Is It Just Me Or Are Ancients A Bit Op?

[Karosu]

Not trying to give a 'i'm pro' speech.

But i wish they would be less in numbers, but much harder to kill. Not simply by giving them much more hp.

Think about the Tank in left4dead, it's faster than you, you can't escape it. The only way to survive is to kill it before it kills you. This concept is brilliant.

And it's exciting. Seriously, when have you been excited in Warframe?

Hah, no. Id rather not see how many hits a lvl 120 ancient tank poisoner takes to die

MAYBE as a boss concept.

I use a rhino and i can say sometimes its frustrating a bit on defense missions but thats the only times, and even then only when they get around wave 20 ish. Most of the time what i end up doing is taking my anti infected scindo and doing a jump smash in their midst trying to knock down as many as possible, maybe execute 2 rinse repeat, allies running around shooting their feet for the 100% damage. (head only does 75%). easy to mop up if you use the right stuff. one of my allies running round with a shotty blasting feet off.

[TheSmash]

I don't think anyone questioned if you are or aren't good at the game... And when i go solo i have no prob with infested while playing Rhino, but in defense missions you can't deny that they are pretty hard to go against especially since 1 hit from the disruptor for example will leave you completely vulnerable.

I can see how it would be tougher on a defence mission. I won't deny that they can be challenging in higher numbers.

Exterminatus implied that I'm not as good as I think I am at the game.

People who post that they can easly dodge Ancients anytime are just liers and showing how "pro" they are.

Both Aggh and I said that we could dodge it easily. I was just stating my personal experience.

No, they do. Do you realise that dodging after they have already swung is impossible because the attack is momental. Dodging earlier means you can escape their range quickier. Also everything you wrote is OBVIOUS tips when fightning ONE Ancient. I'd like to see how you dodge 3+ Ancients on defence mission.

I have, in fact, taken on 2 Toxic Ancients, a Disruptor Ancient and their merry band of Chargers, Runners and Leapers all at the same time and prevailed. They were all about level 40, and I was using a level 30 Loki. I had no freeze or fire mods on my weapons. You make a pretty poor argument. Anyway, why are you being so hostile? I've tried to be as constructive as possible, and you're shooting me down.

Appologies to anyone else in this thread; I know this is off-topic.

[Story4]

Staggering them with a normal attack before you start charge attacking means they won't be able to use their tentacle on you. Knockdowns are helpful too.

AKbolto can be crafted. I haven't spent a single cent on weapons :|

Ah yes, i am sorry. I saw the price in the market saying 4000 creds and 50 plat and i thought that you need 4000 creds to buy it not one or the other. Terribly sorry.

You are obviously not as good as you might think you are, and, just for your information, Akbolto can be made without using platinum. You just have to build two Boltos, then build the Akbolto and the blueprints are purchasable for credits...

I already apologized, didn't realized the price thing. Also i like to think that even though I'm no pro since i can hit a headhot on a moving target with the paris that i am pretty good.

[fauxhb]

I already apologized, didn't realized the price thing. Also i like to think that even though I'm no pro since i can hit a headhot on a moving target with the paris that i am pretty good.

killing 1 mob every 2-3 seconds (that's the charge time, right?) is not that efficient.

do you really want this game to focus solely on holding W and mouse button all the time and just getting to the extraction? that's what adds to the excitement. you see 2 toxics and 3 disruptors, you cannot simply gun them down, you have to take measures and help your teammates if they're down.

[TheSmash]

killing 1 mob every 2-3 seconds (that's the charge time, right?) is not that efficient.

do you really want this game to focus solely on holding W and mouse button all the time and just getting to the extraction? that's what adds to the excitement. you see 2 toxics and 3 disruptors, you cannot simply gun them down, you have to take measures and help your teammates if they're down.

So true. I find that Paris is most useful on Grineer, because Infested are much harder to hit since they move so fast, and the Corpus Moas sponge damage with their shields. Most Grineer just go down with one headshot with an unmodded Paris.

