Frost Usability

[ZachC]

Quite simply, Frost has the unfortunate duty of protecting the pod/terminal, and the lack of the ability to do anything else while doing so, lest he not get back in time. Even worse, how often do you see Frost's outside of a mission type with a terminal or pod that needs protecting? This, however, could be fixed.

 

One fix that I propose is to change Frost's snow globe to never block allied fire, regardless of their position, and always block enemy fire, also regardless of their position. Then comes the big change to snow globe, which is changing it to be cast at the location of the cursor. This would allow Frost to use Snow Globe to shield allies or objectives while still retaining mobility as well as being able to do some CC with the ability. With this change Frost could be used more outside of defence missions, and be more active within them.

 

Another thing that would be helpful is to change "Freeze" to "Freezing Winds," which would be a cone that would apply or refresh Freeze's effects on targets within its area. Rather than using the current break on any damage taken model, the CC would break upon taking a certain percent of the target's effective shield+health maximum as damage (possibly scaling with power strength).

 

Ice Wave would remain relatively unchanged, although it could do with becoming a cone rather than a line as well. Perhaps hitting an enemy that is frozen solid with ice wave would increase the percent of damage they could take without being broken out of the CC.

 

Avalanche would also remain highly similar to its previous state, but it would also apply a lesser version (between 1/4-1/2 the damage threshold to make it more a "spot" AoE CC while still letting the other freezing effects remain useful) of the same 'frozen' status effect, and perhaps refresh the duration and damage towards breaking counter of targets within range.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

That reminds me to Ymir from SMite. #@*&$@ is quite scary and frost could learn a thing or two from him.

 

I like how Snow Globe Works now, its the other 3 skills that arent as efficient. Specially Ice Wave and Freeze.

[egregiousRac]

I like these ideas. They would actually make Frost the CC king that DE was saying they were making him when they nerfed Snowglobe. Good reliable CC and synergy between skills (quite rare in Warframe unfortunately) make this concept compelling.

 

EDIT: I agree with Sharp, Snowglobe is in a good place right now.

Edited April 30, 2014 by egregiousRac

[ZachC]

That reminds me to Ymir from SMite. #@*&$@ is quite scary and frost could learn a thing or two from him.

 

I like how Snow Globe Works now, its the other 3 skills that arent as efficient. Specially Ice Wave and Freeze.

The issue right now with Snow Globe is that it can screw over your team if used improperly (blocking where the enemies are coming from) and leaves Frost rather stuck in one spot wonce you hit high level. Once you reach a certain level, Frost's Snow Globe lasts around 8 seconds (4 seconds invulnerability, 4 seconds of the enemy wearing the boosted HP down followed by the glove getting wrecked immediately) which means he can't leave the objective too often. It ends up giving Frost this really slow game play style as he can't really move around. These changes would make Snow Globe easier on team mates if they aren't placed properly, as they won't interfere with aiming, and it would let Frost move around some more.

 

Hell, it would even promote some more team play as you could spot an ally in trouble, and block that powerful group of mobs or shield them directly with it.

 

Edit: Note that the changes to Snow Globe are more "quality of life" improvements more than anything else. The biggest changes are that it finds more use outside defence (where the goal is to generally keep moving) and you aren't forced to sit on the pod in defence.

Edited April 30, 2014 by ZachC

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

ZachC i think thats the point of snowglobe, as a defensive measure for static objectives. If an ally is down you pop Snowglobe on top of them, same for cryopod or when camping an área in survival. If you want to make Frost a move versatile frame then the focus should go to his other skills wich has no real use.

 

The point is to use your other skills while on the move and use snowglove for static objectives.

Edited April 30, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Kiafis]

I used to main Frosty regardless of game type and I loved him on defense and survival. Now because of some dude who deciding instead of slaughtering the grineer like the cloned space pigs they are he went and made a sandwich while his bubble was up. I can't stand the way frost plays now as he feels overall nerfed into stupidity. His 4th is exceedingly boring and unimpressive and his snow globe now acts like a ball and chain where I am shackled to the target rather than able to wander whilst the shield is up massacring everything in my path. They could have instead of removing the ability of the frost players to be dependable and only cast shield every 30+ seconds depending on duration extension mods to something more utility heavy instead of nerfing him into. "hey I can never leave this spot again and have to cast my shield again every 8 seconds or so."

