Alerts And Mods Aren't Rewarding At End Game

[nicopopolis]

I've been playing this game for quite some time and it's come to the point where playing the game just isn't rewarding anymore.  Any task that I could set to accomplish at this point just seems like a waste of time.  Let me explain with tl;dr after my rant.

 

Alerts have become annoying since I have a lot of the rewards already.  There are a handful of alert-only blueprints, alternate hemls and one artifact that I know of that I don't have.  The problem is as I continue to do alerts, I keep getting the stuff I already have... over and over and over.  I could keep doing them, but I really don't need pistol scavanger again.

 

Farming mods has also become unrewarding.  As your rank increases the amount of mods you need to reach the next level grows exponentially.  If my math is correct to get to rank 10 you need

1 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 +16 + 32 + 64 + 128 + 256 + 512 = 1024 mods

At lower levels as you see regular progression, and BIG progression, this is rewarding.  After about rank 4 the amount required to rank up to 5 seems ridiculous and the amount of benefit you get seems small in comparison.  0 to 60% is huge, 60% to 80% seems small in comparison even though it takes the same amount of mods.

 

Leveling new equipment is also less rewarding since the patch.  In the old system, you couldn't just slap level 30 +damage mods on your level 5 equipment.  You used to see your weapon improve bit by bit as you leveled it up and as the clip size, damage, fire rate, etc increased you could see it becoming more powerful and more useful.  Now it starts pretty much like it's gonna be at 30 without mods.  And as soon as you can slap you rank 6 +damage mod on it, it becomes ridiculously overpowered for its level.  Oh and another thing that annoys me is the fact that before the patch, you didn't need to supercharge your weapon until 15, which gave you plenty of time to decide if you planned on leveling a weapon all the way to 30 or not.  With the new system it feels like you're "missing out" on extra points if you don't supercharge it right away.  No trial period before using cash shop items.  I just don't like that.

 

The new Dual Ether Swords already piss me off.  They appear to be the exact same thing as the dual heat swords with faster attack speed and the same attack power.  If we're in for a progressive arms race to keep us buying slots and orikin catalysts, it makes the time I'm spending on my current gear feel like a waste of time.  I don't know if there are hidden stats that make this not this case but on the surface it appears to be so.

 

That brings up another complaint, the fact that harder missions seem pointless after the patch.  I like to actually be challenged by the game I'm playing and have to use my skill rather than mindlessly farm low level missions.  However, if the rewards aren't there, the players won't be there either.  Sure I could try to solo for a challenge, but in all honesty, I like getting bigger rewards for bigger challenges.

 

Ah, also the changes to powers don't make them feel powerful anymore, even at rank 3.  I understand that you didn't want people spamming their powers and wiping out entire rooms with ubers... but now they just feel weak.  I see more people ignoring using powers at all now.  That's not good because the powers are what make the frames unique.  But if Volt's 4 doesn't kill regular mobs past 20 it's really not worthwhile.  Here's an idea if you want people to stop spamming their powers, reduce the rate mobs drop energy orbs.  If mobs didn't drop energy as often, then a power that wipes out 15 people wouldn't drop enough energy to just do it again on the next group.  Problem solved.  Oh and as a fun perk to that idea, if you kept the energy drop rate from canisters the same, Thieves Wit would be an extremely useful mod again!

 

If you've bothered reading my rant up to this point, I also have concerns about the planned end game content discussed in the livestream.  Prestiging weapons?  Please don't.  I like using a variety of weapons, if I have to prestige them then I'm going to end up with one loadout and the game will feel stagnant.  Nerfs and buffs will annoy players more if you have them put even more time into a single loadout just to change what's most powerful later.  Also the ninja dojo sounds like a good idea in theory.  In reality look at how other games where players are supposed to group together to build something have done.  The main problem is ownership.  Basically if I'm not the leader of the clan, then how much say do I get in the customiztion of the dojo?  Can I be removed from a clan after donating lots of materials for its construction?  Will there be benefits to having a large clan/dojo?  I just see lots and lots of opportunities for that idea to be poorly executed.

 

TL;DR

Alerts keep dropping the same junk

Ranking up mods becomes stagnant at higher ranks

Slapping powerful mods on low level weapons takes away feeling of progression

Dual Ether swords are same as Heat Swords with better attack speed - new items trump old items

Higher level missions don't drop better loot, no reason to play at higher levels

Changes to warframe powers makes powers less useful

[Treble557]

+1 I agree. 

 

 

My biggest peeve with the game atm that's kept me from playing it much since the new mod system is the fact that the weapons have no method of progression and no feeling of natural growth anymore. It's just buy a catalyst, slap your damage card in, and faceroll S#&$. 

 

The growth of mod cards is ESPECIALLY annoying too. Like seriously, that S#&$ needs to be toned down hard.

 

I mean, this games got a fantastic gameplay system! and the devs should be focusing on ways to expand that even more and making it the feature that keeps you coming back, as opposed to grinding for mod card drops.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Treble557

[Cleesus]

I think if the lowered the amount of energy orbs dropped, people would use thier powers even less than they already do and just save it for critical moments.

[Madotsuki]

After reading through your whole post:

 

1. Alert rewards are mostly random. Adding more blueprints and items to the pool will help, and it's what the devs are doing anyway, but I see no reason to complain about getting "the same old things" from alerts just because you're a veteran and got it all already. Oh and you can read the Alert forums so you'll know whether an alert is worth your time.