And we need variation like that, or else it'd end up monotonous.

[Story4]

killing 1 mob every 2-3 seconds (that's the charge time, right?) is not that efficient.

do you really want this game to focus solely on holding W and mouse button all the time and just getting to the extraction? that's what adds to the excitement. you see 2 toxics and 3 disruptors, you cannot simply gun them down, you have to take measures and help your teammates if they're down.

I don't think that I've said that i use the Paris for infested, i just said that i can score a hs with it on a moving target. I know that when you see 2 toxics and 3 disruptors that you cannot simply gun them down and i try to play smart using my abilities with Ember or Rhino and running, but on defense missions where you have to defend the cryopod and you have 10 ancients heading towards you you can't really do much. Also the fact that they can know you down also adds to the frustration. And the problem is mostly that they can come from any direction, even in other missions. I cleaned a room and there was no way out, 5 second later a disruptor came from it hit me from behind and i died because crawlers swarmed me...

Why do you guys have to always act superior to the others? We've all played shooters before and it's not like this game is a very complicated one.

[LordLokai]

i think disrupter needs to drain shields or power not both aside from that they arent that tough unless in groups and even then pretty manageable... only infested i die to regularly are chargers.

[MJ12]

Ancient attacks are dodgeable, I can confirm. They do require either a dodge maneuver or being frozen though.

The problem with Ancients isn't that. The problem is:

1. They're trivial unless you make a mistake/get bad spawn luck

2. They often turn missions into utter fusterclucks if you DO make that mistake

3. Unrecoverable fusterclucks aren't very fun.

Ancients should be more dangerous but less punishing. By "dangerous" I mean they're more likely to deal damage and deal more of it, while by "less punishing" I mean things like "Ancient Disruptors shouldn't remove your energy which doesn't regenerate quickly if at all".

They're not hard, just reeeeally aggravating.

[Professor_Loophole]

The issue at hand is not how hard it is to kill a Disruptor it is of the effect of their attack and the number you have to face.

The Disruptor's attack does more to effect the player than any other foe in the game minus bosses who are meant to take 4 players to kill.

One hit from them distorts your vision limiting you effect weapons to melee, Removes your Sheild, and Depletes your energy. now if a disruptor had 3 attacks each doing one of these they would be a pain but not considered OP. The fact that one attack leaves you that vulnerable even if you can one hit them is in my opinion unbalanced.

[touchmyoldsnake]

The game is already too easy, stop trying to ask the devs to remove the only slightly threatening mob from the game. Oh no, he hit me and my energy/shields are gone, I can't press 4 and win everything forever! Those ancients are the only thing currently making the infested a threat at all; nerfing them means you can still use abilities after their strike and still be perfectly safe.

Honestly, I think the ancients need a buff; give them 25% damage reduction to bullets, and I think we got a decent mob here.

[MJ12]

Anyways my thoughts on Ancients:

Like all enemies, they need more than one attack for variety. So let's give them a few.

First, they should have a charge, to close the distance. This would require them to have distance between you and them (it'd have a minimum range). Instead of, however, stopping at the end and tentacle-handing you for piddly damage (like 30 on Jupiter), it should just slam right through you and knock you down for heavy damage (like... 150 on Jupiter.) However, if you can dodge at the last moment and the Ancient hits a wall going full tilt, they knock themselves down and make themselves vulnerable.

Their tentacle-arm should be their mid-range attack, dealing moderate damage (like a Charger's DPS-yes, that's moderate for a rare, elite enemy) with no real stagger chance. Plenty of other stuff staggers. You can blow their arm off to stop them from doing this. The 'limb removal' mechanic for Infested is really awesome and gets basically no real use. They might also have a low-damage 'pull' attack that can be dodged.

If you get into melee range, they can headbutt you for high(er) damage and stagger.

