My First Experience With The Trade System Was... Not Good

[Nephelus]

I've been playing for a while but never had the need to try to trade anything before now when I

really wanted a Dual Sword stance mod.

 

My first experience with the whole system has left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure this has all been addressed or complained about before but, as we say, "Data is like good pudding. You can never have too much!" Really, at the end, all I was left with are questions about why the trade system is the way it is.

 

1. Should I really need to look up how to conduct a trade?

Sort of a meta-complain about the trading system as a whole.

My experience with other online games that incorporate trading may have been misleading. 

My expectation was that I should be able to just type /trade <player> to initiate a transaction.

Alas, I found myself consulting the wiki just to figure this out how to do this. I was hoping the system would be more intuitive.

   

2. Why should I need to be in a Clan to trade?

I can't really come up with a justification for this. Seems like this is a way to nudge people towards clans.

Perhaps this is to encourage people to contribute to a clan in the way of trade taxes?

 

3. Why does the clan need a Trading Post?

Surely we don't need advance technology to be built for two people to trade some items.

 

4. Why do I need to be standing IN the Dojo AT the Trading Post?

This was a source of frustration for me. Having just joined my first clan, I didn't know if we even had a Trading Post. I also didn't know where it was!

By the time my clan mates appraised me of its location, the guy I was trading with had invited me to his clans trading post. This was after I ran around for

5 minutes looking for it. Why can't we simply be standing in the dojo next to each other and "Press X to trade with this player".

 

Ideally, for me at least, I could conduct a trade with anyone at anytime from any location (unless they were in a mission or something).

 

5. Why are there limits on what can be traded?

Only Mods, Platinum, Equipment (Consumables etc) Keys and Prime Blueprints can be traded.

I can't understand why we cannot trade Weapons, Sentinels, War Frames, Resources, Standard Blueprints, Costume Items or Credits. 

 

I figure that the 2 reason for this are that; Most of these items are available from the Market and; To prevent Twinking.

 

I figured since we are restricted to what we can equip by Mastery Rank that this shouldn't be a huge problem. 

As a suggestion, trading an item could remove any ranks that have been earned on that item to prevent people from obtaining rank 30 Forma'd items too soon.

Then again, it's already essentially twinking for a lower level player to buy a rare and powerful mod from another player since mods don't have Mastery Rank requirements.

So that makes no sense.

 

Im guessing that standard blueprints are not tradable because that is a source of income for DE from the market in some cases. 

But I have enough blueprints to make Ash 5 times over and there must be someone else who would be willing to take them off my hands for some credits.

 

Considering that Credits are used for almost everything in the game I can't fathom why we cant trade for them. This would result in Platinum having a Credit value

resulting in a Rate of Exchange which would be good for the games' economy.

Resources could be a very profitable enterprise, especially because the market offers for them are insane. 30 Platinum for 300 Polymer Bundles, for example!

 

It feels like the in game economy is being restricted. Trading should be an all-or-nothing deal.

 

6. Why are there a max number of trades per day?

I can't fathom why an arbitrary limit on trading would even exist. Sure, it scales with Rank but it just makes no sense to me.

Mostly, it seems like a way to discourage prolific trading and reward Founders who get an extra 2 trades per day.

 

7. Each player must offer at least one Mod, Prime Blueprint, Prime Blueprint Part, Platinum, or Key to complete a trade.

So, I can't give anything away basically? Kinda minor since I could offer some crap mod in return. Still, it's weird.

 

8. Trade taxes are just a credit sink

Taxes on trades are just a way for making you require more credits, since they don't go anywhere. 

I can understand a clan tax is a good way for the clan to make money but it should be completely optional. A clan tax should be the only tax.

Then again, if two people from different clans are trading, would't they go to the dojo of the clan with a lower tax rate? Would this cause problems if 2 people can't agree on where to go?

 

Well, that's the end of my kvetching. Wondering if anyone else has similar feelings about the trade system and would care to contribute or try to change my mind. Hey, I've been wrong before!

[immolator1001]

1-4 aren't really good points, I didn't need to look up how to trade and there is even a sticky at the top of trading that explains stuff.

 

5 The only things we can trade are those that can't be bought from the market otherwise DE would lose money

 

6 Its a reward for higher mastery rank

 

7 A little annoying but I usually just have them trade me a junk mod if im gifting it to them

 

8 This is to stop people from just buying a bunch of platinum and not having to do any work.

[OptimumBow0]

1. As of now, yes. DE still needs to work out the tutorials a bit more

2. Your trading partner can't invite you to his clan's dojo? 

3. Well, I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem like Tenno can carry every single Void Key, Mod, and Prime Part they have; it's a lore/logic issue.

