[Suggestion]Thrown Weapon Channeling Overhaul!

[Vheraun]

So, let me prologue by saying that I love the Kestrel. It's one of my favorite melee weapons. It was one before Melee 2.0, and it still is now (though I still haven't been able to get my hands on a Gleaming Talon stance >.< ). I generally enjoy the concept of thrown weapons, and I think I've come up with an idea for them to be made even more unique.

 

Of course, I don't expect DE to adopt my idea. There are lots of better suggestions by lots of better players out there, the devs have plenty to work with if they wish to. If I so much as inspire a single person, or a single thought behind a minor change in gameplay, my work is done!

 

 

Now, let's get on to business. You may try listening to this while reading, I find it oddly both relaxing and hype-inducing.

 

 

The Present: Right now, if you channel while your thrown weapon (Kestrel, Glaive or Glaive Prime) is airborne, the weapon will explode, dealing AoE damage to enemies around it and returning to your hand. Flashy and effective. Pretty much what defines Warframe.

 

The Problem: None, really. If anything, this ability adds a nice spice when playing around with thrown weapons. However, while there's not problem with it, I feel it could be made much, much better with the addition of a bit of diversity.

Diversity through mods.

Another thing that defines Warframe.

 

The Suggestion: If channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it starts glowing and does more damage. The same way channeling works with any melee weapon. Channeling mods such as Life Strike take effect like normally.

The catch is, channeling during the weapon's flight can have different effects, determined by a series of thrown-weapon-only mods. Some sample suggestions follow. Mod ranks are omitted, as I haven't decided on what their value should be.

Boom Stick

-Upon channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it explodes, dealing damage to nearby enemies, and returns to its owner's hand.

    Pretty much what we have right now, with one change. If the thrown weapon has no elemental mods on it, the damage of the explosion is impact damage. Otherwise, it matches the element of the weapon (the first combined element if there are more than one). The explosion has a 100% proc chance of the respective element (or knockdown in case of lack of elemental mods), with reduced damage. Visually, an elemental explosion matches the respective element of the mod (gas cloud, fiery explosion, you get the gist). An explosion without elemental mods looks like a force blast.

 

Second Chance

-Upon channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it is flung to a random direction, as if it was thrown again from the place it was. It bounces the maximum amount of times before returning to its owner's hand.

    Your basic "I want to clear this small room full of enemies" mod. Upon channeling, it starts its flight again to a random trajectory, increasing the total number of bounces before returning.

 

Readiness

-Upon channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it immediately returns to its owner's hand, dealing damage to any enemy in its path. While this mod is equipped, thrown weapons gain punch through.

    Would look badass if used properly. You throw a Glaive against a distant enemy while a melee user charges you, kill the enemy, and call the weapon back, potentially killing the melee one as well on its way back. If the second enemy is not killed, it's not far from death, as your weapon lies ready in your hand. Another use would be to shoot it through an enemy (taking advantage of the punch through) and call it back, damaging them twice.

 

Hunt

-Upon channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it homes on the targeted enemy. If an enemy is not targeted, the channel has no effect.

    Perhaps not a straight change of direction, but a subtler one. Still, it should be enough to be able to hit an enemy at quite a different trajectory inside a cramped space.

 

Distraction

-Upon channeling when a thrown weapon is airborne, it emits a sound from its location, causing nearby enemies to walk over there and investigate. If the same enemy detects the distraction (2-3) times, it becomes alerted to your presence. The thrown weapon returns to its owner's hand after emitting the sound, but cannot hit enemies while flying back.

    My personal favorite, though it would probably require some AI redesigning to work. Perhaps the weapon would disappear altogether and reappear in the Tenno's hand instead of flying back.

 

Also, a quote from Casardis, whose suggestion of a different take on channeling is actually great, and I encourage you to give his thread a read, it's worth it.