Finally, if you blow their legs off (you should be able to do that) and they still manage to get in range they should self-destruct, like Runners, which will send you flying and also deal a crapton of damage. This makes their literal Achilles Heel a bit more of a strategic decision, as if they're in close an Ancient brewing up might get you killed.

They should also be able to launch spores at range, or drop them at their feet as auras. These spores/auras would provide their special effects:

1. Disruptor: Shuts down your shields and prevents ability use temporarily

2. Toxic: Creates health-sapping toxic clouds

3. Healer: Deals damage to you, heals all Infested nearby

[Madotsuki]

Anyways my thoughts on Ancients:

Like all enemies, they need more than one attack for variety. So let's give them a few.

First, they should have a charge, to close the distance. This would require them to have distance between you and them (it'd have a minimum range). Instead of, however, stopping at the end and tentacle-handing you for piddly damage (like 30 on Jupiter), it should just slam right through you and knock you down for heavy damage (like... 150 on Jupiter.) However, if you can dodge at the last moment and the Ancient hits a wall going full tilt, they knock themselves down and make themselves vulnerable.

Their tentacle-arm should be their mid-range attack, dealing moderate damage (like a Charger's DPS-yes, that's moderate for a rare, elite enemy) with no real stagger chance. Plenty of other stuff staggers. You can blow their arm off to stop them from doing this. The 'limb removal' mechanic for Infested is really awesome and gets basically no real use. They might also have a low-damage 'pull' attack that can be dodged.

If you get into melee range, they can headbutt you for high(er) damage and stagger.

Finally, if you blow their legs off (you should be able to do that) and they still manage to get in range they should self-destruct, like Runners, which will send you flying and also deal a crapton of damage. This makes their literal Achilles Heel a bit more of a strategic decision, as if they're in close an Ancient brewing up might get you killed.

They should also be able to launch spores at range, or drop them at their feet as auras. These spores/auras would provide their special effects:

1. Disruptor: Shuts down your shields and prevents ability use temporarily

2. Toxic: Creates health-sapping toxic clouds

3. Healer: Deals damage to you, heals all Infested nearby

I like the ideas of having them have multiple attacks, although their charge must not have a tight turning ability. Think the Charger from left 4 dead 2. Also loving the idea of dismembering them. On the subject of spores, i actually don't think it is a good idea. It would be better to have "spitters" as slightly uncommon mooks, like leapers, instead of giving it to the tank-like Ancients. Also, Toxic should be the only one to be able to make a toxic cloud aoe, giving the other Ancients AoE attacks seems unneccessary.

And of course, the absolute most important part that needs to be nerfed about Ancients, is their spawn rate. As i said before, no more than Grineer Heavies please.

[lonelydrone]

Ok so Ancient healer isn't so OP, but ancient disruptor takes down your shields AND leaves you without energy so you cannot escape if he hits you and you can't even get close to the toxic ancient because he kills you and they also have alot of armor. This wouldn't really be a problem if they didn't spawn by the dozens! And when 2 ancient disruptors hit you your pretty much dead.

Compared to the grineer bombard for example, he is as dangerous as an ancient healer, but you maybe get 2 or 3 max, not 7 at a time! Not to mention that the other grineer lancers or troopers do not stun you, but if an ancient gets a hit on you other crawlers, leapers or runners can get closer to you and stun you even more!

One thing that can be done is either to remove the ancients armor so that even if they spawn alot they can be dealt with rapidly or just make them spawn less.

you're totally right, bombards and heavies should spawn in packs to balance this OPness!!!!!

+1

[Aukerai]

Ancients really arent that bad.

Disruptors aren't hard to kill. In Loki, Stealth, heat swords twice, done.

In Ember, use any frost mod, Ability 3, melee, done.

In Trinity (yes, Trinity) throw energy debuff, shoot foot/melee, done.

