Door Heroes

[Rakosta_Kai]

So true. Wish people understood this. So damn annoying to have to go running around checking doors cause of these putzes. Hate them.

Actually... Not really.

Unless you are in an Infested Defense, you are going to have loot all over the place regardless.

 

Fighting in the room is still the best idea, but that doesn't mean you won't go hunting in that room for loot.

 

And for what it's worth... I've found the worst way in the world to encourage a respectful exchange of ideas is to do so with name calling.

[Neverwinterkni]

I would expect a door hero to go into panic mode when he sees the health dropping rapidly. 

If he sees it dropping, and/or cares about it

[Orbister]

If the majority of the community honestly communicated in public games then my time would not have been wasted on this empty thread. It wouldn't exist as the majority of people would already know the solution to this problem. Yet the opposite remains true, and it would appear that this otherwise waste of time was saved by my miraculous advice to your stupid little problem. 

You are welcome, by the way. 

Hahah, you are a piece of work, you think you have resolved the problem...

 

Pad yourself on the back good man, and now go and solve world wide poverty you are wasting your talent in videogame issues.

[Acos]

 you are wasting your talent in videogame issues.

I know. 

By the way, what was your suggestion to the problem again? Be really angry about it? How is that working out for you~

Edited April 21, 2014 by Acos

[Orbister]

I know. 

By the way, what was your suggestion to the problem again? Be really angry about it? How is that working out for you~

My suggestion was to add a visual indicator of affinity similar to the damage multiplier, that shows the current amount of affinity being gained.

 

If you had read the thread you should know it, and you know what is more annoying than door heroes? forum idiots that think they are very smart but they are just not adding anything to the conversation.

[Kalenath]

"People who don't do what I want them to do are selfish!" 

Nice argument. 

 

So...

 

It all about how I want to play then. So if I let the objective die, it isn't MY fault that no one ELSE wanted to protect it. Good to know. It's not like this is a TEAM BASED game or anything. Nope. Solo all the way.

 

'Teamwork makes it so much easier but I wanna have all the stuff myself.' is the ONLY way to play. Good to know.

 

You have changed my mind. I will door hero to my heart's content now just so that when people like YOU complain that we keep failing missions, I can laugh and say I am being selfish just like you.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Kalenath

[rouch3200]

next rule 

[BloodArmoredApostle]

"People who don't do what I want them to do are selfish!" 

Nice argument. 

Sorry, but your thought here isn't a complete thought. You took one part of what someone said and twisted it into another meaning. You didn't ask a question but try to point out some flaw in opinion as if the person is controlling. Nice try, but doesn't work here. 

 

Apply this to another game...Football. If one of the players on the team is so called having fun by fouling other players and is having "fun" and costing the whole team the game. Then, this is acceptable right? After all, he is making the whole team look bad and the poor lad is just having fun. So, everyone else on the team should just avoid him right? Just play around it? Your statement here really doesn't apply. If you wish to twist another's words. Feel free to join CNN daily new report for further instructions.

Edited April 21, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[Etsoree]

If he sees it dropping, and/or cares about it

 

+1

 

Too many hallway heroes simply say "OH I GET CAUGHT UP IN THE MOMENT AND DON'T REALIZE IT'S DYING".

 

Y'know, when it has 2k hp left out of 40k.

[KorbanGado]

Honestly, if they would just make the acquisition system for loot the same as it is for money, I wouldn't even care about doorway heroes. If I'm looking to level, I do solo survivals most the time anyways, so its not like earning affinity is a big deal in my case. 

Having to run all the way to every polar opposite side of the map to pick up everything dropped by each individual door hero after I haven't seen a single enemy when I'm tending to the objective nobody else is worried about can get rather annoying, though, and it's a trend that seems to be on the rise. You ask politely for people to stick together, or something mechanics-wise (don't use the capsule/pillar at 90%!), and 2/5 times I end up being met with hostility for it. Granted, just trying to get past a stage it doesn't matter - but with all the farming being done for stances lately the heroes are coming of as increasingly inconsiderate and rude (thankfully, at least some of them are decent enough to mark stances still).

As stated previously in here though, it's just as easy for me to play solo, or team up with someone I do know (or know how they play) and not deal with the issue. It's the same reason I've never liked PUGs - everyone plays different, and some folks just want to watch the world burn. Well, except in the multiplayer for ME3 (which the craving for led me to this game in the first place). Never once had any issue in that game as far as cooperative players that would still be competitive - of course, you never had to defend something in that for more than one wave.

[Lord.Finster]

The real problem in my opinion is that 'door heroes' behave perfectly sound from a tactical standpoint which has been deeply ingrained into the minds of everybody for decades, which is to make use of choke points when you are outnumbered.