 

Everything that tries to increase the depth of channeling from its current shallow state is welcomed, by me at least. The only thing I'm not sure is the use of mods yet again (I just dislike the idea of making so many of these things part of mods instead of innate powers). Channeling is already lackluster as it is, and I don't like the idea of putting a bandaid over the shallowness of current channeling (channeling mods). I made a topic about how channeling could be enhanced to make similar weapons very different from each other just because of that, even direct upgrades like Dragon Nikana. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235335-enhanced-melee-channeling-innate-and-unique-channeling-properties/

 

Your suggestions could be innate channeling powers depending on the weapon (Glaive, Glaive Prime, Kestrel). For instance, Glaive could have Second Chance innately, Glaive Prime would have Boom Stick, and Kestrel would have Distraction. This would also give more reason to choose between the weapons, even the regular vs Prime, and promote variety. The mods can still exist so that one can change their playstyle (maybe someone prefer Second Chance on Glaive Prime), at a cost (mod capacity and slot). Channeling is unique to melee weapons; and therefore should be much more meaningful than how DE's currently making it, IMO.

I expect your opinions on the matter ^_^

Edited June 4, 2014 by Vheraun

[OokamiDamashi]

Very interesting concepts. I would definitely love to play around with these.

[Synville]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

 

Every single yes in the freaking world. 

[Casardis]

Everything that tries to increase the depth of channeling from its current shallow state is welcomed, by me at least. The only thing I'm not sure is the use of mods yet again (I just dislike the idea of making so many of these things part of mods instead of innate powers). Channeling is already lackluster as it is, and I don't like the idea of putting a bandaid over the shallowness of current channeling (channeling mods). I made a topic about how channeling could be enhanced to make similar weapons very different from each other just because of that, even direct upgrades like Dragon Nikana. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235335-enhanced-melee-channeling-innate-and-unique-channeling-properties/

 

Your suggestions could be innate channeling powers depending on the weapon (Glaive, Glaive Prime, Kestrel). For instance, Glaive could have Second Chance innately, Glaive Prime would have Boom Stick, and Kestrel would have Distraction. This would also give more reason to choose between the weapons, even the regular vs Prime, and promote variety. The mods can still exist so that one can change their playstyle (maybe someone prefer Second Chance on Glaive Prime), at a cost (mod capacity and slot). Channeling is unique to melee weapons; and therefore should be much more meaningful than how DE's currently making it, IMO.

 

Now, onto a bit of criticism on your ideas.

 

Just so you know, the current Boom Stick channel power already makes the weapon return immediately into your hands, and therefore doing what Readiness does, but more effectively since you can triple-hit someone with it (first initial strike piercing, if you have Power Throw, then channel explosion, and lastly, the return hit). As for Second Chance, how about making it magnetize slightly onto an enemy (it already does that with Glaive Prime when you throw it near an enemy, at least it did several times for me). Since they have limited speed, an enemy will still be able to avoid it, but if they aren't moving, at least it will hit them instead of going randomly (only the first flight will be magnetized after channeling, not the bounces afterward).

 

In any case, great ideas!

Edited June 4, 2014 by Casardis

[Vheraun]

Everything that tries to increase the depth of channeling from its current shallow state is welcomed, by me at least. The only thing I'm not sure is the use of mods yet again (I just dislike the idea of making so many of these things part of mods instead of innate powers). Channeling is already lackluster as it is, and I don't like the idea of putting a bandaid over the shallowness of current channeling (channeling mods). I made a topic about how channeling could be enhanced to make similar weapons very different from each other just because of that, even direct upgrades like Dragon Nikana. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235335-enhanced-melee-channeling-innate-and-unique-channeling-properties/

 

Your suggestions could be innate channeling powers depending on the weapon (Glaive, Glaive Prime, Kestrel). For instance, Glaive could have Second Chance innately, Glaive Prime would have Boom Stick, and Kestrel would have Distraction. This would also give more reason to choose between the weapons, even the regular vs Prime, and promote variety. The mods can still exist so that one can change their playstyle (maybe someone prefer Second Chance on Glaive Prime), at a cost (mod capacity and slot). Channeling is unique to melee weapons; and therefore should be much more meaningful than how DE's currently making it, IMO.

 

Now, onto a bit of criticism on your ideas.

 

Just so you know, the current Boom Stick channel power already makes the weapon return immediately into your hands, and therefore doing what Readiness does, but more effectively since you can triple-hit someone with it (first initial strike piercing, if you have Power Throw, then channel explosion, and lastly, the return hit). As for Second Chance, how about making it magnetize slightly onto an enemy (it already does that with Glaive Prime when you throw it near an enemy, at least it did several times for me). Since they have limited speed, an enemy will still be able to avoid it, but if they aren't moving, at least it will hit them instead of going randomly (only the first flight will be magnetized after channeling, not the bounces afterward).

