in a meta aspect - DE looking back at him and what he was meant to be, taking his surname, the look of his power suit, and recycling them with new information to create a brand new story - either in a new universe, which makes Dark Sector's events irrelevant, or far enough into the future that (unless further information is revealed) Dark Sector's events become irrelevant.

[Morec0]

 

Well, I do think the Lotus is Orokin.

That window is in the Void, all over it. Notice how it's the same as in Lotus' video feed.

 

Can't lie, though, it IS some interesting evidence.

[OniDax]

 

Well, I do think the Lotus is Orokin.

That window is in the Void, all over it. Notice how it's the same as in Lotus' video feed.

 

 

What's so tin foil about the background in that "window" being the same as the Lotus? What's so tin foil about the Lotus being adorned with gold, like other Orokin stuff, and how Orokin stuff is the only stuff that has such gold in this game?

[OniDax]

Just because the Tenno don't know their past doesn't mean they're immediately connected to Hayden Tenno. As I already said: they got their powers from the Void, not from Technocyte like Hayden did. They were children that were sent there as an experiment. Hayden Tenno is not mentioned, aside from the similarities in appearance (and the occasional name) that show up in Warframe -hallmarks of it being a spiritual successor- there is nothing that strongly ties them together at all.  Even IF they're in the same canon, and I wont deny the idea they may be, they are SO far removed that it doesn't really matter. Hence the Tenno of Warframe and Hayden Tenno of Dark Sector become two separate things.

 

Lore may change to reflect your opinion, but at this time you're basing everything off of conjecture.

 

 

 

Given that all the Tenno seem to have been created at the same time - I'm not convinced that ALL the children on the ship in Ember's lore became Embers - I think they're referring to Warframes. And, again, Technocyte argument doesn't hold water: they got their power from the Void, not the virus. MAYBE the virus will play into them somehow with future revealed lore, but at the time being I don't see how people are drawing this conclusion.

 

What? I'm saying they're the Tenno. Not that they are all Embers. Not only that, but DE has the Lephantis, the infested boss, saying that the Tenno are like the Infested. They wouldn't put that in there if it weren't true. They're not putting the limited lore that they've got in the game just to mislead people. The ONLY question that needs to be asked is not whether or not the Tenno are the result of Technocyte - they are. The question is where does Technocyte come from. And that answer is most likely the Void. It's known that the Orokin experimented with Technocyte - Lotus says as much about Lephantis. It's known that the Tenno get their powers from the Void. It's most likely that it originates from the Void, and that the current infestation (and the infesting nature of the Infested) comes from Orokin manipulation.

 

What we do know is this: Tenno got their powers from the Void. Orokin experimented with and manipulated Technocyte. We absolutely do not know if Technocyte is or isn't involved at this point, because we do not know the origins of Technocyte in this. There are hints that they are the result of Technocyte, mainly due to Lephantis' (formerly J3 Golem's) taunts.

 

I'll say this. I'm pretty sure that the Warframe history of Hayden Tenno, if he still exists (he could just be excalibur in warframe), is a retcon of Dark Sector, closer in line to the original Dark Sector concept.

[Morec0]

What? I'm saying they're the Tenno. Not that they are all Embers. Not only that, but DE has the Lephantis, the infested boss, saying that the Tenno are like the Infested. They wouldn't put that in there if it weren't true. They're not putting the limited lore that they've got in the game just to mislead people. The ONLY question that needs to be asked is not whether or not the Tenno are the result of Technocyte - they are. The question is where does Technocyte come from. And that answer is most likely the Void. It's known that the Orokin experimented with Technocyte - Lotus says as much about Lephantis. It's known that the Tenno get their powers from the Void. It's most likely that it originates from the Void, and that the current infestation (and the infesting nature of the Infested) comes from Orokin manipulation.

 

What we do know is this: Tenno got their powers from the Void. Orokin experimented with and manipulated Technocyte. We absolutely do not know if Technocyte is or isn't involved at this point, because we do not know the origins of Technocyte in this. There are hints that they are the result of Technocyte, mainly due to Lephantis' (formerly J3 Golem's) taunts.

