Actually Interesting Boss Fights.

[EchoLG]

As the title says, after seeing most bosses in action, I feel like this game should realy find a way to make them more interesting to fight and soon enough.

What most boss fights conclude to is Point'n'Click on the boss while you slowly chip away from its tremendous health pool, I find that depressingly boring after the first few runs, bosses don't realy have anything special to fighting them, the only one I recall as slightly different is the Jackal, which is is still laughably easy, but I liked that fight, you actually had to do something before you could damage the boss, it had the missile volleys that it fired once in a while, the ground stomps, machine guns, it felt overall like a decent fight for an early planet boss.

Now I'm pretty certain this subject has been brought up again in the past, but I feel like having more bosses that are unique (read: not an oversized copy of a common enemy) and that use skills unique to them while also having some nice triggered events with them (e.g: boss starts running fast and melee everyone when it drops below 20% or something) would add to the spice and replayability of the game by a lot.

TL;DR version: We need more epic bosses that are actually epic to fight. Replayability. Make the bosses harder based on how you need to think and play to actually defeat them, not by just adding more damage and health to them.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Should I kill myself for posting this? o 3o

[BadlandsHyena]

You should probably get that Skana and stab yourself through the-

Nah I'm kidding, I haven't gone really far yet (because I'm stuck in a ridiculous, I need to get everything to rank 7 on Mars or I won't leave mindset) but I do agree that there should be more to the bosses than just tanking and spanking (based on the videos I've watched) - but hey, as far as I see it, they're working on things so who knows, maybe they'll make bosses more ...strategic once this is ready for Official Release.

[Greavence]

i don't agree with the idea, considering most bosses do have unique features and attacks. But i don't believe posting your opinion deserved a downvote on your reputation, so i made it back to 0.

[ghostshot47]

The only hard bosses are jackal and the one that fires rockets

[EchoLG]

i don't agree with the idea, considering most bosses do have unique features and attacks. But i don't believe posting your opinion deserved a downvote on your reputation, so i made it back to 0.

It's just that I feel more challenged when I have to deal with a Commander's annoying teleport ability than I have when I am killing their boss in the mission, which is kinda sad, some bosses you can even stunlock down and they can't do anything to respond properly, like the Phorid, which is actually close to being as interesting as the Jackal, having a ranged bolt attack, the AoE scream and the knockback, while being an agile enemy, problem is you can just use a freeze damage mod on it and it's suddenly just a useless and bigger charger, nothing else, I haven't seen it use the phychic bolts it has all too often and the scream is only used once every time I play it, it never actually repeats that spell/skill/power, whatever.

and yes thank you, this is indeed just an opinion and I'd like if people came to discuss it as I feel it is pretty important for the game in the long run, memorable boss fights is a big plus.

[SparklesnChaos]

1st - I agree that the majority of the boss fights lack flavor. I would also agree that the jackal fight is by far the most entertaining, easy as it is. The only other boss fight that is even remotely involved is Kril (frost boss in Ceres system).

2nd - there is nothing wrong in making suggestions, what do you think all these sections in the forums are for? Just a place for you pretend to be forum police and tell people what to do?

3rd - reputation systems on forums are a joke- don't worry about it at all.

4th and lastly - I definitely agree, I'd love to see some epic boss fights. 4 man raid style bosses that require some communication or get your &#! handed to you =)

[Akrakorn]

In short, it'd be better if we had less bullet sponge bosses and more "interactive" bosses (like the Jackal). Aye, I agree with this.

[Date_Terumune]

my idea is to make some bosses [like commanders of grinners] pull back [and close doors behind so there would be "we must get him fast" thingy] or call pretty big backup after special amount of hp gone [c'mon he is too important to be unguarded or even tried to be supported after his guard get vaporized]

i also would like to see that they could use some special and powerfull attack from time to time, like jackal granader/rockets [w/e that is it kills anything in one hit] and there would be special points to hide arround

fun part would be also that on robotic bosses/infested there would be computers to hack and for example, for infested it would encose him in one place [team must push him in there/lure] and lift him on fire for some specific damage

for robots we can use electric discharge or something like that

Just a suggestion, some might like while others dont...

just dont burn me on the cross right?

[Imbaland]

You will never get interesting boss fights in a shooter. It can't be done. No game has ever succeeded in doing this. This is because AI in shooters is extremely limited.

[Date_Terumune]

well by looking at the AI here, i think its possible...they cover, they use shield guys to hide behind, and they lay fire cover when moving back

its just matter of time

[SolluxCaptorTA]

+1, dude. Bullet sponges, while occasionally satisfying to just pound away at, aren't actually too much fun.

Jackal's a good example. On the Wiki's poll for most interesting boss, he has more than 75% of the votes. However, it seems a good idea to actually break it down for each boss and offer suggestions.

Vor-First boss, I think he can be nice and easy. Let the noobs have peace.

Jackal-Already the single most interesting boss. He's good for now.

Vay Hek-The duplicates are a good start, but what if he could (and frequently did) teleport switch with his doubles? They could spread out over the map, taking cover and maybe shotgun sniping spots, and whenever you get Hek cornered, BAM! switches out. You'd have to cover his doubles (total doubles = party total-1) or just kill them off, but he can spawn more if he's not at his max after a short cooldown.

Nef Anyo-No more stunlock! In addition, he should summon some Moas and ride on them. Close in on him, he calls a Shockwave and a regular Moa over, the Shockwave keeps you busy while he hitches a ride, sniping you the whole time. Maybe he has some invulnerable shielding and you need to get to a console and hack a Leech Osprey or two to drain them, which he'll shoot down eventually.