 

In any case, great ideas!

Great feedback, and your topic looks very promising, I'll read through it more thoroughly once I'm done replying. Would you mind if I added some bits of this post as well as a link to your topic in the OP?

 

Also, I had thought of a homing mod as well, forgot to write that one down :p

I'll do it now.

[Casardis]

Do it as you will. XD I'd appreciate it either way, since you're giving it a read.

 

By the way, for the Hunt, maybe you can even put a specific angle degree that it can turn and homing into. For example, a maximum of 70 degrees in all frontal direction (meaning it can go 70 degrees upward to a flying enemy, but it can never turn backward).

 

Continuing on the feedback, I was thinking the 100% proc for Boom Stick may be too much, unless you want to reduce the damage of the explosion (currently the damage is HUGE and can even deal headshots). Imagine a 100% proc of Viral; you'll be able to half enemy's health all the time in a radius (Tysis can do that but it's not an explosion, nor does its shots actually deal much damage until heavily modded). Some adjustments may need to be made, but I always have been in favor of more utility elements as opposed to straight damage.

 

Additionally. since Boom Stick already does what Readiness does but better, maybe you can add one more thing to Readiness. It's currently very lackluster compared to some of the others (even though Distraction doesn't do that much, at least its purpose is clearer, as opposed to dealing damage).

 

Going back to Distraction, I was wondering about something. When you activate it, does it return immediately to your hand or it keeps flying? It would be slightly immersion-breaking if the Glaive was bouncing around still after using Distraction, even though the Grineer are looking directly at the flying weapon XD. If it does fly back to your hand, then more additions need to be made to Readiness to compensate. If it doesn't fly directly back, well, I don't know. XD

[Vheraun]

Do it as you will. XD I'd appreciate it either way, since you're giving it a read.

 

By the way, for the Hunt, maybe you can even put a specific angle degree that it can turn and homing into. For example, a maximum of 70 degrees in all frontal direction (meaning it can go 70 degrees upward to a flying enemy, but it can never turn backward).

 

Continuing on the feedback, I was thinking the 100% proc for Boom Stick may be too much, unless you want to reduce the damage of the explosion (currently the damage is HUGE and can even deal headshots). Imagine a 100% proc of Viral; you'll be able to half enemy's health all the time in a radius (Tysis can do that but it's not an explosion, nor does its shots actually deal much damage until heavily modded). Some adjustments may need to be made, but I always have been in favor of more utility elements as opposed to straight damage.

 

Additionally. since Boom Stick already does what Readiness does but better, maybe you can add one more thing to Readiness. It's currently very lackluster compared to some of the others (even though Distraction doesn't do that much, at least its purpose is clearer, as opposed to dealing damage).

 

Going back to Distraction, I was wondering about something. When you activate it, does it return immediately to your hand or it keeps flying? It would be slightly immersion-breaking if the Glaive was bouncing around still after using Distraction, even though the Grineer are looking directly at the flying weapon XD. If it does fly back to your hand, then more additions need to be made to Readiness to compensate. If it doesn't fly directly back, well, I don't know. XD

Yeah, I was worried about this proc chance, but I only did it for the sake of realism. I mean, it's a cloud of gas (ball of flame / electric current etc.), people should be getting poisoned (burned / electrified etc.). Reduced damage sounds like the way to go. And I have an idea for readiness. I'll update the OP.

As for Distraction, I'd say it returns to your hand, but with no possibility to damage enemies in its path. Maybe it even disappears and reappears?

I'll make some tweaks in the OP.

[Vheraun]

Bumpers.

[Vheraun]

Rrrrrebumpers.

[Kirby47]

Interesting, but can you channel multiple times in 1 throw?

[Vheraun]

Interesting, but can you channel multiple times in 1 throw?

 

I hadn't thought about that.

Well, with every mod apart from Second Chance it would return to the owner. It could work with Second Chance though, for a slashing mayhem :3

Would have to cost energy on each channel though.