Let's Discuss Critical Hits!

[Azamagon]

Critical hits have existed in many old games. But why? Often to simulate hitting "weakspots" (such as an enemy's head).

In Warframe, and many other new games, we can manually aim where we want to attack, including aiming at weakspots, so are critical hits really necessary?

 

There are 3 sides to this:

 

1) No, critical hits are redundant! I wanna rely on skill!

As explained above, some might consider it compleletely redundant to have critical hits since we can already aim at weakpoints ourselves. The people siding with this opinion often also seem to heavily dislike being "forced" to mod crit-weapons with crit-mods to make them effective. Which is an understandable concern.

 

2) Yes, critical hits add flavour! Having crit chances gives weapons niches, both in playstyle and modding!

On the other hand, critical hits do indeed add some flavour differences between weaponry. Some people might like these "luck"-guns. Also, critical hits can still be a logical part of the game, because, what if you hit an enemy's vital organ which is NOT the head (such as hitting the heart, liver etc). That can't be simulated very easily... unless you use critical hits of course! So, this option is also understandable.

 

That means, both these options could be considered correct! Hence this 3rd option:

 

3) Why not a compromise?

My suggestion for a compromise between both luck and skill: What if critical hits to weakspots (such as the head) gave a guaranteed critical hit (or given a flat +100% critchance, although, then luck is still partially involved), on top of the enemy's weakspot multipler?

Then you could mod for:

a) Luck-build - Add critchance and critdamage, then aim at center mass and hope for the best. This is best used on guns that are critreliant of course.

b) Skill-build - Add critdamage and aim for weakspots. Since you are guaranteed a critical hit upon a weakspot, there is no need to boost critchance. This would even be a viable build on weapons that are NOT critbased!

 

This still keeps the luckbased guns in the game, but aiming for weakspots involves less luck, both in practice (aiming) and in numbers (less RNG involved) and something you could actually mod for (critmultiplier mods)

 

Of course, this option would probably require a bit of balancing, such as:

* enemy weakspot multipliers would possibly need to be lowered (from the common 2x to maybe just 1.5x?)

* crit-based weapons might need to have their critmultipliers lowered quite a bit (Latron Prime comes to mind)

I honestly think this would be a nice compromise, as that caters to your PERSONAL PLAYSTYLE and your PLAYSKILL!

* possibly cap critical hits to max just allow doublecrits, aka red crits (no absurd triplecrits etc).

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 9, 2014 by Azamagon

[PeanutMonster]

You can still use ''skill'' to deal additional damage crit build or not. I don't know if it's just me, but I don't get the point of this topic.

[Azawarau]

You place skill in quotation as if it doest exist

[PeanutMonster]

You place skill in quotation as if it doest exist

 

Weapons in Warframe have very little to non-existing recoil, scoring headshots is dead easy.

[Azamagon]

You can still use ''skill'' to deal additional damage crit build or not. I don't know if it's just me, but I don't get the point of this topic.

Yes, you partially can. But there is no way to mod for skill, as in going for weakpoint shots, at all

 

Hypothetical example:

 

Current situation - Braton with 20 damage and 1.5 crit multiplier. Enemy has a 2.0x multiplier on weakspots

Non crit bodyshot - 20 damage

Critical bodyshot - 30 damage (20 * 1,5)

Non crit headshot - 40 damage (20 * 2)

Critical headshot - 60 damage (20 * 2 * 1,5)

Having Vital Sense in your build completely relies on luck to boost your shots, wether you hit the head or not.

 

My proposal would do this, with the headshot multipler nerfed to, say, 1.33...x

 

Version 1 - If we got +100% chance on a weakspot shot

Non crit bodyshot - 20 damage

Critical bodyshot - 30 damage (20 * 1,5)

Non crit (which is still 1x crit) headshot - 40 damage (20 * 1,5 * 1,33)

Critical (meaning, doublecrit) headshot - 60 damage (20 * 1,5 * 1,5 * 1,33)

Same numbers, right?

Maybe, but there is an important difference, which is that adding Vital Sense GUARANTEES that your Headshot will be more powerful. Thus, you can mod for a more skillbased playstyle than you can now, even if luck might still be partially involved.

 

Version 2 - If we simply got a guaranteed crit on a weakspot shot, with the same old headshot multiplier of 2x

Non crit bodyshot - 20 damage

Critical bodyshot - 30 damage (20 * 1,5)

Headshot - 60 damage (20 * 1,5 * 2)

However, this could be a tad problematic in how it should handle doublecrits and such.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Azamagon

[thegamer118]

i don think this is needed, we already have damage multipliers on weakspots that can require skills so we don t need to force players to use those weakspots to kill faster

Edited August 9, 2014 by thegamer118

[PeanutMonster]

Yes, you partially can. But the damage vary too wildly due to critical chances.

 

Hypothetical example:

 

Braton with 20 damage and 1.5 crit multiplier.

Non crit bodyshot - 20 damage

Critical bodyshot - 30 damage

Non crit headshot - 40 damage

Critical headshot - 60 damage

 

My proposal would do this:

Non crit bodyshot - 20 damage

Critical bodyshot - 30 damage

Headshot - 60 damage

 

Headshot damage does no longer rely on luck, only on your skill.

 

So headshots should always crit and use the weapons crit damage multiplier + the headshot damage multiplier? That would be nice! I think I understood the point of this thread now :P

Edited August 9, 2014 by PeanutMonster

[Azamagon]

So headshots should always crit and use the weapons crit damage multiplier + the headshot damage multiplier? That would be nice! I think I understood the point of this thread now :P

Yes, exactly!

Although, there are two variations of handling it. The one you quoted (my pre-edit) does not involve luck at all. But if the other option was done (that you got +100% critical chance on a headshot), then luck would still be involved (since you could doublecrit), but you could still MOD for your headshotting skill ;)

[thegamer118]

and this is even less needed for the players that use melee weapons more than primaries/secondaries, doing this won t give them any benefit

[Azamagon]

and this is even less needed for the players that use melee weapons more than primaries/secondaries, doing this won t give them any benefit

Well, that's a problem with melee weaponry, in that you can't aim up/down with them yourself (which is bad imo).

[thegamer118]

Well, that's a problem with melee weaponry, in that you can't aim up/down with them yourself (which is bad imo).

well that s how it is

[Azawarau]

Weapons in Warframe have very little to non-existing recoil, scoring headshots is dead easy.

And yet many players do sub par even in star chart missions....

[PeanutMonster]

and this is even less needed for the players that use melee weapons more than primaries/secondaries, doing this won t give them any benefit

 

Stealth attacks have huge damage multipliers. Of course it's not the same thing, but it's something.

[Azamagon]

well that s how it is

But it's something that needs changing anyway. Not being able to aim up/down with your melee weapons causes all kinds of problems:

* Troubles hitting low enemies (such as crawlers)

* Troubles hitting flying enemies (such as ospreys)

* Troubles in general fighting in slopes or stairs.