Golem-Splits. Half health, he splits into two extra fast Golems, half HP. That not enough? When the little Golems get to half, they split too.

Hyena-Nerf him by about a thousand percent. Then make it a pack fight, like Lotus says it should be. *Evil grin*

Ambulas-Make him a flaming melee beast. Low health, low shileds, fast as a Roller and lit on fire. Constantly spewing flames, should probably blind you if you get too close. Lure him to a frozen lake to have him melt it and gain a temporary reprieve.

Some basic ideas here for every boss I've fought so far.

[Imbaland]

well by looking at the AI here, i think its possible...they cover, they use shield guys to hide behind, and they lay fire cover when moving back

its just matter of time

Squad based AI is the most convincing, but we are talking boss fights there. Single units with high intelligence. Basically the equivalent of going 1v1 against someone in a multiplayer shooter.

The moment an opponent in such a scenario is vastly "less intelligent", it becomes a simple grind to kill them, repeating a single action over and over again until they are dead. This is why "boss fights" in shooters almost always involve enemies with very high HP.

[Teleo]

You will never get interesting boss fights in a shooter. It can't be done. No game has ever succeeded in doing this. This is because AI in shooters is extremely limited.

You don't exactly need to improve AI all the time. You can add stuff like a piece of armor that has to be blown off by respawning red barrels in the room, or something that behaves more like the Stalker.

Or make something like the Hyena dialogue alluded to, multiple "boss-like" enemies as a single encounter. Maybe your squad would have to split them up to make the fight easier, etc.

[CubedOobleck]

Yeah bosses are rarely any good when there isn't some puzzle solving involved and the fact that you need to farm them doesn't help.

[Story4]

Bosses should be more interesting, i agree. For example the Nyx boss could split in two faster one when he has lower than half hp and in 4 when they have less than 50% also. Tyl Regor (i think that is his name, the boss for Ash) could have some turrets near him that regenerate after they are destroyed to add to the challenge and after he is lower than 50% hp 2 shield bases should appear that you have to destry before killing him. And these are just out of the top of my head.

[ArcaneAzmadi]

Vay Hek is the dullest thing I've ever fought. He's a pure bullet sponge with JUST enough damage that you can't stand toe-to-toe with him (he may create 1 or 2 clones but once they go down that's about it). That regenning shield is pure annoyance- one time when I was 2-manning it, we almost failed to beat him simply because we ran out of ammo and had to resort to circle strafing and meleeing him. Yeah, it's remotely impressive that he seeks cover behind those boxes to try and dodge your shots, but his ridiculous amount of armour and HP just makes him TEDIOUS. I'd prefer more bosses that challenge your skill rather than your patience- more like Kela De Thaym.

[ValhaHazred]

You mean most of the bosses aren't placeholders? I had assumed they where getting a major update or something.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Golem-Splits. Half health, he splits into two extra fast Golems, half HP. That not enough? When the little Golems get to half, they split too.

Bosses should be more interesting, i agree. For example the Nyx boss could split in two faster one when he has lower than half hp and in 4 when they have less than 50% also.

Wow, Story, way to rip off one my ideas. But I do like the turret idea, sounds fun.

[Story4]

Wow, Story, way to rip off one my ideas. But I do like the turret idea, sounds fun.

I didn't rip it off, i only read the first post. And it's not like it hasn't been used before (for ex torchlight 2 blob has a similar system). So please shut up.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Story4

[SolluxCaptorTA]

True, but please read the whole forum before posting a comment that might have already been said. It's not even a page yet.

And I do like the turret ideas, more good stuff like that is what Devs need to hear (and hopefully implement).

[EchoLG]

I didn't rip it off, i only read the first post. And it's not like it hasn't been used before (for ex torchlight 2 blob has a similar system). So please STFU.

Please try and keep it to a friendly level with minimum profanity :c

Someone said something about place holders, well, I don't know, but hopefully you are right and they are getting a major update which will make em interesting to fight.

[Story4]

True, but please read the whole forum before posting a comment that might have already been said. It's not even a page yet.

And I do like the turret ideas, more good stuff like that is what Devs need to hear (and hopefully implement).

When everyone will read 10 pages of a topic to post a comment then ok i will too, but until then i can comment just on the first comment of the person who made the topic. And since the whole split thing is pretty popular and you said that i ripped you off is pretty insulting. You could have said "oh i had a similar ideea" or something like that but no you decided to a snob about it.

EDIT:@EchoLG: If you consider that my comment contains profanity then i will change it although i don't really see anything that insulting.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Story4

[Barnago]

I could not possibly disagree more with the person who said earlier that shooters can never have interesting bosses because of AI limitations. That kind of argument is like saying MMORPG bosses can never be more interesting than a tank and spank. There is tremendous latitude for this type of game to introduce unique mechanics for a boss that allow players to fight them in new and interesting ways.

I challenge anyone to go farm up the Frost parts from Lech Kril and tell me the bosses in this game are interesting or fun. If I am in serious danger of running out of ammunition because I am just standing there dumping bullets into a boss while it impotently spins around trying to melee attack one guy who is distracting it for 5 minutes, then there is a problem.

[GTG3000]

Well, if you ask me, Hyena was a breath of fresh air when I attempted to beat it first time (after farming for so, so long), since it's shields actually require players to communicate enough to at least tell eachother "Shoot him after me to keep his shields from recharging.", but I guess he is a bullet sponge.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Yeah. No advanced tactics, just max, continual DPS.