It is simply so much easier to destroy the enemy if they cannot use their numerical advantage against you, even if it means you have to fight alone. This is especially true for warframes that have access to a 'press one button to win' AoE damage/cc effect.

 

Also, all this also ties into the numerical progression balance problem when maxed out players play content that is 'too easy' for them (which they usually do to farm resources or experience). As it turns out, on the highest levels, teamplay is a thing and has to be because all enemies turn into bullet sponges and do insane damage, read outlevel the players.

 

To be productive here are two ways to deal with this problem:

 

1)XP and item/resource pickup is shared across the level regardless of distance.

This allows every teammate to behave exactly as they see tactically fit. It removes the necessity for a team to stick together if content isn't challenging enough and no one is forced to be the 'podsitter'.

Yes, that means leeching xp and loot is easier than before and people can level up without doing anything. However, I think it is still better than to punish players who stick to the objective.

 

2)Tactical reasons to stick to the objective.

Many forms are possible. AI must become smarter and deadlier when breaching chokepoints. Maybe they use sth akin to artillery, a rocket barrage a magnetic proc EMP bomb, stun or blind grenades and generally more agressive tacticts when entering the map. Another solution are sneakier enemies that attack the objective directly and agressively, akin to Flameblades. They might use teleporters, hidden shafts or invisibility to bypass players and directly attack the objective, giving a visual or audial indication of their attack, so vigilant players can react. Also, Lotus might warn us about them.

 

Plz discuss.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Lord.Finster

[YourBusDriver]

The real problem in my opinion is that 'door heroes' behave perfectly sound from a tactical standpoint which has been deeply ingrained into the minds of everybody for decades, which is to make use of choke points when you are outnumbered.

It is simply so much easier to destroy the enemy if they cannot use their numerical advantage against you, even if it means you have to fight alone. This is especially true for warframes that have access to a 'press one button to win' AoE damage/cc effect.

 

Also, all this also ties into the numerical progression balance problem when maxed out players play content that is 'too easy' for them (which they usually do to farm resources or experience). As it turns out, on the highest levels, teamplay is a thing and has to be because all enemies turn into bullet sponges and do insane damage, read outlevel the players.

 

To be productive here are two ways to deal with this problem:

 

1)XP and item/resource pickup is shared across the level regardless of distance.

This allows every teammate to behave exactly as they see tactically fit. It removes the necessity for a team to stick together if content isn't challenging enough and no one is forced to be the 'podsitter'.

Yes, that means leeching xp and loot is easier than before and people can level up without doing anything. However, I think it is still better than to punish players who stick to the objective.

 

2)Tactical reasons to stick to the objective.

Many forms are possible. AI must become smarter and deadlier when breaching chokepoints. Maybe they use sth akin to artillery, a rocket barrage a magnetic proc EMP bomb, stun or blind grenades and generally more agressive tacticts when entering the map. Another solution are sneakier enemies that attack the objective directly and agressively, akin to Flameblades. They might use teleporters, hidden shafts or invisibility to bypass players and directly attack the objective, giving a visual or audial indication of their attack, so vigilant players can react. Also, Lotus might warn us about them.

 

Plz discuss.

 

There are too many problems with unlimited share. It doesn't take into account total carries. As for your proposal of tactical changes - those seem very sound, but could easily become a pain in the a**. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[YourBusDriver]

I suppose for now Warframe is stuck with door heroes.

[YourBusDriver]

Thanks for all the good (intense) discussion everyone! This sure was fun while it lasted.

[SolidSp33d]

I can still slightly tolerate door heroes due to DE letting us equipping only one weapon, so I can just stand near them and leech from damn door hoes. Though if DE ever implemented friendly fire booster, I would pay 100 Plat for a 3-Day Friendly Fire Booster against those door hoes.

 

I was playing a PUB where this one guy decided to afk penta spam right out the door. We constantly told him to get to the pod but he wouldn't budge or respond. One beautiful SOB in the group walked in front of him and jump up just as he fired a penta shot. Thanks to his automated spam he blew himself sky high.

 

He disconnected after we let him bleed out.

 

Our faces when:

 

I will forever regret not having fraps on at the time...but I'm going to try making it happen again. ;3

And seriously, if DE ever slips and somehow we are able to apply ourselves with radiation procs...I'm going hunting for heroes.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[raikien]

 I don't really vouch for ditching your team in defense but.... WOW really? People are joining my T3s for affinity... I feel so insulted I could be leveling my skana, lato and mk1 instead of my full leveled loadout I take to defenses. Apart from affinity...... I understand the resource gain part of the complaints.. but you can't really complain about how others play if your not even sporting your primo gear.. A sorta halfarsed way around this would be to up the time between wave time to 30 seconds or until all four members are within the pod circle radius, this would allow you to go gather up the door hero left drops.