Edited April 30, 2014 by Kiafis

[Brightside013]

ZachC i think thats the point of snowglobe, as a defensive measure for static objectives. If an ally is down you pop Snowglobe on top of them, same for cryopod or when camping an área in survival. If you want to make Frost a move versatile frame then the focus should go to his other skills wich has no real use.

 

The point is to use your other skills while on the move and use snowglove for static objectives.

Exactly. Buffing Freeze with a slightly larger freezing and damage AoE at impact, making Ice Wave conal instead of linear, and adding a longer freeze duration and/or buffing the damage of Avalanche all make a lot more since in my head than either of the proposed changes to Snow Globe. Especially if a team coordinates well, the mobility issues of snow globe can be mitigate or ignored.

[Kiafis]

Sorry about the scrambliness of my previous post this device appears to be malfunctioning.

[LukeAura]

Frost doesn't have good synergy, that's true.
Snowglobe is a key skill for Frost, because it covers his natural weaknesses. He's slow, and has no mobility options. No ability to position himself. So Snowglobe creates a position for him. That's good, and it's a very nice niche to fill as a stationary command/artillery bunker. 
And yet Ice Wave is entirely reliant on his ability to position himself accurately and quickly to line up enemies.  
Freeze is a single target breakable CC which requires careful aiming to avoid breaking. But a requirement to keeping up Snowglobe longer is aggressiveness and rapid killing, you'll very easily break a Freeze while trying to protect the globe. 
Avalanche is just generic and meh overall. 

I think it's fine that Snowglobes is centered over Frost, not saying I really have anything against making it castable at range, it's the other skills that need to be retweaked to synergize around it.  



 

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Brightside013 Exactly, besides if you dont want to bother your friends whit snow glove you can always make those fun tiny snowgloves so it only covers you.

[egregiousRac]

I used to main Frosty regardless of game type and I loved him on defense and survival. Now because of some dude who deciding instead of slaughtering the grineer like the cloned space pigs they are he went and made a sandwich while his bubble was up. I can't stand the way frost plays now as he feels overall nerfed into stupidity. His 4th is exceedingly boring and unimpressive and his snow globe now acts like a ball and chain where I am shackled to the target rather than able to wander whilst the shield is up massacring everything in my path. They could have instead of removing the ability of the frost players to be dependable and only cast shield every 30+ seconds depending on duration extension mods to something more utility heavy instead of nerfing him into. "hey I can never leave this spot again and have to cast my shield again every 8 seconds or so."

 

I still use Frost most of the time. The only times I don't run him is if I am running infested (Vauban or Nova) or I want to have a Nekros on the team. I replaced two of my ability slots long ago, and I am seriously considering doing that to the third as well. The only one I carry is Avalanche because sometimes I am feeling lazy and just use it to smash low level enemies.

 

The issue is that Snow Globe is as good of CC or better compared to any of his other skills, and the damage on them does not make up for that. Why would I stun the enemy for one second, during which I am stunned too, when I can slow them by 66% for 45 seconds in a larger area at half the cost? The same goes for his other skills. Snow Globe is so adaptable to different mission types, which allows him to be useful, but his other skills aren't even worth carrying. Most of this adaptability comes from being able to control it's range, since it is a rare ability that any range is useful for different things.

Def/Mdef: Narrow Minded and Stretch - Approximately 25% smaller than default, this gives people room to use it as cover, but it gives long duration and slows enemies before they reach it.

Survival: No range mods - Very useful for blocking a path or covering a team under heavy fire. Duration isn't an issue.

Other missions: Narrow Minded - Tiny globe, great for personal cover but small enough for teammates to fire around with ease. Huge region of slowing before they can get close enough to hurt you.

 

The point I am trying to make is that Frost has one of the most interesting skills in the game, and it is far more versatile than people give it credit for, but he is also shackled with three abilities that are nearly useless.

[ZachC]

ZachC i think thats the point of snowglobe, as a defensive measure for static objectives. If an ally is down you pop Snowglobe on top of them, same for cryopod or when camping an área in survival. If you want to make Frost a move versatile frame then the focus should go to his other skills wich has no real use.

 

The point is to use your other skills while on the move and use snowglove for static objectives.

