Another Conclave Idea.

[Vaether]

I have not done Conclave very often, simply because I don't trust myself with taking on a battle of 1v1 or 2v2. But after having gone through a rather one sided initiation for a clan a while ago, it was clear that so many things needed to be changed or improved. 

 

My initiation consisted of me taking on 5 other members, in an Elite 4 style bout of matches, to determine what rank I will be in the clan. Each member was bringing their best gear. It was me, on a Vauban (my only frame that had not just been forma'd), with just my Marelok against 5 fully ranked and modded Rhinos, and 5 fully ranked and modded Soma's. It was not pretty (only killed three of them).

 

Many of you know this already but a match in the Conclave is determined in mere seconds. It is all down to whoever is lucky enough to land a shot first, spin attack or not. Having a match based off experience and skill being determined by luck is not the kind of match I want to be a part of.

 

What I wanted to see was a match that was fair towards both sides and would have a fair outcome, a match that is purely determined by skill and skill alone. What I was thrown into was so far from that concept, it was like being level 1 on League of Legends again.

 

So I wish to propose a new system, one that does not take into account all my current weapons and frames. This system is designed to be down to what you think would be good as a loadout. I will broil it down to these few words.

 

No mods. No prime weapons or frames (and Dragon Nikana). More energy.

 

Here is where the skill will come into place. If I want to take in to a Conclave match an unmodded Loki. unmodded Ignis, unmodded akbroncos and an unmodded Scindo, then that is purely your choice. But with no mods it will be somewhat difficult since Loki is the squishiest frame in the game currently. But that is where I want skill to come into place. If they are quick enough to grab as many energy orbs as they can, you can be sure your team will feel the pain. 

 

Now, on the other side of the argument I have provided and the fact that Loki can stealth for 12 seconds unmodded. Combined with the fact he gains bonus critical hit chance whilst he is stealthed, already there are foreseeable problems with that ability. So, as a counterbalance for something like that, a lot of abilities will have to be...downsized. 

 

Already there are limitations to what most frames abilities do to other players. Take Nyx's Chaos and Vauban's Bastille for example. Those abilities already have no effect on other players, whilst having a total domination effect upon regular enemies. I am not gonna say that's good for Conclave since those abilities would wreck face if used correctly, but having minor effects on enemies would make it fairer for people who choose to use those frames in a match.

 

I wouldn't want any frames abilities to be compromised just for the sake of a few players acting like spoiled brats since someone beat them at a game. Being able to overcome a situation with critical thinking is what makes games so great for everyone.

 

For example, there is a Frost who has holed up in a corner of the map, with Snowglobe up, and is just picking off team mates from his corner. Many people would be rather angry at a situation like this, and for a good reason. But being able to trump his strategy with your own will be what makes you a smarter player then him. One option would be to just wait it out. He doesn't have infinite energy and he will be forced to come out sooner or later.

 

Another option is to have team mates help you out with the problem at hand, but by having just one other team mate to help you out can be debilitating at most times since you are both occupied by one object. By increasing the amount of players on a team, your team won't be thrown into a bad position if a team mate gets killed. It will be an advantage for their team but it will not be the end of the game. More team mates will force you to think about what moves you should take, what frame should support who and whose weapons and abilities will compliment and empower each other in ways unimaginable.

 

One thing that I love about games like Call of Duty is that it taught me all about teamwork, anger management and problem solving (rugby union did too but lets stick to video games for now). An easy way to think of it is, 'I am dead and he is not. How can I go about turning this situation around?' I'm not saying that you will feel so much better because of it, but it is a lot better then just stewing over it and getting yourself killed multiple times. 

 

The system that I would love to see is one where each player can choose a loadout that suits their play style. My favourite when testing out with friends was Vauban, Ignis, Acrid and Glaive. The 50 energy provided to me by the energy orbs was enough for 2 Tesla orbs. Combined with the wide range from the Ignis (handy since the game has goddamn space ninjas in it) and my Tesla orbs, I would wreak havoc upon my foes. 

 

Having a totally free loadout to your choice would be a fantastic option for something like this. Having your entire build determined by your own skill alone is what will make this PVP a great thing. With the large range of weapons at our disposal will provide a versatility to Conclave battles unprecedented in PVP history. 

 

No more spin to win Orthos Prime's. No more pray and spray Soma's. Just pure, unadulterated skill by your hands. How you fight is decided by you and you alone.

