Extreme Lack Of Difficulty

[neKroMancer]

Charge in and find the nearest cover. Do not leave the cover under any circumstance, even if the enemy is stabbing your best friend in the face. /nod

So it's PlanB :D

[MJ12]

Exactly, we had fun trying to 'beat' the game.

Ah yes, back in the day where installing the game was considered part of the gameplay, where game companies made money by making impossible games and charging you $1.99 a minute on their hintlines (yes, back in the day they had skeevier practices than DLC. At least EA lets you finish their game without paying money), where 'difficulty' meant 'random bulls**t instant deaths out of nowhere', where the logic was borrowed from arcade games where you made the game as ballbustingly hard as possible so you could squeeze out more money from ten year olds.

Look, you can say you 'had fun' but I say that's a combination of Stockholm syndrome and nostalgia. When the game gives you a little bit of respite in between all the $&*^-punchings you start to love it unconditionally and defend it to the death. Whereas other games actually give you, you know, fun, which you devalue because the game didn't punch you in the $&*^ twenty times.

I mean, those games were fun when I played them but looking at them without nostalgia goggles half the 'fun' in them was the sunk cost fallacy. Basically. "I spent 10 hours being punched in the $&*^ by this game I AM GOING TO GET MY MONEY'S WORTH OF FUN OR ELSE". And really, that's terrible practice.

[Keiar]

lol, i see funny comments in this topic

great mods are cheating, i was like wtf lol how old are u kid?

[SlyBoots]

never shall we forget that touchymoldsnake is the people! the people need challenge in games because... uh... else the people are gonna do something else! (oh noes!) and why is there an extreme (read in announcer voice) lack of difficulty and challenge? because the people can use maxed modded guns, nyxs chaos, trinitys link, rhinos iron skin and lokis invisibility! and more! the lack of difficulty is so extreme it'll blow your mind! DE, quick, punch the people! replace every grineer with kela! every infested shall evolve to either an ancient disruptor or toxic ancient! let the corpus send in only shockwave & railgun moas with some shield & leech ospreys for good measure! be quick, before the extreme lack of challenge atrophies the hardcore gaming muscles of the people! OMG, do something before it's too late!

Edited April 8, 2013 by SlyBoots

[RedEye88]

Well i feel sad for buying even founder support (buyers remorse eh) cause theres nothing to do for over a week now i dont even log in the game no more.

Im not hating just static the current situation i finished my warframe and weps and there is 0 reason to log back.

I need very very challenging upcoming updates,new monsters even in the current existing mission with challengin powers and tricks.

TO BE HONEST ID RATHER FIGHT 10-20 Minibosses in eveyroom i just dont wanna see those 1 shot everything.

So bored right now.

[Aerensiniac]

This topic deserves a downvote. You are welcome.

BTW, if you are rushing the level you are not showing respect to DE.

WE DON'T NEED YOU IN THIS SUPER EASY GAME.

You are seemingly collecting down votes yourself just fine.

I will give you one too. You are welcome.

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

Yes. I equated giving yourself a bonus to health and damage via hacking, to giving yourself identicle increases via a game mechanic.

Don't like it? How about this, I'll re-work it for you.

You're playing Gears of War 6, and after the tutorial you choose easy difficulty. All this choice does is make you have +300% health and +300% damage. Same number of enemies, same AI, same levels and ammo drops. Now you complain that the extra health makes the game feel too easy.

Warframe is amazing because it lets you choose your gameplay flavor.

Do you want combat to be fast-paced and murderous? Takes tons of +dmg mods and abstain from using +hp or +shields. Now everyone (including you) dies quickly and the blood is everywhere.

Want slower paced gameplay? Ignore damage mods, but pack yourself with +hp and +shields. Now both you AND the enemies take a lot to go down, making repositioning during a fight a feasible tactic to execute. Also, bring +ammo mods for longevity.

