We Need Better Enemy Ai For Stealth

[OrphanMaker]

Enemy Awareness
Enemies need radius awareness AI. What I mean by this is the enemies should pass information about being alerted based on their radius to one another, and should say something to one another about being alerted.

 

Enemy Cone Vision
Enemies need cone vision sight AI. Enemies should have a basic cone of vision that alerts them if players step into it. If the player steps in the cone of vision, the enemy will make a "whats that" gesture. Enemies should not fire until the player is in their cone of vision for atleast 3 seconds. This will give player a chance to move out of their cone of vision. If the player moves in time the enemy will go into an semialert state and mark last position player was seen in.

This cone vision should be seen on the minimap to help the player be aware of the enemy line of sight.
This cone should be white when unalerted, yellow while semialerted, and red when alerted. This cone should disappear when the enemies go into full alert from a console.

 

Enemy position AI
In the semialert state the enemy will investigate the marked position. The enemy investigating that location will grant the player a window of opportunity to flank the enemy and stealth kill it. If the enemy is not killed in time the enemy will alert the nearest enemy(enemy2). The nearest enemy2 will come and investigate the position. This will grant player a second time to kill the enemies. Depending on the enemey2 type it will say "it was nothing" (dealert) or say "we should alert the others" (alert).

 

Enemy semialert response
Enemies will choose to alert or not randomly.
All simple enemies like lancers and crewmen will have a high chance to dealert. Higher enemies like Bombards and Elite Crewmen will have a higher chance to alert.
Alert state enemies will not have a hive mind and instantly alert the whole map, but will alert other enemies based on proximity and the alert console.

 

Console Alert states
The console alert system should be less penalising and reworked.
The first state should be an unalert state.
The second state should be a semialert investigate state. This state will cause every enemy on the map to be more caustious and be slightly on alert. This will cause them to all have yellow vision cones and fire on sight if the player steps into their cone of sight.
The third state should be full alert. In this state the enemeis will move swiftly, and assault the player with full aggression.
The forth state should be the lockdown state.

 

Enemy Full Alert AI
Enemies in the full alert state should have a hive mind, but should not have a homing mechanism. This will allow players to kill a group of enemies or evade the hive sight to disappear completely from the radar. This should cause the enemies to go into a semialert investigate state until the player is seen again.

 

Map - Enemy Cone example

Edited July 26, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[aleco247]

we just need better AI, but stealth would be cool

[vaugahn]

The problem is even if enemies had these AI behaviors there would still be no real reason to stealth when you could just blast them all. There are no proper stealth objectives, or for that matter any situations at all where stealth would be ideal. There needs to be a reason to be stealthy first. 

[OrphanMaker]

The problem is even if enemies had these AI behaviors there would still be no real reason to stealth when you could just blast them all. There are no proper stealth objectives, or for that matter any situations at all where stealth would be ideal. There needs to be a reason to be stealthy first. 

Yeah, I was thinking of that. But maybe its that way for the veteran players but it not like that for new players. This game is kinda hard for new players, so stealthing a mission would be a great alternative.

Edited July 26, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[SOUP.CAN]

The problem is even if enemies had these AI behaviors there would still be no real reason to stealth when you could just blast them all. There are no proper stealth objectives, or for that matter any situations at all where stealth would be ideal. There needs to be a reason to be stealthy first. 

This is true. There really are no actual benefits to stealth, and as it takes a lot longer than running and gunning, most people just see it as a waste of time.

[vaugahn]

Yeah, I was thinking of that. But maybe its that way for the veteran players but it not like that for noobs.

 

Why implement the system then? They need to add stealth objectives, levels designed around stealth, stuff like that first. Perhaps sabotage 2.0 could be rebalanced for stealth?

 

The problem is stealth offers nothing right now, no matter how good enemy behaviors are.

[OtakuTom1992]

The problem is even if enemies had these AI behaviors there would still be no real reason to stealth when you could just blast them all. There are no proper stealth objectives, or for that matter any situations at all where stealth would be ideal. There needs to be a reason to be stealthy first. 