 

Again not agreeing with door heroing got a taste of it the other day the guy was like two entire bleedouts away from the rest of the team way too far away. But on the other side I cannot vouch for those who are leveling their gear in defense. Either way around I have not had many problems with door heros there not much different and often are 4 spammers.

 

A great remedy for this whole thing could have been the survival mode I suggested way back when. Actual survival no time limit no lifesupport the mobs swarm in until you die and die you will. Then honestly both stratgies might work, stick with the team and work together or go it alone and see how far you get.

Edited April 24, 2014 by raikien

[Orbister]

 I don't really vouch for ditching your team in defense but.... WOW really? People are joining my T3s for affinity... I feel so insulted I could be leveling my skana, lato and mk1 instead of my full leveled loadout I take to defenses. Apart from affinity...... I understand the resource gain part of the complaints.. but you can't really complain about how others play if your not even sporting your primo gear.. A sorta halfarsed way around this would be to up the time between wave time to 30 seconds or until all four members are within the pod circle radius, this would allow you to go gather up the door hero left drops.

 

Again not agreeing with door heroing got a taste of it the other day the guy was like two entire bleedouts away from the rest of the team way too far away. But on the other side I cannot vouch for those who are leveling their gear in defense. Either way around I have not had many problems with door heros there not much different and often are 4 spammers.

 

A great remedy for this whole thing could have been the survival mode I suggested way back when. Actual survival no time limit no lifesupport the mobs swarm in until you die and die you will.

Maybe you didnt know, u can re-rank weapons, u do it after u forma'd them, it makes "primo" gear MORE STRONGER, and u can take a "primo" strong weapon to gather affinity for the one in your belt! so u dont really need to use freshly forma'd weapons! isnt it cool?! : D : D :D so, nope, people do not "halfarse" it, they level weapons indirectly : D : D : D.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Orbister

[raikien]

Maybe you didnt know, u can re-rank weapons, u do it after u forma'd them, it makes "primo" gear MORE STRONGER, and u can take a "primo" strong weapon to gather affinity for the one in your belt! so u dont really need to use freshly forma'd weapons! isnt it cool?! : D : D :D so, nope, people do not "halfarse" it, they level weapons indirectly : D : D : D.

Should be a little less hostile and read a little closer. I said "A halfarshed FIX would be to add the 30second timer" and yes I know about forma most of my gear has three or more. It also only takes a few hours to get gear fully leveled on a solo survival rather than bog a high level defense team down.

[Arxiun]

TBH, let them do what they want. If they want to kill, and get exp, then why is it their fault that you're not close enough to get it, or the drops? Just follow them, grab the drops, and go back to cowering by the pod. As frost, I globe the pod every 30 seconds, but for 15 of them I am nowhere near it. I go, kill, check on the pod, then kill some more. I get levels, defend the pod, and have much more fun then being the "You sit this one out" in every action movie, ever.

[Guest]

The real problem in my opinion is that 'door heroes' behave perfectly sound from a tactical standpoint which has been deeply ingrained into the minds of everybody for decades, which is to make use of choke points when you are outnumbered.

It is simply so much easier to destroy the enemy if they cannot use their numerical advantage against you, even if it means you have to fight alone. This is especially true for warframes that have access to a 'press one button to win' AoE damage/cc effect.

 

Also, all this also ties into the numerical progression balance problem when maxed out players play content that is 'too easy' for them (which they usually do to farm resources or experience). As it turns out, on the highest levels, teamplay is a thing and has to be because all enemies turn into bullet sponges and do insane damage, read outlevel the players.

 

To be productive here are two ways to deal with this problem:

 

1)XP and item/resource pickup is shared across the level regardless of distance.

This allows every teammate to behave exactly as they see tactically fit. It removes the necessity for a team to stick together if content isn't challenging enough and no one is forced to be the 'podsitter'.

Yes, that means leeching xp and loot is easier than before and people can level up without doing anything. However, I think it is still better than to punish players who stick to the objective.

 

2)Tactical reasons to stick to the objective.

Many forms are possible. AI must become smarter and deadlier when breaching chokepoints. Maybe they use sth akin to artillery, a rocket barrage a magnetic proc EMP bomb, stun or blind grenades and generally more agressive tacticts when entering the map. Another solution are sneakier enemies that attack the objective directly and agressively, akin to Flameblades. They might use teleporters, hidden shafts or invisibility to bypass players and directly attack the objective, giving a visual or audial indication of their attack, so vigilant players can react. Also, Lotus might warn us about them.

 

Plz discuss.