Want to play easy mode? Mods your weapons AND warframe for tons of +everything! You'll be better than the enemies in every way, and probably encounter few situations that genuinely challenge you. Perfect for people who have slow reflexes, bad eye sight, or other factors which limit them from becoming the top 20% playerbase in terms of skill.

Really, it's all about having the freedom to build the game you feel like playing. Please, exercise your right, your creativity, and design your own difficulty.

This actually sums up what I thought was the point of the mod system in a nutshell. I view the mods available as themselves being the "difficulty slider" of warframe. Tailoring your mods to your preferred playstyle and skill level means setting your own level of difficulty....a very elegant solution to the problem faced by devs in making a game that is accessible to all without excluding those who are not "hardcore" gamers.

Not sure if this was the original intention, huge kudos if it was, but it does work out quite nicely.

Personally it's not the difficulty I have any issues with but rather (so far, and I've not got that far yet) the lack of teamwork that is required, and the corresponding lack of specialist roles in a group. The very fact that "rushing" is even possible in a group game shows that teamwork is simply not required in most missions. This is more than likely going to be the one thing that gets me to quit if it doesn't change to some degree in the future. I like playing in a defined role (support in most games) and sincerely hope that DE come up with some ideas to drastically promote team play. Naturally it's still beta and early days yet, so I'd be very surprised if things didn't improve with time. Solo play is fun though, particularly with a low level frame and barely any mods, thank DE for revives :)

Edited April 8, 2013 by FluffyBunnySlippers

[Nevara]

Ah yes, back in the day where installing the game was considered part of the gameplay, where game companies made money by making impossible games and charging you $1.99 a minute on their hintlines (yes, back in the day they had skeevier practices than DLC. At least EA lets you finish their game without paying money), where 'difficulty' meant 'random bulls**t instant deaths out of nowhere', where the logic was borrowed from arcade games where you made the game as ballbustingly hard as possible so you could squeeze out more money from ten year olds.

Look, you can say you 'had fun' but I say that's a combination of Stockholm syndrome and nostalgia. When the game gives you a little bit of respite in between all the $&*^-punchings you start to love it unconditionally and defend it to the death. Whereas other games actually give you, you know, fun, which you devalue because the game didn't punch you in the $&*^ twenty times.

I mean, those games were fun when I played them but looking at them without nostalgia goggles half the 'fun' in them was the sunk cost fallacy. Basically. "I spent 10 hours being punched in the $&*^ by this game I AM GOING TO GET MY MONEY'S WORTH OF FUN OR ELSE". And really, that's terrible practice.

Err, not really. Maybe you have been playing 'punch me in the $&*^' games, but not everyone was, also, if installing the game was a challenge for you, then it's probably best for you to not play games full stop. This game is too easy, the challenge needs to be greater. That's all that needs to be said.

[SlyBoots]

ever heard of hyperbole, nevara? it's used to get a point accross... this game may be too easy if you have weapons with maxed mods, now do tell how many have.

Edited April 8, 2013 by SlyBoots

[Nevara]

ever heard of hyperbole, nevara? it's used to get a point accross... this game may be too easy if you have weapons with maxed mods, now do tell how many have.

Yeah no, He's trying to dilute the point that games were harder, by saying that they were difficult to install? Or that we must have some sort of 'stockholm syndrome' or that the only reason we kept on playing, was because we invested so much time in it? Really? rubbish, alot (myself included) kept at these games because we liked the challenge, and guess what, we had fun trying to beat it. So a challenging game, was...fun? Yup, that's right.

As for how many weapons with maxed mods i have, 0. That's right, 0. And i still steam through it.

[MJ12]

Err, not really. Maybe you have been playing 'punch me in the $&*^' games, but not everyone was, also, if installing the game was a challenge for you, then it's probably best for you to not play games full stop. This game is too easy, the challenge needs to be greater. That's all that needs to be said.

Oh man. You're someone who talks about oldschool games and doesn't even realize that "installing the game is part of the gameplay" is basically a 100% accurate description of every game older than 1996? The funny thing here is that I get the feeling that most of the people who think oldschool games were so great because of their "challenge" haven't actually played them much.