[Heyrey]

I think you have just come up with an amazing and game changing idea. I've always had problems in conclaves simply because I was not that far in the game, but when I had a fully modded Penta it was amazing how easy it was to kill low-level/partially-progressed players in the conclaves. For that reason I give you +1 for such a great idea coupled with an ability to write well.

[Mastikator2]

It's not whoever is lucky enough to land the first shot, it's whoever is skilled enough to land the shot. Reaction time and eye hand coordination are skills that you can train.

 

Then there's the whole cognitive psychology of predicting enemy movements and countering them, makes a HUGE difference in determining the outcome, also skill. Unless someone brought a Penta or Ash with Shurikens then skill is the main factor.

 

And don't tell me it was just your Marelok, that is a very powerful handgun you brough, you managed to kill 3 out of 5.

 

The system your proposing can be done in the dojo, just uh, do it, no need to create a whole new system to accommodate a game mode that is already supported.

[Magnagar]

I like the idea!! +1 from me

tho I wish we had also a another kind of approach to separate different game types for PvP. A more bigger and longer lasting battle between 4v4 or more. My idea would consist around games semi-like Unreal Tournement/quake 3 arena, Halo and Gears of War style of playing. Where floaty orbs and top Mastery Ranked weapons would be obtained only if someone hasnt grab it yet and being on a respawn timer. Where a huge map with anomalies of random warframe type abilities(zephyrs tornado's and hydroid's tenticles etc)would be scattered randomly around so that not only do you have to worry about players, but its environment too. Where sniping and headshots make a huge impact when players are at a long distance. Where Vauban's bounce like ability would be scattered around low floors to compete with excalibur's jump and zephyr to reach higher ground faster. Taking cover, defending a protected pod or just straight up deathwatch would be nice.

With all warframe abilities enabled and tweaking them to fit for PvP. The tricky thing would be adding some kind anti-Crowd Controlling mods/trinkets. Mods that will give you a certain percent of resisting CC effects to balance the PvE mods with PvP mods. Making it an obvious different loadout for. Trinkets that you can use off your gear wheel with a cooldown would be another ground breaking feature to breakout of those rhino stomps, bastilles, radical blinds and what not.

Say for example loki's radical disarm. Sure you can use the trinket to breakout of it, but if you can't, you are stuck with your melee weapon for the duration.

As some warframe abilities are OP, it's a good reason to stick with your team then going off solo for that particular reason. If your trapped in Vortex and have used your trinket, then the only way to survive is if your teammates stop the oppenent from destroying you while inside it.

Like gears of war, you could get 1 shotted, but if you create good strategies, it would make things interesting.

Just an idea :/

Edited July 10, 2014 by Magnagar

[.Talia.]

It's not whoever is lucky enough to land the first shot, it's whoever is skilled enough to land the shot. Reaction time and eye hand coordination are skills that you can train.

 

Then there's the whole cognitive psychology of predicting enemy movements and countering them, makes a HUGE difference in determining the outcome, also skill. Unless someone brought a Penta or Ash with Shurikens then skill is the main factor.

 

And don't tell me it was just your Marelok, that is a very powerful handgun you brough, you managed to kill 3 out of 5.

 

The system your proposing can be done in the dojo, just uh, do it, no need to create a whole new system to accommodate a game mode that is already supported.

 

I completely agree. +1

 

Warframe PvP is a Twitch Shooter with Parkour. And not a Dragon Ball Z Battle. Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, or Counter Strike, ring any bells? Go google the TTK of those games.

 

People complain about the TTK in Warframe, that there are lots of weapons capable of 1-shotting or killing in less than a second, but so what? Be stealthy and don't get shot, be fast with twitch reflexes, react quickly and shoot first, and have good aim don't miss.

 

The PvP in Warframe is about twitch reflexes, aiming and parkour, being fast and stealthy, who reacts more quickly and with better aiming, who shoots firsts or start shooting first, will most likely win. Is about being fast and precise. And yes it does take a lot of skill. Let's not forget the cognitive prediction, to know the routes your enemy take, know his moves and how to counter them.

 

In my opinion, the suggestions on this OP would turn the Conclave PvP into a boring game. But i would be open to a another PvP game mode with the proposed settings.

Edited July 10, 2014 by RexSol

[Magnagar]

I completely agree. +1

Warframe PvP is a Twitch Shooter with Parkour. And not a Dragon Ball Z Battle. Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, or Counter Strike, ring any bells? Go google the TTK of those games.