 

i like these ideas, and i agree with the first principles.  for myself, i don't need jack for materials from void missions...  woohoo alloy plates!  i also don't need affinity.  if i want to level something, there are better ways than in a void team.  in my experience, a single scout, out and about the map, apart from the main team group will greatly thin the enemies faced in a capture or mobile defense mission.  although, it can be done in a variety of ways.  a rhino can run around the other side of a map and just kill everything that spawns around him, doing half the teams damage and leaving the main group to face a pitiful resistance force.  a loki on the other hand can just explore and do a lot of whatever the heck he wants while mobs spawn and then parade their way towards the team at the objective.  This simply strings out the mobs, makes them arrive in a steady stream from a single entrance to the MD room, and they're pretty easy to handle as such.  meanwhile the scout can be opening treasure rooms for the team to loot later.  think about it, they're basically the lone tenno operative you hear about in all your survival missions.  all in all, i think the ai could use a lot of improvements, and the looting system should be fixed.  there's no reason one person should gain a reward in a mission that another doesn't simply bacause they were in the wrong room, didn't notice it, didn't have time to grab it before the defense wave ended.  AFKers should simply be kicked from the mission.  if you think about it, allowing players to share rewards across the map can also open up possibilities for more diverse mission types that require players to split up to tackle divergent objectives simultaneously (think of something better than the spy missions, anything would suffice, really).  honestly, the principle complaints levied against lone wolves are all based on game mechanics (usually looting, or affinity) and not on actual gameplay.  the mechanics are easily fixed if DE actually listens.  it's the gameplay everyone should be more concerned about. 

[Orbister]

Should be a little less hostile and read a little closer. I said "A halfarshed FIX would be to add the 30second timer" and yes I know about forma most of my gear has three or more. It also only takes a few hours to get gear fully leveled on a solo survival rather than bog a high level defense team down.

Should be a little less hostile and read a little closer. I said i (and probably everyone) use a fully ranked weapon to pass affinity INDIRECTLY to an unranked weapon, nobody bogs down anybody or do you? maybe you speak from experience?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Orbister

[Orbister]

TBH, let them do what they want. If they want to kill, and get exp, then why is it their fault that you're not close enough to get it, or the drops? Just follow them, grab the drops, and go back to cowering by the pod. As frost, I globe the pod every 30 seconds, but for 15 of them I am nowhere near it. I go, kill, check on the pod, then kill some more. I get levels, defend the pod, and have much more fun then being the "You sit this one out" in every action movie, ever.

AWH MAH GAWD who is this genius who resolved this very annoying problem?!

 

So if the whole team is not following one single berserker idiot it is their fault for not being close enough to get experience?!

 

You are so right! then let all the door heroes be $&*&*#(%& selfsabotager idiots and the whole team follow him/her around to get the experience! it is THEIR fault after all for staying near the objective they have to defend!

 

What a bunch of silly retards it is ALL OUR FAULT for not following a headless chicken-like moron all around the map! you are in fact brilliant!

 

EVERYONE PLEASE GATHER AROUND BECAUSE THIS MAN HAS THE SOLUTION : D

[Lickity-Split]

TBH, let them do what they want. If they want to kill, and get exp, then why is it their fault that you're not close enough to get it, or the drops? Just follow them, grab the drops, and go back to cowering by the pod. As frost, I globe the pod every 30 seconds, but for 15 of them I am nowhere near it. I go, kill, check on the pod, then kill some more. I get levels, defend the pod, and have much more fun then being the "You sit this one out" in every action movie, ever.

Because thats not how co-op works...

If they want to do that then why dont they go play solo ?

Because they need a group to finish the mission and they know it...

So why dont they act like they need a group to finish the mission ?

 

 

I take great joy in blowing up the objectives or letting door hero's bleed out... 

[Instinction]

I posted this on another tread:

 

 

 

My solution to this problem, not a punishment system, but a system that alerts/informs the player/s of what they are missing out.

 

 

 

Obviously it focus on the part were both the squad and the door heros aren't winning shared xp, but theres also the part were the door hero kills all the fun for the remaining squad, and also the fact door heros aren't taking in mind the objective.

Really this would just make me mad.

It seems more like a slap in the face to me.

"Hey remember that asswad who kept camping the spawn room? Let me rub in your face all that xp you didn't get and he did! Hahaha!"

[Guest]

again, these are mechanics problems...  is gameplay improved by making everyone stand on top of eachother when the enemies already fall over like grass in the wind?  if i show up sword alone, and there's a nova around, you can be damn sure i don't want to be anywhere near them, because they make swordplay a frustrating exercise in impotent futility (read: boredom).  give me one freakin reason other than "i want affinity and drops"