Where were you when I was configuring Sound Blaster IRQs? Where were you when Sierra Online's hintline was a thing? The funny thing is that if you take away the nostalgia goggles most of those games weren't challenging either once you got past the bulls**t. They just had really dumb bulls**t difficulty decisions which they made arbitrarily to encourage you to use the hint lines/extend the gameplay by forcing you to try things over and over again.

"This game is too easy, the challenge needs to be greater. That's all that needs to be said." is wrong. You are not 100% of the audience. By virtue of being guys demanding less accessibility (due to greater challenge) you need a way better case than just assuming "more challenge = more fun" for most of the audience is axiomatic. Especially since you could just take an unmodded frame and weapons and there's your challenge. Or play solo. It's trivial to challenge yourself. Having fun when the game is too hard for you? Another thing entirely, and nearly impossible.

[Karosu]

IT doesnt really need a difficulty boost that much, its how the game has ended up being played the gear needs to be leveled and the lower missions are repeated and it becomes easy with a single high level mid mastery weapon, go try playing a pluto planet solo with only mid mastery level gear, tell me if you still think its easy.

Besides, what they really need is more enemy variety.

Flamethrower troops for example.

The enemies need other gimics that arent geared towards slowing people down, because lets face it, thats what all the gimics are, stagger knockdown, lazers, roll balls, vomit attacks...

Edited April 8, 2013 by Karosu

[neKroMancer]

All of these complains can be alleviated by making all nodes in the game with difficulty slider.

Accessibility for all players while remaining hard for some who want it. Varied droprate/length of mission/credit gain. Similar to ME3MP bronze/silver/gold/platinum difficulty. however, balancing these difficulty is going to be one of the most boring thing for DE.

[Aerensiniac]

Oh man. You're someone who talks about oldschool games and doesn't even realize that "installing the game is part of the gameplay" is basically a 100% accurate description of every game older than 1996? The funny thing here is that I get the feeling that most of the people who think oldschool games were so great because of their "challenge" haven't actually played them much.

Where were you when I was configuring Sound Blaster IRQs? Where were you when Sierra Online's hintline was a thing? The funny thing is that if you take away the nostalgia goggles most of those games weren't challenging either once you got past the bulls**t. They just had really dumb bulls**t difficulty decisions which they made arbitrarily to encourage you to use the hint lines/extend the gameplay by forcing you to try things over and over again.

"This game is too easy, the challenge needs to be greater. That's all that needs to be said." is wrong. You are not 100% of the audience. By virtue of being guys demanding less accessibility (due to greater challenge) you need a way better case than just assuming "more challenge = more fun" for most of the audience is axiomatic. Especially since you could just take an unmodded frame and weapons and there's your challenge. Or play solo. It's trivial to challenge yourself. Having fun when the game is too hard for you? Another thing entirely, and nearly impossible.

Sorry to break it to you MJ, but i have leveled up my freshly unpacked, unranked frost on Eris, half of the time alone cause nobody joined on me.

You speak of challenge and that the difficulty level is not required to be increased.

I ask you what challenge are you talking about.

Please think long and hard cause im genuinely curious. What is it that you and your "less skilled" minions call a challenge in the game?

That you can die if you stand in a crossfire? Sorry, what?

By these standards life is truly an adventure. Even walking or getting dressed is a challenge cause what if... i dont know, you are going fall out the window while trying to get your shirt on?

Edited April 8, 2013 by DERebecca
Removed Insults

[mhd995]

All of these complains can be alleviated by making all nodes in the game with difficulty slider.

Accessibility for all players while remaining hard for some who want it. Varied droprate/length of mission/credit gain. Similar to ME3MP bronze/silver/gold/platinum difficulty. however, balancing these difficulty is going to be one of the most boring thing for DE.

Pretty much. If you think the missions are too hard, you pick easy. If you think they're too easy, you pick hard. However, I don't think the community is currently big enough to warrant missions being split threeways.