4. ^

5. People will sell warframes for 15-30 plat. That's WAY cheaper than the market and would take a lot of income away from DE. But why would you ruin your gameplay experience like that anyway?

6. Incentive to progress through the Mastery Ranks.

7. Melee Prowess/Ability Mods

8. The Tariffs are real.

[SomethingCrazy]

1-4 aren't really good points, I didn't need to look up how to trade and there is even a sticky at the top of trading that explains stuff.

 

5 The only things we can trade are those that can't be bought from the market otherwise DE would lose money

 

6 Its a reward for higher mastery rank

 

7 A little annoying but I usually just have them trade me a junk mod if im gifting it to them

 

8 This is to stop people from just buying a bunch of platinum and not having to do any work.

 

This.

 

DE does trading extremely well IMO. It prevents most exploits other games have yet it is extremely neat and clean.

[Aramet]

  2. I'm pretty sure you don't, so long as your trading partner is apart of a clan that has a dojo with a trading post. But, DE has always said this is a party-based game and they encourage everyone to be in a clan for all the benefits that come with it. Even if it's just a mini clan with yourself or your friends.

 

  3. People have asked for a marketplace to use for trading rather than accessing a dojo to trade. It would be convenient, but perhaps DE will introduce other ways in the future. The game is ever growing.

 

  4. Only one person has to be at the trading post. If you are going to another person's dojo, they should know their dojo layout and be the first to the trading post. As long as you are in the dojo, they can initiate the trade with you even if you're three levels down. If you are in a clan, you should memorize the location of the trading post.

 

  5. Platinum, mods, keys, and primes (blueprints) all require excessive farming and can be hard to get. People wanted easier ways to obtain them and keys are necessary to be traded since not everyone is a capable host.

 

Built items are likely not tradeable so you can't just have a friend farm it for you and use his mass resources to build it for you, then hand it over. Resources can be easily farmed, plus they are purchasable in the market for Platinum as are normal, completed Warframes. Therefore, they're a source of income for DE. Sentinels are only 100,000 Credits plus build costs. It likely comes down to DE not wanting the players to get the things handed to them and instead play the game on top of them (DE) not losing income.

 

The restrictions can be annoying but are necessary for various reasons.

 

  6. Most likely to prevent exploiting and encourage trading only what is necessary.

 

  7. Possibly to prevent from getting ripped off, but it is not a big deal IMO. Throw in one of your 80 Ammo Drums if you must.

 

  8. I am pretty sure trade taxes are not set by the clan, nor does it go into the clan's vault. The tax is dependent on the rarity of what is being traded and is a way to dispose of a lot of excess credits that long-term players complain about.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Aramet

[Nephelus]

1-4 aren't really good points, I didn't need to look up how to trade and there is even a sticky at the top of trading that explains stuff.

 

5 The only things we can trade are those that can't be bought from the market otherwise DE would lose money

 

6 Its a reward for higher mastery rank

 

7 A little annoying but I usually just have them trade me a junk mod if im gifting it to them

 

8 This is to stop people from just buying a bunch of platinum and not having to do any work.

1-4. Still doesn't address the need for being required to be in a clan to trade.

 

6. Why should being able to trade be a reward? Why is it not something anyone (above rank 2) can do an unlimited amount?

 

7. I figured. It was a minor complain anyway.

 

8. How do you just buy platinum? You'd need good mods to trade for plat. It's most likely that you'd have already put in plenty of work to have something worthy of trading for platium

 

1. As of now, yes. DE still needs to work out the tutorials a bit more

2. Your trading partner can't invite you to his clan's dojo? 

3. Well, I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem like Tenno can carry every single Void Key, Mod, and Prime Part they have; it's a lore/logic issue.

4. ^

5. People will sell warframes for 15-30 plat. That's WAY cheaper than the market and would take a lot of income away from DE. But why would you ruin your gameplay experience like that anyway?

6. Incentive to progress through the Mastery Ranks.

7. Melee Prowess/Ability Mods

8. The Tariffs are real.

 

2. He did, but only after i ran around for 5 minutes looking for out Trade post

3. This is a game about Space Ninjas. What's this logic you speak of?

4. ^

6. There's already incentive: Being able to equip the good weapons that come later on.

7. Small complaint.

8. Wha?

[Nephelus]

  2. I'm pretty sure you don't, so long as your trading partner is apart of a clan that has a dojo with a trading post. But, DE has always said this is a party-based game and they encourage everyone to be in a clan for all the benefits that come with it. Even if it's just a mini clan with yourself or your friends.

