The Problem Isn't Just Fleeting Expertise

[Boondorl]

So, there's a large thread going on right now about Fleeting Expertise. While I agree that Fleeting is OP, I think now is a better time than ever to get the elephant out of the room:

 

Corrupted mods are overpowered.

 

It's true. They really are. The ones for weapons could use some slight number tweaks, but the ones for Warframes are just embarrassingly overpowered. Corrupted mods were only meant to be good when stacked, yet most of them are actually better than their originals when alone. What gives?

 

Yeah, I know someone's gonna get mad at this thread. I know this community is against nerfing. But it has to happen sometimes. Whether we like it or not, PvE games still need balance if they are to remain interesting. Playing God is only fun for so long.

 

So, what's the problem?

 

I think it's obvious. Blind Rage, Narrow Minded, Fleeting Expertise, Overextended. These mods all give way too much benefit to be justifiable. The only arguably balanced one is Overextended. Even then, its benefit is way too high. The fact that corrupted mods require other corrupted mods to balance themselves is also ludicrous.

 

Blind Rage/Narrow Minded - These suffer from massive imbalance. Even when at rank 5, they still give more than their originals. 24% more. This goes entirely against the idea that they're supposed to be stacked. The downside at these ranks can be countered by the regular mods, and for the most part aren't even that big of penalties. Combined with the fact that they're rank 10, they alone have the ability to trivialize entire game content.

 

Fleeting Expertise - This one is so close, but simply gives too much efficiency. Unfortunately, power duration doesn't seem to affect spammable moves, meaning it's a very powerful tool for frames like Rhino and Nova.

 

Overextended - Gives too much range. Granted, the -60% power is very strong, and can arguably balance this mod given the fact the regular mod cannot do this.

 

The solution

 

Blind Rage and Narrow Minded should be brought down to rank 5s. Honestly, rank 10 mods have little to no place in this game. I have no idea why they continue to put them in. Going beyond rank 5 can be tough, but that's not an excuse to trivialize game content. Legendaries are hard to craft in Guild Wars 2 as well, but that doesn't mean they can serve as an "I win" button.

 

Along with being rank 5s, they should only give +45% -30% at max. While the penalty doesn't seem to scale with the upside, we'll also be changing Streamline. Streamline will now give +45% at max instead of +30%. This means this mod (along with Stretch for Narrow Minded) can be used to cancel out the penalty, while still giving a slight +15% boost to make it feel not wasted. This change makes it more comparable to how the weapon corrupted mods are balanced.

 

Fleeting Expertise should be dropped down to +45% -30% at max as well. Continuity should see the same increase Streamline saw, and should reside at +45% at max. Constitution should also be changed to give +30% at max, which is only a slight boost, but looks a lot better than the current +28%. Along with Streamline, the max will still be 90% between it and Fleeting. The cap on efficiency, however, should still remain at 75%.

 

Overextended should be changed to +45% -30% at max. Intensify should have its cost reduced to 9, and give +45% at max to counter this penalty while still giving a boost. This also puts it in-line with the other mods.

 

Summary

 

Blind Rage: Now only 5 ranks. +45% Power -30% Efficiency at max rank.

 

Narrow Minded: Now only 5 ranks. +45% Duration -30% Range at max rank.

 

Fleeting Expertise: +45% Efficiency -30% Duration at max rank.

 

Overextended: +45% Range -30% Power at max rank.

 

Intensify: Now only costs 9 at max. +45% Power at max rank.

 

Continuity: +45% Duration at max rank.

 

Constitution: +30% Duration at max rank.

 

Streamline: +45% Efficiency at max rank.

 

The result

 

With the regular mods getting buffed to be more useful when alone, and corrupted mods having their benefits and penalties reduced, the game will be in a much more balanced state. Fleeting will no longer be mandatory, but optional. Corrupted mods will no longer need other corrupted mods to balance themselves. The overall power will still be high, high enough to tackle any current content DE can throw out (that isn't ridiculously long survival and defense), but won't reach a cap that will completely trivialize gameplay.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Boondorl

[Psychosist]

I'm okay with this.

 

+1

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

Fleeting Expertise is seen as over powered because it quite literally gives you the ability to spam ANY ultimate at a very low cost. 

 

MANY frames can use this strategy and it is VERY EFFECTIVE. 

 

 

 

I don't agree with the idea of removing rank 10 rare mods. Adding Fleeting Expertise to the list of rank 10 mods, maybe, but gaining the benifits from a rank 10 mods should be as hard as they are rewarding.

[1lusion]

I'm perfectly fine with corrupted mods and I think builds are good with the right combinations.

 

Well I don't think you would see Fleeting Expertise on a Loki or a Frost duration build now would you?

Edited April 9, 2014 by 1lusion

[Boondorl]

I don't agree with the idea of removing rank 10 rare mods. Adding Fleeting Expertise to the list of rank 10 mods, maybe, but gaining the benifits from a rank 10 mods should be as hard as they are rewarding.