[Ghobe]

Yo MJ12, got a question for ya. Why is it that those of us that want a challenge supplied by the developer of our games aren't allowed to have it? Why is it that we aren't allowed to continue pushing ourselves towards greatness? What makes you think that the missions are impossible without mods? As long as you're doing enough damage to bypass shields, you're fine. There's no tracking weapons, there's no put yourself in danger to fight mechanics, there's no real difficulty in the game. Everything is the exact same thing. Gun it down, move to the next room gun it down, move to the next room gun it down...or hell..just run through it and ignore everything, when you get to the objective, collect everything up and use your level 4 skill and watch it ALL die, then run through the rest of the map ignoring everything and be extracted...woo...so exciting and challenging right? /eyeroll The only things that have been remotely challenging was when I fought 3 commanders at once that constantly kept teleporting me into the backs of rooms, and that was more aggravating/annoying than challenging.

Do you honestly think that the market currently features demented people as a majority that cant seek cover?

Don't use that point...I've seen too many wow "raiders" in my days...ugh...making me have flashbacks here man.../shudder

[Kanaris]

Yeah no, He's trying to dilute the point that games were harder, by saying that they were difficult to install? Or that we must have some sort of 'stockholm syndrome' or that the only reason we kept on playing, was because we invested so much time in it? Really? rubbish, alot (myself included) kept at these games because we liked the challenge, and guess what, we had fun trying to beat it. So a challenging game, was...fun? Yup, that's right.

As for how many weapons with maxed mods i have, 0. That's right, 0. And i still steam through it.

I get the feeling you never played the games that MJ12 is talking about. Strongly.

Have you ever sat in front of a Commodore 64? Did you play games before Windows was a thing?

Yo MJ12, got a question for ya. Why is it that those of us that want a challenge supplied by the developer of our games aren't allowed to have it? Why is it that we aren't allowed to continue pushing ourselves towards greatness? What makes you think that the missions are impossible without mods?

If greatness is your goal, video games are not the way to go about it. You are not badass or cool for being good at games.

Why should a developer cater to one subset of players? It can't perfectly cater to them all but there is a compromise.

For you, perhaps, the game is too easy, but for someone else it's too hard. That's the way of the world.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Kanaris

[Nevara]

Oh man. You're someone who talks about oldschool games and doesn't even realize that "installing the game is part of the gameplay" is basically a 100% accurate description of every game older than 1996? The funny thing here is that I get the feeling that most of the people who think oldschool games were so great because of their "challenge" haven't actually played them much.

Yup, i was there, sierra hotline, i called it, so what? What about it? All games were like that? Really? REALLY? No, they were not. The 'challenge doesn't include not actually playing the game, that should be obvious.

Where were you when I was configuring Sound Blaster IRQs? Where were you when Sierra Online's hintline was a thing?

To busy playing the games? To say that it was a 'huge' thing is a massive exaggeration.

The funny thing is that if you take away the nostalgia goggles most of those games weren't challenging either once you got past the bulls**t. They just had really dumb bulls**t difficulty decisions which they made arbitrarily to encourage you to use the hint lines/extend the gameplay by forcing you to try things over and over again.

Most games arn't challenging, once you have mastered them, i played them, i mastered them, and then they became to easy, at least they didn't start of easy.

"This game is too easy, the challenge needs to be greater. That's all that needs to be said." is wrong. You are not 100% of the audience.

And? Neither are you 100% of the audience, there is a group out there, me included that would like games to be a challenge. Problem?

By virtue of being guys demanding less accessibility (due to greater challenge) you need a way better case than just assuming "more challenge = more fun"

Nope, i really don't, the thing is you can acess it aswell, you just need get better. The point is its easy for us, you can play whatever you want to play, repeat mercury if that's your thing. Whatever..but some of us would like to try something harder, a challenge if you will, we find those things fun.

Especially since you could just take an unmodded frame and weapons and there's your challenge.