People complain about the TTK in Warframe, that there are lots of weapons capable of 1-shotting or killing in less than a second, but so what? Be stealthy and don't get shot, be fast with twitch reflexes, react quickly and shoot first, and have good aim don't miss.

The PvP in Warframe is about twitch reflexes, aiming and parkour, being fast and stealthy, who reacts more quickly and with better aiming, who shoots firsts or start shooting first, will most likely win. Is about being fast and precise. And yes it does take a lot of skill. Let's not forget the cognitive prediction, to know the routes your enemy take, know his moves and how to counter them.

In my opinion, the suggestions on this OP would turn the Conclave PvP into a boring game. But i would be open to a another PvP game mode with the proposed settings.

I like this perception. I can just imagine the activity with players and see what strategies they come up with.

Edit: I think that would be fun.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Magnagar

[Vaether]

It's not whoever is lucky enough to land the first shot, it's whoever is skilled enough to land the shot. Reaction time and eye hand coordination are skills that you can train.

 

Then there's the whole cognitive psychology of predicting enemy movements and countering them, makes a HUGE difference in determining the outcome, also skill. Unless someone brought a Penta or Ash with Shurikens then skill is the main factor.

 

And don't tell me it was just your Marelok, that is a very powerful handgun you brough, you managed to kill 3 out of 5.

 

The system your proposing can be done in the dojo, just uh, do it, no need to create a whole new system to accommodate a game mode that is already supported.

 

Now I see what I was trying to do. I think I was sort of trying to move the current Conclave towards the standard idea of shooter PVP's. That is my mistake and I appreciate your feedback.

 

Still wishing to stick to my idea though, I understand the concept of having it being decided by the smallest perception of action that occurs and it kinda still rings, in my mind, to a smaller degree of luck. For most people who have not done a Conclave match before, it it really quite daunting. One fella who came into a match with me and two friends quickly decided that it was boring as all it was was 10 seconds of playtime and another 10 seconds of waiting for the match to start.

 

It is a little different coming from a game where the only enemy who is as difficult to kill and just as mobile as actual frames is the Stalker. Adjusting your reflexes to that situation is very hard for a beginner, i.e me. Don't get me wrong, Conclave is not for the fainthearted. Just like any game it can be remarkably frustrating and hard to deal with if all the other person or people are doing as spin attacks, Penta shots or Ash shurikens. 

 

My original idea was not to change the system as an entirety, just to change it from one where only a few forms of attack and strategy are generally accepted, or rather, used since they are the dominating method. I imagine it something along the lines of the quote by Bill Gates, "I will choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it."

 

And as for the Marelok situation, yeah that may have been a little overzealous on my behalf. Just comparing a one shot wonder to 70 rounds of pure crit from a Soma made it seem much fairer to me.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Vaether

[Vaether]

 

I completely agree. +1

 

Warframe PvP is a Twitch Shooter with Parkour. And not a Dragon Ball Z Battle. Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, or Counter Strike, ring any bells? Go google the TTK of those games.

 

People complain about the TTK in Warframe, that there are lots of weapons capable of 1-shotting or killing in less than a second, but so what? Be stealthy and don't get shot, be fast with twitch reflexes, react quickly and shoot first, and have good aim don't miss.

 

The PvP in Warframe is about twitch reflexes, aiming and parkour, being fast and stealthy, who reacts more quickly and with better aiming, who shoots firsts or start shooting first, will most likely win. Is about being fast and precise. And yes it does take a lot of skill. Let's not forget the cognitive prediction, to know the routes your enemy take, know his moves and how to counter them.

 

In my opinion, the suggestions on this OP would turn the Conclave PvP into a boring game. But i would be open to a another PvP game mode with the proposed settings.

 

My reply to Mastikator2 is along the same lines as what I wish to say to you. Thinking back on it now, the current Conclave is something of a gem compared to other PVP shooters. All of it is down to timing and reflexes, which is what the whole idea is based around. Maybe it's just my inexperience as a fresh mind to the Conclave but most of my battles were decided by mere numbers of health. 

 

I do appreciate your feedback though, its helping me decide where I wish to take my idea next.

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

there is one thing that i think would be nice for damage values. and that's hitboxes and vulnerable areas. like getting shot in the foot should have a slight damage penalty, but getting shot in the head should have some sort of bonus, perhaps a higher crit chance bonus.

but yeah, glad to see op sorta changed his mind.