 

  3. People have asked for a marketplace to use for trading rather than accessing a dojo to trade. It would be convenient, but perhaps DE will introduce other ways in the future. The game is ever growing.

 

  4. Only one person has to be at the trading post. If you are going to another person's dojo, they should know their dojo layout and be the first to the trading post. As long as you are in the dojo, they can initiate the trade with you even if you're three levels down. If you are in a clan, you should memorize the location of the trading post.

 

  5. Platinum, mods, keys, and primes (blueprints) all require excessive farming and can be hard to get. People wanted easier ways to obtain them and keys are necessary to be traded since not everyone is a capable host.

 

Built items are likely not tradeable so you can't just have a friend farm it for you and use his mass resources to build it for you, then hand it over. Resources can be easily farmed, plus they are purchasable in the market for Platinum as are normal, completed Warframes. Therefore, they're a source of income for DE. Sentinels are 100,000 Credits plus build costs, so it likely comes down to DE not wanting the players to get the things handed to them and instead play the game on top of them (DE) not losing income.

 

The restrictions can be annoying but are necessary for various reasons.

 

  6. Most likely to prevent exploiting and encourage trading only what is necessary.

 

  7. Possibly to prevent from getting ripped off, but it is not a big deal IMO. Throw in one of your 80 Ammo Drums if you must.

 

  8. I am pretty sure trade taxes are not set by the clan, nor does it go into the clan's vault. The tax is dependent on the rarity of what is being traded and is a way to dispose of a lot of excess credits that long-term players complain about.

2. My point was why would anyone need to be in a clan. I don't like the idea of forced socialization. People should do it for it's own rewards. Not for "features" that are used as incentives that could be accessible to everyone.

 

3. I hope so...

 

4. I wasn't aware of that, so thank you. Still, my point is that it would be more convenient to allow trading throughout the entire dojo either by interacting with the other player of with there being a trade option on the Menu screen.

 

5. I understand the restrictions as being barriers for DE to earn money. I suppose I'll concede this point.

 

6. What kind of exploits are there in trading?

 

7. Small point not deserving of defense, I'm finding.

 

8. I know the base tax is dependent on the rarity of the item but I though the clan tax was paid to and set by the clan. I really don't know that much about the system.

[VKhaun]

-Moved below-

1. Should I really need to look up how to conduct a trade?

No you shouldn't. This has nothing to do with DE. Literlaly. You should not have had to look up how to trade. It's very straightforward. Click the box, put up what you want, offer and accept. I really can't fathom how that's perplexing. Not to offend but to inform. This as your #1 really makes you look like you're either unintelligent or dramatic.

   

2. Why should I need to be in a Clan to trade?

You always need reasons for people to go to clan buildings. If you don't then the clan area just becomes a ghost town. Building and decorating are meaningless if it just leaves you jumping up and down asking people to stop playing and come look at what you did.

 

3. Why does the clan need a Trading Post?

By your description, it seems like you're asking this from a realism standpoint in a game about space ninjas and mutants... That's really not a good direction to go...

 

4. Why do I need to be standing IN the Dojo AT the Trading Post?

See 2 and 3, where you asked the same question.

 

5. Why are there limits on what can be traded?

There are lots of consequences to allowing people to trade, not just for balance but for things like attracting gold farmers/spammers and for testing availability, pacing, etc. Sorry to throw 'it's beta' at you, I know no one likes that answer, but... you do know what a beta is, don't you? :P

 

6. Why are there a max number of trades per day?

Mostly, it seems like a way to discourage prolific trading and reward Founders who get an extra 2 trades per day.

(This is not a copy/paste fail, you literally answered your own question.)

 

7. Each player must offer at least one Mod, Prime Blueprint, Prime Blueprint Part, Platinum, or Key to complete a trade.

I agree that this is strange.

 

8. Trade taxes are just a credit sink

Seems silly when you're sitting on 1mil creds, I know, but imagine someone trying to game the system and trade on extra accounts and what not. You can't trade credits, and trades are limited to three items, so even an extra account would have to actually be PLAYED to keep trading. Don't look at it as a cred sink, look at it like a minimum playtime per trade time ratio.

Edited April 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[Aramet]

2. My point was why would anyone need to be in a clan. I don't like the idea of forced socialization. People should do it for it's own rewards. Not for "features" that are used as incentives that could be accessible to everyone.

 

4. I wasn't aware of that, so thank you. Still, my point is that it would be more convenient to allow trading throughout the entire dojo either by interacting with the other player of with there being a trade option on the Menu screen.

