Health And Hp Needs Balancing After The Last Hotfix

[Jokyma]

Tanking is the role of Tenno because they are "flip out and kill people" ninjas. They wear black in snowy environments. They charge guys and sword things. Stealth is something pop culture ninjas are very bad at.

Your insistence that the game should completely change because you're obsessed with a specific definition of ninja is depressing as all hell. And I do play stealth games. Turns out most of them are pretty hard to make into MP games, doubly so if those games have random enemy placement and map design.

you get it why i support stealth? what can you do if you only have 100 shield and health? clearing the enemy from cover at first? kill as much as possible without letting them noticing you get me? im not obssesed with stealth gameplay they can be really fun but time consuming. imagine you only have 100 shield and health would you do the same as now charge? you will die in a instance, thats when you fear of dying and using advantage of what you have and thats when you think of ideas to get pass the enemy without dying. now thats challenge

[MJ12]

whats the point of games without challenges? why do game have hard mode or hardcore mode? everyone loves to play those mode because its hard and has a big challenge in it now warframe is like in super easy you can clear the game closed eyes

"Everybody loves to play hard mode or hardcore mode"? Every time you see Achievement stats for games with an Achievement for hard/hardcore mode you see that a tiny minority of gamers has it. Because most people don't play at that difficulty. Because it's supposed to challenge people who are really good at the game. Which isn't everyone. What you seem to be saying is "screw everyone else, nobody cares about them".

And that's just awful. If you want a Hardcore mode ask for THAT don't ask for everyone else to be shafted.

Edited April 1, 2013 by MJ12

[Jokyma]

My caster frames were doing just fine prior to this hotfix, though a bit more reliant on ranged attacks than close quarter combat. They have now moved on to be gods that meander in the middle of rooms while giving everything a handshake prior to chopping them down.

Your argument for zero damage from any frame is invalidated simply by the fact that your guns/sword are capable of dishing out the same damage across all warframes.

The capability to absorb this much damage just makes the game boring for veteran players accustomed to enemy attack patterns and able to avoid the majority of incoming fire. The excess survivability promotes facetanking, Ramboing, and the most unskilled versions of speedrunning; I foresee much crying from newer players about assassination targets on later planets slaughtering teams of Tenno accustomed to facetanking everything in sight.

respect +1 totally agree with you

[TheNYSlice]

I didn't like how things were before: I was having a lot of trouble getting Redirection, and having 150 shields in the harder missions sucked. Anyways it was doable with some work.

Now I have 450 shields...what? These inflated numbers need to go. What is the point of tank-ish warframes if every player is a bullet sponge?

The game was already quite easy, but now it's silly.

Please tone down this stat scaling and remove Vitality / Redirection.

Energy capacity is fine, but now I would make energy orbs rarer to balance things out.

1.You have fully customizable system that you can 1200 shield if you go all-in on that

2. NERF EVERYTHING to S#&$, making everybody 100 shield w/ 100 hps

3. MASSIVE player migration and flooding forum w/ complaints, asking for roll back

4. hotfix new system that allows per-level hp&shield boost

5. New players complain for decrease in difficulty by too much HP.

LOLOL I know it's hard to keep everybody happy but what a way to mess up the game balance!

This is classic case of MMO game getting screwd by poor management decisions.

Saddest part is we still don't know when's the Launch date for this game,

even though 'OPEN BETA' on Steam is pretty much what we have now - sinking ship w/ full of patch holes!

[Jokyma]

"Everybody loves to play hard mode or hardcore mode"? Every time you see Achievement stats for games with an Achievement for hard/hardcore mode you see that a tiny minority of gamers has it. Because most people don't play at that difficulty. Because it's supposed to challenge people who are really good at the game. Which isn't everyone. What you seem to be saying is "screw everyone else, nobody cares about them".

And that's just awful. If you want a Hardcore mode ask for THAT don't ask for everyone else to be shafted.

its not like i don't care about begginer players that can't do that much, its more fun when you fear death instead of like ahh f*** that s*** i can't die, i was a begginer myself few years back, challenge yourself i would say try something you think you can't do that is challenge, challenge never step in if you know you can do it

[Jokyma]

1.You have fully customizable system that you can 1200 shield if you go all-in on that

2. NERF EVERYTHING to S#&$, making everybody 100 shield w/ 100 hps

3. MASSIVE player migration and flooding forum w/ complaints, asking for roll back

4. hotfix new system that allows per-level hp&shield boost

5. New players complain for decrease in difficulty by too much HP.

LOLOL I know it's hard to keep everybody happy but what a way to mess up the game balance!

This is classic case of MMO game getting screwd by poor management decisions.

Saddest part is we still don't know when's the Launch date for this game,

even though 'OPEN BETA' on Steam is pretty much what we have now - sinking ship w/ full of patch holes!

what he meant is not to change all shields and hp to 100 but to lower them abit to be much easier to die, if players complain about shield being too low you obviously know that the player is a noob without skills

[MJ12]

My caster frames were doing just fine prior to this hotfix, though a bit more reliant on ranged attacks than close quarter combat. They have now moved on to be gods that meander in the middle of rooms while giving everything a handshake prior to chopping them down.