Stealth bonus rewards at the end of missions has been mentioned plenty of times 

[OrphanMaker]

Stealth bonus rewards at the end of missions has been mentioned plenty of times 

In this post I do not want to discuss the issue of their being no incentive for a stealth mission. I know the lack of an incentive is a problem, but for now I am discussing the general AI problems. But feel free to continue to bring up these problems. Maybe the DE will read it and decide to implement some sort of stealth incentive.

 

Also in one of the Devstream I watched they discussed the incentive problems, so I guess it is already on their radar.

[vaugahn]

Stealth bonus rewards at the end of missions has been mentioned plenty of times 

 

Even then players won't bother with it when it takes a comparatively long time to complete a stealth mission for just extra credits or affinity in return. There needs to be actual reason to be stealthy, not just a couple thousand credits extra at the end of the mission.

 

Beyond that, we need redesigned tiles for stealth. All our current ones are designed to put us and the enemy together in direct combat, very few of them offer any proper stealth options.

 

We also need some stealth behaviors for our player, such as peeking around corners and stuff. Right now the only way we can do that is by shifting the camera awkwardly around, and that doesn't give us a proper field of view even. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by vaugahn

[OrphanMaker]

Even then players won't bother with it when it takes a comparatively long time to complete a stealth mission for just extra credits or affinity in return. There needs to be actual reason to be stealthy, not just a couple thousand credits extra at the end of the mission.

 

Beyond that, we need redesigned tiles for stealth. All our current ones are designed to put us and the enemy together in direct combat, very few of them offer any proper stealth options.

 

We also need some stealth behaviors for our player, such as peeking around corners and stuff. Right now the only way we can do that is by shifting the camera awkwardly around, and that doesn't give us a proper field of view even. 

I have discussed earlier we need a simple stick to wall cover system. We should be able to toggle this system off and in options. The system would work by you holding the sprint or interact button while pushing against a wall (like the way wall run works). I hear some people would love the idea and some would hate it, but this is why it should toggle able in options.

Edited July 26, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[vaugahn]

I discussed earlier we need a simple stick to wall cover system. We should be able to toggle this system off and in options. The system would work by you holding the zoom button while pushing against a wall. I here a lot of people don't like the idea of taking cover, but I love the idea.

 

Well we wouldn't want to stick as that would hamper our parkour options, but we should have some contextual cover. If you've played Far Cry 3 you'll know what I'm talking about, when you're near a suitable object aiming down sights would automatically edge you around cover. This way we could still parkour freely, but also take cover properly in situations where that was required. It would make stealth a lot easier too. 

[OrphanMaker]

Well we wouldn't want to stick as that would hamper our parkour options, but we should have some contextual cover. If you've played Far Cry 3 you'll know what I'm talking about, when you're near a suitable object aiming down sights would automatically edge you around cover. This way we could still parkour freely, but also take cover properly in situations where that was required. It would make stealth a lot easier too. 

I would like to have a more gear of war cover system. It would help when I play survival on phobos with no abilities on. When you play with all your abilities off all of the flaws in the difficulty system come to light. But it is Uber fun.

Edited July 26, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[vaugahn]

I would like to have a more gear of war cover system. It would help when I play survival on phobos with no abilities on. When you play with all your abilities off all of the flaws in the difficulty system come to light. But it is Uber fun.

 

Definitely not. That would be terrible for our mobility options. Also AFAIK scaling is tied to weapons, not frame mods

[OrphanMaker]

Definitely not. That would be terrible for our mobility options. Also AFAIK scaling is tied to weapons, not frame mods

Well, that why it would be togglable. The people who do not like the system would not have to use, and the people who like to take cover will be able to take cover.

 

And anyways taking cover and steath go hand and hand. Both are considered tactical gameplay elements. You can not have one without the other.

 

Tactical gameplay is you taking cover behind a crate, with a sniper rifle, peeping over and shooting an enemy in the head. This would work great with Banshee denoting she is a stealth frame that can not turn invisible. The ability to take cover would be a godsend for her.

Edited July 26, 2014 by OrphanMaker