The main problem with disruptors is that occasionally they'll get a hit they really don't deserve (ie. just after a roll, when your standing back up from a stunlock that 99.9% of mobs seem to have), but aside from that, they aren't a problem, even on my caster classes.

Healers are a joke. an actual joke. They rarely heal mobs for enough to make them worth killing, and their health seems to far lower than other Ancients. Even in packs of 20 late game defence (I sh*t you not), just grab a big melee weapon and start swinging.

Toxics, are easy when dealt with in packs of 1-2. Just keep your distance, and shoot them in the foot (frost mods help. or get them to stand in Ember's third / etc).

The problem with Ancients, isn't the Ancients themselves, it's just I see them more than frakking common mobs. (esp in late defence missions) 9 Toxics in a row is not fun. (although my group decided to get a Rhino just for Toxics...)

If you want to deal with a single, non toxic, use heavy strike melee, It stunlocks them until they die...

[Story4]

you're totally right, bombards and heavies should spawn in packs to balance this OPness!!!!!

+1

Honestly, if they did spawn like that i would be ok with it!

Ancients really arent that bad.

Disruptors aren't hard to kill. In Loki, Stealth, heat swords twice, done.

In Ember, use any frost mod, Ability 3, melee, done.

In Trinity (yes, Trinity) throw energy debuff, shoot foot/melee, done.

The main problem with disruptors is that occasionally they'll get a hit they really don't deserve (ie. just after a roll, when your standing back up from a stunlock that 99.9% of mobs seem to have), but aside from that, they aren't a problem, even on my caster classes.

Healers are a joke. an actual joke. They rarely heal mobs for enough to make them worth killing, and their health seems to far lower than other Ancients. Even in packs of 20 late game defence (I sh*t you not), just grab a big melee weapon and start swinging.

Toxics, are easy when dealt with in packs of 1-2. Just keep your distance, and shoot them in the foot (frost mods help. or get them to stand in Ember's third / etc).

The problem with Ancients, isn't the Ancients themselves, it's just I see them more than frakking common mobs. (esp in late defence missions) 9 Toxics in a row is not fun. (although my group decided to get a Rhino just for Toxics...)

If you want to deal with a single, non toxic, use heavy strike melee, It stunlocks them until they die...

Well they aren't a problem if you face them solo especially if you have a place to run, but the thing is that you can clear a room, go in front and try to shoot while going back and then some ancients respawn in the same room that tou just cleared 5 seconds ago! and if your running from 10 chargers and a disruptor hits you and knocks you your pretty much dead.

Also in infested missions it wouldn't be a problem if you are premade, but when you are with random people with random warframes and none of them has nyx, or rhino and ember don't know what to do then your pretty much done for.

[Aukerai]

Honestly, if they did spawn like that i would be ok with it!

Well they aren't a problem if you face them solo especially if you have a place to run, but the thing is that you can clear a room, go in front and try to shoot while going back and then some ancients respawn in the same room that tou just cleared 5 seconds ago! and if your running from 10 chargers and a disruptor hits you and knocks you your pretty much dead.

Also in infested missions it wouldn't be a problem if you are premade, but when you are with random people with random warframes and none of them has nyx, or rhino and ember don't know what to do then your pretty much done for.

I see where people complain about Ancients, but Disruptors are easy enough to dodge, and healers are, let's face it, a joke. Toxics are the only big threat. Just carry Fire/Frost mods on your weapons (you should have at least one elemental mod, their just too good to pass up). Chargers aren't much of a problem, they just kind of fall over if you shoot them.

I can see your point though. I haven't played with randoms much yet (I play with a group), but I kinda sit in Ember anyway, so I'm always CCing the crap out of Infested. Or Loki, decoy + Invis + run around power attacking for 1800 damage.

[PaleMinerva]

The biggest issue I see with them is how little EXP they give compared to, say, Grineer elite units, considering how much damage they soak.