Your argument for zero damage from any frame is invalidated simply by the fact that your guns/sword are capable of dishing out the same damage across all warframes.

The capability to absorb this much damage just makes the game boring for veteran players accustomed to enemy attack patterns and able to avoid the majority of incoming fire. The excess survivability promotes facetanking, Ramboing, and the most unskilled versions of speedrunning; I foresee much crying from newer players about assassination targets on later planets slaughtering teams of Tenno accustomed to facetanking everything in sight.

Just prior to this hotfix you wouldn't have had some sort of shield/health mods, would you?

Because the whole point of these changes is to make them optional. Like I said, if your problem is "you're OP with mods now" just don't use them until they get nerfed. If you thought running Pluto with 100/100 shields/health was fun, you aren't a balance point for the game and the only way you'll be satisfied is if they implement difficulty levels (something I fully support) so stop raining on other people's parades and ask for what you want.

[MJ12]

its not like i don't care about begginer players that can't do that much, its more fun when you fear death instead of like ahh f*** that s*** i can't die, i was a begginer myself few years back, challenge yourself i would say try something you think you can't do that is challenge, challenge never step in if you know you can do it

If you aren't getting it yet, challenge is relative. Something easy for you might not be easy for everyone else and vice versa. Stop demanding the game cater solely towards "elite players".

[CaligoIllioneus]

1.You have fully customizable system that you can 1200 shield if you go all-in on that

2. NERF EVERYTHING to S#&$, making everybody 100 shield w/ 100 hps

3. MASSIVE player migration and flooding forum w/ complaints, asking for roll back

4. hotfix new system that allows per-level hp&shield boost

5. New players complain for decrease in difficulty by too much HP.

LOLOL I know it's hard to keep everybody happy but what a way to mess up the game balance!

This is classic case of MMO game getting screwd by poor management decisions.

Saddest part is we still don't know when's the Launch date for this game,

even though 'OPEN BETA' on Steam is pretty much what we have now - sinking ship w/ full of patch holes!

I wouldn't be so drastic.

Its fine that they made a lot of changes, it means they are improving stuff. That's the point of a beta...to play the game, and to complain about what you dislike with well thought arguments so they can read all the feedback and improve the game.

Also, betas (true betas, rather than marketing betas) have a lot of balanciing swings, and these swings usually go from one extreme to another: OP to UP, easy to hard, until it gets it right.

I believe we're in the extreme of "the game is a cakewalk, and the only challenging thing left is the RNG boss".

My caster frames were doing just fine prior to this hotfix, though a bit more reliant on ranged attacks than close quarter combat. They have now moved on to be gods that meander in the middle of rooms while giving everything a handshake prior to chopping them down.

Your argument for zero damage from any frame is invalidated simply by the fact that your guns/sword are capable of dishing out the same damage across all warframes.

The capability to absorb this much damage just makes the game boring for veteran players accustomed to enemy attack patterns and able to avoid the majority of incoming fire. The excess survivability promotes facetanking, Ramboing, and the most unskilled versions of speedrunning; I foresee much crying from newer players about assassination targets on later planets slaughtering teams of Tenno accustomed to facetanking everything in sight.

Agreed completely.

[Jokyma]

Just prior to this hotfix you wouldn't have had some sort of shield/health mods, would you?

Because the whole point of these changes is to make them optional. Like I said, if your problem is "you're OP with mods now" just don't use them until they get nerfed. If you thought running Pluto with 100/100 shields/health was fun, you aren't a balance point for the game and the only way you'll be satisfied is if they implement difficulty levels (something I fully support) so stop raining on other people's parades and ask for what you want.

it will never be balance if advance player uses no shield and health to play with players that uses all of the shield, because its not everyone doing the same thing so its not fair to everyone at all

[FluffyM]

I'm sorry to say this, but I was already getting bored with it not being challenging, now I could just faceroll-grind all day (even more).

I'll reserve judgement until new content, but I'll also reserve my playtime for other games for that time-span.

Lastly, I'd be quite surprised if this didn't turn out to be too much, but I guess you'll find out.

Edited April 1, 2013 by FluffyM

[CaligoIllioneus]

Just prior to this hotfix you wouldn't have had some sort of shield/health mods, would you?

Because the whole point of these changes is to make them optional. Like I said, if your problem is "you're OP with mods now" just don't use them until they get nerfed. If you thought running Pluto with 100/100 shields/health was fun, you aren't a balance point for the game and the only way you'll be satisfied is if they implement difficulty levels (something I fully support) so stop raining on other people's parades and ask for what you want.

I never had Redirection. It never dropped for me. Pluto is very hard, but Sedna with at least one other person is very doable.

The point of the update is to do away with these "essential mods": I agree with that a lot.