At the very least, how about the blocking of enemy and allied fire changes? I'm sure people the world over will love the disappearance of the bullet eating fields over areas that aren't cryopods in defence. In addition, the reason I suggested the change to Snow Globe is that being able to cast it from a distance is to unshackle Frosts from the pod. Remember how DE said that Frost's globes were slowing down game play? That was with old globes, and the new globes are even worse. You are stuck in one place most of the time with new globes as they most often get burned down after eight seconds, making you have to hover over the pod and recast

 

The general purpose of that proposed change is to allow Frost players to be more 'active' and position to do other actions while still protecting the pod. They still have to be diligent in their defence of it, of course, as the globe isn't any stronger than it is now and enemies can still fire at the objective from inside it, but they can actually move around. It changes the amount of places the Frost can go from "a few steps out of the globe" to "within 50 meters and LoS". The added ability to use it as spot CC is just a small bonus.

 

 

Exactly. Buffing Freeze with a slightly larger freezing and damage AoE at impact, making Ice Wave conal instead of linear, and adding a longer freeze duration and/or buffing the damage of Avalanche all make a lot more since in my head than either of the proposed changes to Snow Globe. Especially if a team coordinates well, the mobility issues of snow globe can be mitigate or ignored.

The changes to Snow Globe are to generally add more mobility to Frost's gameplay by allowing him to move around while also making sure the snow globe doesn't become the 'fire and forget' the measure it often turned into with the old globe. During defence, Frost has a habit of becoming a turret of sort, until the mad dash to grab loot at the end of the wave.

 

 

Frost doesn't have good synergy, that's true.

Snowglobe is a key skill for Frost, because it covers his natural weaknesses. He's slow, and has no mobility options. No ability to position himself. So Snowglobe creates a position for him. That's good, and it's a very nice niche to fill as a stationary command/artillery bunker. 

And yet Ice Wave is entirely reliant on his ability to position himself accurately and quickly to line up enemies.  

Freeze is a single target breakable CC which requires careful aiming to avoid breaking. But a requirement to keeping up Snowglobe longer is aggressiveness and rapid killing, you'll very easily break a Freeze while trying to protect the globe. 

Avalanche is just generic and meh overall. 

I think it's fine that Snowglobes is centered over Frost, not saying I really have anything against making it castable at range, it's the other skills that need to be retweaked to synergize around it.  

 

Indeed, it is certainly a problem. The Snow Globe being castable from elsewhere, as I said, is mostly something to allow Frost to move around a bit more and not have to stand directly on the pod at all times during a wave. The CC I added in was an attempt to increase Synergy, as with this rework all of his abilities would either directly or indirectly improve team survivability and reward using them together rather than just building for one or two.

 

 

I used to main Frosty regardless of game type and I loved him on defense and survival. Now because of some dude who deciding instead of slaughtering the grineer like the cloned space pigs they are he went and made a sandwich while his bubble was up. I can't stand the way frost plays now as he feels overall nerfed into stupidity. His 4th is exceedingly boring and unimpressive and his snow globe now acts like a ball and chain where I am shackled to the target rather than able to wander whilst the shield is up massacring everything in my path. They could have instead of removing the ability of the frost players to be dependable and only cast shield every 30+ seconds depending on duration extension mods to something more utility heavy instead of nerfing him into. "hey I can never leave this spot again and have to cast my shield again every 8 seconds or so."

Exactly what I am trying to say.

[ImperiusAiE]

1. Freeze ---> Frost Breath: Freezes enemies in a cone in front of you for X seconds.

2. Ice Wave ---> Blizzard: Summons a blizzard at the targeted location for X seconds, slowing and damaging enemies for its duration with a chance to freeze them with each tick.
3. Snow Globe ---> Glacier: Conjures a giant wall of ice at the targeted location with X health that lasts until destroyed, possibly growing smaller as its health decreases.

4. Avalanche ---> Shatter: Shatters Frost's Glacier and all enemies frozen by Frost's abilities, dealing X damage in an area around each enemy and spawning an Ice Slick under any enemy killed by it for X seconds that knocks down any enemy that passes over it. Glacier's Shatter damage and radius scales with its remaining health.

 

It makes all of his abilities relevant and play off of each other, allowing him to wombo combo them for great effect. Just a thought.

Edited May 1, 2014 by ImperiusAiE