[Story4]

I see where people complain about Ancients, but Disruptors are easy enough to dodge, and healers are, let's face it, a joke. Toxics are the only big threat. Just carry Fire/Frost mods on your weapons (you should have at least one elemental mod, their just too good to pass up). Chargers aren't much of a problem, they just kind of fall over if you shoot them.

I can see your point though. I haven't played with randoms much yet (I play with a group), but I kinda sit in Ember anyway, so I'm always CCing the crap out of Infested. Or Loki, decoy + Invis + run around power attacking for 1800 damage.

I agree that alone they aren't hard to handle, but in groups they are very dangerous. And to me the Grineer special units are like ancients healers honestly. I switch to my lato vandal who has a stun mod and a freeze mod and they don't even pose a threat because they stop shooting and it takes me maybe 2 or 3 seconds longer to kill them compared to the rest of the grineer. Which is why IMO Ancients are OP, because the spanw ALOT more than Grineer special units. If Grinner special units spawned as much as ancient infested then i wouldn't have a problem with it, but as it is the disruptor is more dangerous than a grineer bombard.

[Anelyn]

That's why your squad needs to know what is doing. While someone like a Rhino for example is holding the frontline of the zerg, you have a sniper or a loki / Ash teleport at back and take the ancients down. Or you mind control one of them with Nyx making all others to attack that one giving you time to deal with the minions. There's plenty of combos to do with different warframes.

Ofc if you focus on the dogs / runners and let the ancients and chargers charge you, you will face a quick demise :)

[Endrance]

They're strong but nothing much. Yesterday i just vanquished 2 Ancient Healer with fang at +0 Rank... Let's not forget Fang deals 50% less damage to Infected

Edited April 9, 2013 by Endrance

[Story4]

They're strong but nothing much. Yesterday i just vanquished 2 Ancient Healer with fang at +0 Rank... Let's not forget Fang deals 50% less damage to Infected

Ok do that against toxic ancients.

[Torguish]

All i have to say is that these enemies are pretty much the only enemies why i die in this game. Nothing else gives me problems.

Considering the infested are rather weak and don't really have an impact when you get zerged by chargers and whatever, i think they need these ancients. I do think that they could use a little less hp.

Ancient Devourers ZERO EVERYTHING makes things interesting. Every warframe has a way to dodge this bastards punch.

The game was meant to be a little tactical, not just full on kill everything and spam skills you know.. :P They just made the Warframes a little OP at first (even more so today appearently...) which is why people are not accustomed to these kind of things i suppost. It turns the game more into a ''Work together'' from ''WHO GETS THE MOST KILLS!?''-rampage. Get what i mean?

Ancient Toxician (or whatever it is) needs some tactics to be taken down. While the poison damage is a wee bit too high, i think they are manageable. You just need to be more careful which i personally like.. :P

Personally i like the challenge these enemies give me. They are pretty much the only ones that give me a little sense of accomplishment outside of bossfights.

Also, i think that different Warframes are better in certain situations.

Volt - Corpus

Ember - Infected

Excalibur - Steady dps to everything

Frost - Most efficient against corpus or grineer i suppose.. :P

But you get the point. Hopefully.

They need tweaking to make killing them more enjoyable but i think their core is extremely fine.. :P

Ps. Grab Nyx if possible and all your problems are solved.. :D

Pps. I think the current mod system literally disencourages players to play with other Warframes because of the sucky mod equipping.. :(

[Lammeth]

Ancients' attack IS NOT DODGEABLE unless you're out of range. I've tested it multiple times. People who post that they can easly dodge Ancients anytime are just liers and showing how "pro" they are.

Weird because I dodge them all the time... From melee range.

[Story4]

I do agree that there is they are challengin. It's just that compared to the ones from corpus or grineer they are ALOT harder! Since OP means overpowered which means more powerfull i don't think that i am wrong on this assertion.

[-GG-Sinevultu]

Personally i solved my problems with ancients with Gram and/or gorgon ^^.