The result of the update is that now everything is too easy and these two slots are going to be used for speed mods to rush the incredibly easy, boring missions faster.

I still don't have redirection and currently I'm brokenly overpowered.

[MJ12]

it will never be balance if advance player uses no shield and health to play with players that uses all of the shield, because its not everyone doing the same thing so its not fair to everyone at all

What. Seriously what. You are making no sense at all-a balanced game has players doing different things and doing about as well as each other. Please make a coherent point instead of nonsensical single-sentence proclamations with no basis in reality.

[guymanbrodude]

it will never be balance if advance player uses no shield and health to play with players that uses all of the shield, because its not everyone doing the same thing so its not fair to everyone at all

Everyone doing the same thing is fair to all? Then why don't we all get 500 platinum if a player buys it? Why doesn't everyone get the exact same frame at beginning? Why don't we all get the same mod upon pickup? Why do we even play the game?

Different people, (I know what I'm about to say will give you nightmares) different playstyles. Not everybody plays like you, you don't play like everybody. If I tell you that I like the upgrades and want EVERYBODY to play with these upgrades PLUS mods, would you agree with me simply because I, a SINGLE PERSON, said so? No, you wouldn't, because you don't like it.

[Thelonious]

What to do now with Defense Polarity slots?

hmmm.

Stamina? erk

Shield Recharge? already got Guardian.

hmmm.

[FrostWolf]

The Health upgrades are fine and give your frame a sense of power increasing instead of you hoping for a mod to drop.

Saying it's not difficult... then saying how you could farm/solo/ohko the enemies before the fix implies the Problem isn't the Frame's survivablity but the enemies threat level.

The enemy AI needs to be reworked as Corpus and Grineer factions have very little cohension and do rather stupid things.

Edited April 1, 2013 by FrostWolf

[comeonandslam]

Don't worry everybody, DE balanced it out by changing every boss to lvl 84 Jackal.

[FluffyM]

Ok so this Aprils fools patch was pretty good.

[CaligoIllioneus]

1) The Health upgrades are fine and give your frame a sense of power increasing instead of you hoping for a mod to drop.

2) Saying it's not difficult... then saying how you could farm/solo/ohko the enemies before the fix implies the Problem isn't the Frame's survivablity but the enemies threat level.

3) The enemy AI needs to be reworked as Corpus and Grineer factions have very little cohension and do rather stupid things.

1) Agreed.

2) No. It implies that the game was already easy pre-update (with no redirection in my case, mind you) due to the enemy threat level, as you say...but it just got worse, since now I can do the same things several times better due to every frame -no matter if its tankish, caster, stealth, support or whatever, and regardless of build- becoming a bullet sponge, even without HP and shield mods.

3) I agree, but currently like I said before it doesn't matter if all the Grineers, Corpus and Infested become master tacticians because not only do they die by the thousands but we can soak so much gunfire. Also, what can their AI do to increase their difficulty so much? Take cover? I will simply walk up to them and gun them down.

Form a circle of shield Grineers, filling it with 20 Grinders and a Grineer Commander in the middle waiting to Switch Teleport you? Perhaps.

Edited April 1, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Jokyma]

Everyone doing the same thing is fair to all? Then why don't we all get 500 platinum if a player buys it? Why doesn't everyone get the exact same frame at beginning? Why don't we all get the same mod upon pickup? Why do we even play the game?

Different people, (I know what I'm about to say will give you nightmares) different playstyles. Not everybody plays like you, you don't play like everybody. If I tell you that I like the upgrades and want EVERYBODY to play with these upgrades PLUS mods, would you agree with me simply because I, a SINGLE PERSON, said so? No, you wouldn't, because you don't like it.

you know whats fair? limits. people are able to buy platinum all they want theres no stopping you from buying, you choose to get what frames you want from the start no one is limiting you, you dare to say we all don't get the same drop? what you gonna get a got mode mod while unlucky one get a self destruction mod?

and a balanced game is like not a p2w game that only cashers win. if you want reality let me tell you, flying with a flocks of birds just made you a another bird that no one cares, because you are plain boring you became a clone doing exact same thing as others. you have no ideas of your own just like a robot brain dead.

balance is like using the same weapons with the same stats you can upgrade it to the max for everyone theres a limit thats balance

[CaligoIllioneus]

Please do not go off topic.

The thread is about the game being too easy (or not, depending on your opinion though if you don't agree with me you're a leech osprey) after the last change inflated shields and HP a great deal.

Edited April 1, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[f3llyn]

This thread is depressing. I play the game because I want to wreck faces. If I want a challenge I'll go play chess.

Edited April 1, 2013 by f3llyn

[Jokyma]

update 7.6 just made the frames even closer to gods, i don't get it why you need so much shields and health in the game, when its already so easy to clear

[guymanbrodude]

This thread is depressing. I play the game because I want to wreck faces. If I want a challenge I'll go play chess.

So is our world

[Ferriwind]

Why not be challenged and wreck faces?