Err no. That game makers make the game a challenge, by challenging the game we can say, we beat the game. Why are you trying to even argue this? It's absolutely pointless of you to come in and say 'go naked and fight' to excuse the developers not making the game harder, no blame on them as this is an young game, hence why we are suggesting that they make it harder, and what do you know..they listened..and are putting in a difficulty setting. Fancy that.

It's trivial to challenge yourself.

Is it? Really? What about a man who runs to better himself, he is challenging himself to go on, And that's trivial? Nonsense, it's relative, he doesn't find it trivial. But we are not challenging ourselves so to speak, we are challenging the game.

Having fun when the game is too hard for you? Another thing entirely, and nearly impossible.

For you maybe, don't speak for everyone else.

On topic, the game will get harder when difficulty settings appear, 'how' it will get harder is something we will find out.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Nevara

[Nevara]

I get the feeling you never played the games that MJ12 is talking about. Strongly.

Have you ever sat in front of a Commodore 64? Did you play games before Windows was a thing?

I actually had a Commodore 64, Amiga, lost vikings, buggy boy, beast i think it was, another world, and so on and so forth. So you obviously don't know what you are on about.

[Ghobe]

On topic, the game will get harder when difficulty settings appear, 'how' it will get harder is something we will find out.

We can only hope it isn't something as simple as "more enemies, more health, more damage" :\

[Kanaris]

I actually had a Commodore 64, Amiga, lost vikings, buggy boy, beast i think it was, another world, and so on and so forth. So you obviously don't know what you are on about.

So you know all about games that were content-locked with instruction manuals and having to manually set sound card settings. That's good.

That means you also know that it was more often than not a tremendous pain in the &#! and before you could even start thinking about the difficulty in those games you had to jump through your own A****** just to make them run. That's the point.

If you can honestly tell me that a game like Blackthorne was not insanely difficult, then I suppose I should just consider you the ultimate gamer who knows how to play anything the instant they pick it up.

In the days before Gamefaqs and wikis when you had to figure out everything yourself or pay someone to tell you how to play the game, things weren't always wonderful.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Kanaris

[mhd995]

We can only hope it isn't something as simple as "more enemies, more health, more damage" :\

It probably will be initially (which I don't mind). Would be nice though if somewhere along the line certain enemies would do or not do some moves (e.g. Shield Lancer's shield bash) depending on the difficulty setting. That and you could always adjust enemy accuracy, fire rate and general response time.

Edited April 8, 2013 by mhd995

[Nevara]

We can only hope it isn't something as simple as "more enemies, more health, more damage" :\

I hope not, a better idea would be to have the enemys more dynamic, for example the sentinals, they pause when they are about to use their abilitys, let them be fluid like the stalker.

[SlyBoots]

As for how many weapons with maxed mods i have, 0. That's right, 0. And i still steam through it.

curious, what do you have and use? btw, the point of hyperbole is, that it isn't to be taken at face value so... while it is true that overcoming challenges does provide satisfaction, his point is that this knowledge was and is used to hook people to get to their purse.

Can we please stop making what seems to be $&*&*#(%& or severely handicapped as normal, fun, challenging or even hard to play?

No offense, but you are basically flat out asking the developers to adjust game difficulty to people suffering from a late stage of Alzheimer.

Do you honestly think that the market currently features demented people as a majority that cant seek cover and just sit in front of their monitor drooling while being shot at?

reported.

Edited April 8, 2013 by SlyBoots

[Nevara]

So you know all about games that were content-locked with instruction manuals and having to manually set sound card settings. That's good.

That means you also know that it was more often than not a tremendous pain in the &#! and before you could even start thinking about the difficulty in those games you had to jump through your own A****** just to make them run. That's the point.

If you can honestly tell me that a game like Blackthorne was not insanely difficult, then I suppose I should just consider you the ultimate gamer.

Whoa hang on a minute here, talk about missing the point, the point is that the GAMES were more difficult, getting them to run or whatever, has nothing whatsoever to do with it, as it's not part of the actual game now, is it?