 

2. I see what you mean with the mods not being worth leveling to max what with their diminishing returns, though it's sort of a standard for upgrade systems. It acts as a "resource lock" to prevent players from maxing a mod too fast, without making early upgrades too expensive. I agree with how Orokins are way more important now and how it seems stupid that, with an Orokin catalyst, a rank 4 pistol can use a +100% damage mod. I don't really see a fair way of fixing that under the current mod system though.

 

3. Certain weapons being outright better than others is inevitable in PvE games. They can't all be just sidegrades, or it would get boring. It's like how Hek is the best shotty, or Gorgon is the best rifle. Cronus being better than Skana in every way is the best example. Since this is beta, new gear will be constantly released, it should be expected that some new gear will be upgrades to existing ones. If you feel that a new gear is outright better than the gear you have, then sell your existing one and buy the new one. I also do not appreciate the extremely limited warframe/weapon slot system, but i guess that's a different subject.

 

4. Completely agree with high levels needing better loot to compensate the tougher difficulty. Not by nerfing lower level loot though, definately. >_>

 

5. Most warframe powers just outright need a rework IMO. They need to complement the gunplay/melee, not attempt to replace it. As it stands now, aside from using Ults as a panic button, most skills are completely useless compared to guns, exceptions including Iron Skin (invuln ubercharge), deployable shields, switch teleport, and Trinity/Excalibur stuff. Plus, using abilities should be encouraged since that's what makes Warframe unique, why would reducing energy orb drops be a good idea?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Madotsuki

[nicopopolis]

First of all, thanks guys for reading my giant rant.  I tried hard as I was writing it to express my concerns without giving suggestions because this is a feedback forum after all.

 

On the issue of powers and energy though, they said that they wanted people to use the powers tactically and not spam them.  I believe that was in the second to last livestream.  Anyways, before the changes people had 200-300 power and the 4 power on most AoE with all 3 points on the skill tree would oneshot most anything.  After update 7, people had 100 power on most frames and the mod for getting more was rare.  On top of that they reduced the area of effect as well as the damage done by powers.  However, the drop rate for energy from enemies didn't seem to change.  So people could still spam their powers, they just weren't as effective as they used to be.  In terms of the goal of getting people to stop spamming powers, it was effective because most people stopped using them.

 

With the goal of making powers Tactical, it would make more sense to reduce the rate at which energy is acquired.  If you had the previous capacity, when your power was full, you would use your powers because you wouldn't have to worry so much about not having the energy to use your uber if you got into a bad situation.  As it stands, I run around with a full energy bar constantly not using powers because if I use any power whatsoever, I won't be able to use my uber unless I get more energy on higher level missions.  Then again I also tend to not use my powers on high level missions beause they're too weak to kill basic enemies.  However on low level missions I use them with reckless disregard because I mow through enemies so fast that my power is back to full in no time.  Then again, depending on the power I also sometimes don't bother because it's quicker to shoot them then use powers due to the animation.

 

A weird double-whammy problem.  They're too slow to be useful at low levels and too weak to be useful at high levels!

 

Also, I know I can go lookup what the ? drop is.  I don't see the point of putting a ? in the game if they're just gonna post what it is on a website.  The act of tabbing out and checking what it is on the twitter feed is just extraneous and annoying.

[Madotsuki]

Also, I know I can go lookup what the ? drop is.  I don't see the point of putting a ? in the game if they're just gonna post what it is on a website.  The act of tabbing out and checking what it is on the twitter feed is just extraneous and annoying.

...I never thought about this. If there is an official forum and twitter about what the ? reward is, why is it still a ? in-game? :x Good point there :o

[L0G4N277]

tabing out crash my game so thats out for me. Ah, as for the Prestiging weapons that would be good because any one could use 100% elemently damage , 100% crit damage with a 120% crit chance, and 120% damage. You may say that would make it OP but the fact is when they come out with new lvls and bosses that are tougher people like you will be B!#%^ing that they need to nurf them cause their to hard and the weapons are to under powered. So Prestiging weapons is and will be a must.

[nicopopolis]

tabing out crash my game so thats out for me. Ah, as for the Prestiging weapons that would be good because any one could use 100% elemently damage , 100% crit damage with a 120% crit chance, and 120% damage. You may say that would make it OP but the fact is when they come out with new lvls and bosses that are tougher people like you will be B!#%^ing that they need to nurf them cause their to hard and the weapons are to under powered. So Prestiging weapons is and will be a must.

Ah, this is an interesting point where I have a lot to say in return.  You see, Warframe's current design provides a unique opportunity for how to add content that other MMOs can't execute as well due to their design.  Specifically, new levels can be injected into the middle of the game rather than constantly stacking on new "end game" content.  This can be done because each patch generally also came out with some new gear.  So you could create a complely new loadout (frame, gun, pistol, melee) and start over from level one and clear a different path than your first run to 30.  Hell, you don't even have to kill every boss in one play through, you could save some for you 2nd, 3rd, etc.  I did this quite often as on my first playthrough I tried to clear every single mission in a system before moving on to the next.  I realized after Venus that I was over level for Mars an moved on to Neptune.  That meant Mars, Earth and Jupiter were entirely skipped by my first warframe.  It gave me something to do when I leveled my second and so forth.

 

But this opportunity is unfortunately and wholeheartedly ruined by the player base.  Why?  Because every time new content comes out, people just slap on their level 30 gear and speed through it.  As I said in my first post, I want to play in groups and I want to play online, but I still want somewhat of a challenge.  Someone who could solo the mission "clearing it for me" isn't fun to me. 

[Makemap]

Alert missions have became pointless unless it is an assassination mission. You should be rewarded with a random uncommon-rare every mission as it has increase difficulty and mobs drop barely nothing.