 

8. I know the base tax is dependent on the rarity of the item but I though the clan tax was paid to and set by the clan. I really don't know that much about the system.

 

2. A lot of people don't. Warframe's community does consist of a lot of lone wolves that have tried to fight for their style of play, and in the past, the devs have simply said during livestreams that they want everyone to be in a clan and if they don't want to be, then they will have to deal with the consequences.

 

They might be planning more for those players that do go solo, but I don't know anything else on that front.

 

4. Convenience is nice. I play another game that doesn't have even trading, only mailboxes, which is a very weak form of trading. Perhaps DE just wants the dojo to feel as immersive as the rest of the game (silent Warframes and customization for a more personal feel) by having a trading post be the place to interact and bring other people in, like a... dinner table? Heh.

 

8. I don't believe that the tax funds the clan. Me and my friends trade in our dojo often, and the money does not go to our vault. I'm positive it is just a place to dump credits into a meaningless void. The Dark Sectors is where clans earn their income.

 

EDIT: Oops, I forgot #6. The exploits could vary from bots to excessive trading of rares and blueprints to one account. Maybe someone would make endless accounts to get multiple prizes or Platinum out of something. I'm not very creative on what they could do, but other people are, and DE spent a long time thinking out the trading system before releasing it to avoid people abusing the system to their advantage.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Aramet

[Nephelus]

 

1. Should I really need to look up how to conduct a trade?

No you shouldn't. This has nothing to do with DE. Literlaly. You should not have had to look up how to trade. It's very straightforward. Click the box, put up what you want, offer and accept. I really can't fathom how that's perplexing. Not to offend but to inform. This as your #1 really makes you look like you're either unintelligent or dramatic.

   

2. Why should I need to be in a Clan to trade?

You always need reasons for people to go to clan buildings. If you don't then the clan area just becomes a ghost town. Building and decorating are meaningless if it just leaves you jumping up and down asking people to stop playing and come look at what you did.

 

3. Why does the clan need a Trading Post?

By your description, it seems like you're asking this from a realism standpoint in a game about space ninjas and mutants... That's really not a good direction to go...

 

4. Why do I need to be standing IN the Dojo AT the Trading Post?

See 2 and 3, where you asked the same question.

 

5. Why are there limits on what can be traded?

There are lots of consequences to allowing people to trade, not just for balance but for things like attracting gold farmers/spammers and for testing availability, pacing, etc. Sorry to throw 'it's beta' at you, I know no one likes that answer, but... you do know what a beta is, don't you? :P

 

6. Why are there a max number of trades per day?

Mostly, it seems like a way to discourage prolific trading and reward Founders who get an extra 2 trades per day.

(This is not a copy/paste fail, you literally answered your own question.)

 

7. Each player must offer at least one Mod, Prime Blueprint, Prime Blueprint Part, Platinum, or Key to complete a trade.

I agree that this is strange.

 

8. Trade taxes are just a credit sink

Seems silly when you're sitting on 1mil creds, I know, but imagine someone trying to game the system and trade on extra accounts and what not. You can't trade credits, and trades are limited to three items, so even an extra account would have to actually be PLAYED to keep trading. Don't look at it as a cred sink, look at it like a minimum playtime per trade time ratio.

 

 

 

 

1. " Not to offend but to inform. This as your #1 really makes you look like you're either unintelligent or dramatic." And here I am being offended. This was the very first time i had even considered trading. I meant trading as a whole. Not just selecting the items to trade and then accepting the offer. I had to look up the fact that i needed to even be in a clan (Luckily, I had just joined one) and that said clan needed a trading post and that one of use needed to be standing at the trading post. You can think of me as an idiot noob if you want. My experience led me to think that the process was non-trivial for a new player. That was my complaint. If there was some detail that i overlooked then you can say that without being insulting.

 

2. You make a good point here but it still feels forced. Hopefully, in the future there will be more reasons to hang out in the dojo and trading will be doable from anywhere.

 

3. There's a difference between realism and convenience. Why shouldn't a game with wall running space ninjas having trading without the need to research the ability to do so?

 

4. Not same question. It is additional levels of inconvenience. 

 

6. I guess that you see the discouragement of trading as a good thing where i see it as a bad thing.

 

8. I don't have 1mil credits. It's just seems odd for it to be there when, for someone with that much money it's almost nothing. Why have it at all?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Nephelus

[Archistopheles]

That's why I ignore that portion of the game.

[Nephelus]

That's why I ignore that portion of the game.

 

I think trading is an important aspect. I don't think it's so poorly done that it needs to be ignored, I just think it could be done better.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Nephelus