 

My problem is that it's not hard, only rewarding. Farming fusion cores is a grind, I won't argue with this, but the stats rank 10s give are a little ludicrous. +99% power is huge. What should determine the strength is not the journey to get it, but how difficult it actually is to use. Heavy Caliber, for instance, gives the same benefit Serration does, but also has a huge accuracy penalty. This makes aiming for the head and ranges more difficult, and generally you may see some loss in ammo efficiency. Heavy Cal requires you to get closer, which isn't an option on some weapons. This is what makes it balanced. The accuracy penalty is currently not counterable.

 

Blind Rage is countered by Efficiency, which we have 2 mods for, both of which are already used in almost everyone's build already. There's not much of a real downside there. You're still getting +35% Efficiency in the end.

[WhisperByte]

Well I don't think you would see Fleeting Expertise on a Loki

Depends on a build. Fleeting expertise on a solo Loki wouldn't really work well cause you need all that invisibility. But on a team oriented defense/survival built Loki Fleeting Expertise is really useful

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

My problem is that it's not hard, only rewarding. Farming fusion cores is a grind, I won't argue with this, but the stats rank 10s give are a little ludicrous. +99% power is huge. What should determine the strength is not the journey to get it, but how difficult it actually is to use. Heavy Caliber, for instance, gives the same benefit Serration does, but also has a huge accuracy penalty. This makes aiming for the head and ranges more difficult, and generally you may see some loss in ammo efficiency. Heavy Cal requires you to get closer, which isn't an option on some weapons. This is what makes it balanced. The accuracy penalty is currently not counterable.

 

Blind Rage is countered by Efficiency, which we have 2 mods for, both of which are already used in almost everyone's build already. There's not much of a real downside there. You're still getting +35% Efficiency in the end.

So you think spending who knows how many cores and ~1.5 million credits is not hard enough.. huh.

 

I believe the problem is people can too easily obtain these mods via trading. I never liked trading.

[Boondorl]

So you think spending who knows how many cores and ~1.5 million credits is not hard enough.. huh.

 

Refer to my Guild Wars 2 analogy.

 

As for trading, I'm ok with it, just not for plat. Trading for plat in a game like this is a disaster. They probably should've just taken the D3 route in all honesty.

[WANDERER93]

Those mods arent overpowered, just make "powers" or "skills" of warframes viable to use, maybe some powers are a bit powerful but with the right build , also it cost a lot of credits and cores to make it high rank, corrupted mods also make players to decide 1 build, you cant just have everything maxed, you have to choose power duration, strength and so on that make you strong in a way and weak in other.
trading for plat:
many people maybe wont play without that option, i wouldn´t with just 2 warframe spots, the only way is to buy platinum and some people just wont pay for it, but people that has plat can afford a trade and warframe will catch or make gamers stay playing.

sorry for my dumb english 

Edited April 9, 2014 by WANDERER93

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

Refer to my Guild Wars 2 analogy.

 

As for trading, I'm ok with it, just not for plat. Trading for plat in a game like this is a disaster. They probably should've just taken the D3 route in all honesty.

Sigh.. If you think these mods are nothing but rewarding perhaps you should also fight against Prime trading.

 

The fact is this game is too easy with trading. No one without at least 1-2 weeks of farming would not have a rank 10 rare mod such as Blind Rage.

[Nagisawa]

Yeah, I know someone's gonna get mad at this thread. I know this community is against nerfing. 

Seriously?  We are?  Have you seen what this community have done to the Wraith weapons?  The Primes?  'Against'?

 

I've not seen any community that is so PRO-NERF than DE's Warframe forums.  So no, you're going to get more people agreeing with you than argue against.  I have no say in this because I don't have any and frankly, I'm not likely to get any.

 

But to claim this forum is 'Anti-Nerf' is like saying the moon is Limburger Cheese.

[Boondorl]

Seriously?  We are?  Have you seen what this community have done to the Wraith weapons?  The Primes?  'Against'?

 

I've not seen any community that is so PRO-NERF than DE's Warframe forums.  So no, you're going to get more people agreeing with you than argue against.  I have no say in this because I don't have any and frankly, I'm not likely to get any.

 

But to claim this forum is 'Anti-Nerf' is like saying the moon is Limburger Cheese.

 

Well, ironically I still got someone mad, but at the most mundane thing in my post. Have you tried actually reading the rest of it? You might find it more interesting.

 

I suggest you check any thread about Boltor Prime, Soma, or hell, even the Fleeting one going on still. The first page and a half are trolls laughing, and others flaming saying it doesn't need a nerf. This community is very bipolar about what needs to be nerfed. In one thread you'll see people agreeing that X needs to be nerfed, then when you make a thread about X, everyone claims it's fine and doesn't need one. Meanwhile, the shotguns are incredibly underpowered and I still see arguments that they'll be OP without fall-off.

 

It seems quite a few people would rather have weapons (mainly rifles) buffed to unreasonably high levels rather than just balancing the unreasonably high level weapons. This community is very anti-nerf, and is way too buff happy. This is power creep in its truest form.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Boondorl

[HellEnforcer]

 I can't say much on this. 

 As a matter of fact, I do no equip any corrupted mod precisely because the downside is pretty much the second attribute I am looking to upgrade alongside with the good one.

 I guess they were made so you can focus on one part if you are willing to sacrifice another good point. Specially the Power Strength - Range - Duration trio. They are all biting each others tail. I do not really care for Energy Efficiency. 

 I choose nightmare mods over corrupted mods.