 

I'll say this. I'm pretty sure that the Warframe history of Hayden Tenno, if he still exists (he could just be excalibur in warframe), is a retcon of Dark Sector, closer in line to the original Dark Sector concept.

 

I'm not convinced that Hayden Tenno exists in Warframe (at least in the means you're saying he is), but that's unrelated to what you're calling me out on:

 

You said "First what, we don't know [regardless Excalibur]" - I was just saying that, given it's most likely all Tenno were created at the same time, Excalibur was most likely the first Warframe to be built.

 

And Lephantis COULD be referring to the fact that he's an ancient collection of infested creatures dating back to the Orokin Era, which could very well mean he's got some Human/Orokin (and by result: Tenno) in him as well. And it's that shared (albeit consumed by him) flesh that he's talking about. At least, in my opinion.

[NevanChambers]

 

Certainly not a clan that Hayden Tenno started. These children who ended up on the Zariman (yes, they're most likely the Tenno) weren't a part of some clan. It's clear that the Orokin purposed them to don warframes and fight. It's clear that the Orokin were the ones who turned to "the old ways. Gun and blade." So no, they weren't some warrior-ninja clan started by Hayden Tenno.

 

I liked everything else you said cause you preceded it with "I think" This you state as fact. How does the lore in embers entry state that the children were not kidnapped from a warrior culture? The OROKIN turned to the old ways the Gun and Blade, it doesn't say that the method that they used wasn't to employ a clan of technocyte resistant warriors who already knew the old ways and then twist them with void exposure to give them greater powers than they possessed before hand.

[OniDax]

I liked everything else you said cause you preceded it with "I think" This you state as fact. How does the lore in embers entry state that the children were not kidnapped from a warrior culture? The OROKIN turned to the old ways the Gun and Blade, it doesn't say that the method that they used wasn't to employ a clan of technocyte resistant warriors who already knew the old ways and then twist them with void exposure to give them greater powers than they possessed before hand.

 

Fair point. Going back to the website, it does say the Tenno were the descendants of an ancient race of warriors on earth, so in that case they would be descendants of Hayden Tenno. So then, given that Hayden Tenno didn't have the powers (besides creating a glaive) that the Tenno have, is it possible that the Void interacting with the Technocyte gave them powers? I guess I'm not sure whether this race of ancients warriors were already infected with Technocyte, or if they get infected through the Orokin's methods. I still think they're meant to be infected though. Really hope DE clears this up.

[NevanChambers]

Fair point. Going back to the website, it does say the Tenno were the descendants of an ancient race of warriors on earth, so in that case they would be descendants of Hayden Tenno. So then, given that Hayden Tenno didn't have the powers (besides creating a glaive) that the Tenno have, is it possible that the Void interacting with the Technocyte gave them powers? I guess I'm not sure whether this race of ancients warriors were already infected with Technocyte, or if they get infected through the Orokin's methods. I still think they're meant to be infected though. Really hope DE clears this up.

I've always maintained exactly what you are suggesting specifically the powers being a result of the interaction between the technocyte and whatever is in the void. I kind of envisioned an ancient tradition where the children are intentionally infected by an elder as a rite of passage. This would weed out those who didn't have the congenital analgesia and over time would ensure all of the Tenno clan would have that trait breed true. I also in another thread linked that to the betrayal of the Orokin. In which the infested being used as a weapon by the Orokin was unknown to the Tenno and their finding out that their ancient enemy was allowed (or even encouraged) to spread was what led them to destroy the empire. Of course this is speculation and could be WAAAAAAAAY off I just like the ring of it.

I too hope DE clears some things up even if it just shows I'm dead wrong. I'd rather be corrected than continue trying to wade through this mud with too little info and too much speculation being waved about as fact.

 

Edit: went to look for that other thread, It was on reddit. I wrote it like a story so it's kind of dramatic and states things that are conjecture as fact but if people are interested I can post it here. 

Edited March 26, 2014 by NevanChambers