(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Also, when shooting with guns you need to pause, Maybe you do . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarframeStigma Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) oops Edited August 12, 2014 by Deathshatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Maybe you do . . . You can't really compare melee and guns. Both have different strengths and weaknesses, and they're both useful depending on the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 You can't really compare melee and guns. Both have different strengths and weaknesses, and they're both useful depending on the situation. There are rare cases where melee wins out, no doubt. But that is not what we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexlars Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Get an Excalibur Prime, gets you into any VIP area. Oh wait, you can't. Sorry. I laughed way harder than I should have at this. To the OP, you're playing on the PS4. Why are you surprised at that kind of mindset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 There are rare cases where melee wins out, no doubt. But that is not what we are talking about. I wouldn't say rare cases. Depending on the weapon you're using melee will kill just as many enemies as your guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphafox Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I wouldn't say rare cases. Depending on the weapon you're using melee will kill just as many enemies as your guns. If not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I wouldn't say rare cases. Depending on the weapon you're using melee will kill just as many enemies as your guns. Assuming they all spawned in your face, and you were a terrible shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Twenty7Talonz Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 from what i have gathered, Excalibur is an excellent starting frame in that it is incredibly balanced and very user friendly towards new players. Slash dash gets you out of a jam quick, radial blind keeps people off of you and gives you breathing room, super jump lets you be more agile as you pick up on the parkour, and his ult is a solid one. But now we get into one of my main gripes with warframe; damage dealing powers scale poorly into late game; since most do a set damage number, it results in the low level enemies being completely oblitherated and the stronger ones taking next to no damage. since excal has two damage powers and one utility you are really only left with radial blind which is useful but no on its own. While i do feel rhino is overused in high-level play, there is some merit as in the T4 missions one needs to focus on outlasting their oppenents as they can grind you up in no time; what people see in the rhino for that is not his damage attacks, but iron skin, roar for a damage buff, and stomp to get some breathing room when needed. "jack of all trades, master of none" fits this very well to excal as the more specialized frames (especially ones with few/no damage powers:Loki, trinity, nyx, etc.) scale very well and are useful with the high level you are playing on Did you gather that radial blind gives everybody in the area a chance at 4x melee damage on blinded enemies ? Ending t4 survivals with 800 or so kills credited to my serro and 50%+ of the damage dealt never gets old to me...Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Ending t4 survivals with 800 or so kills credited to my serro and 50%+ of the damage dealt never gets old to me...Never. That is a completely valid way to look at things. It is also a perfect example of why I never want an Excal on my squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuy08 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Maybe you do . . . This guy is just arguing to argue at this point. I say stop wasting your time trying to convince him. The ignorant are set in their ways and that is that. You can open this guy up to knowledge but he has decided that Excal is a lack luster frame and he is free to keep that opinion. I remember when I got my Kubrow. I thought Sunika was the best slapped 6 formas on him and enjoyed. That was until I saw a huras that was one shooting everything and looked like it would go better in my Excal build. Instead of saying,"No I am right and have the best setup", I spent weeks getting a huras to test out and now I realize it will work better. I am working on leveling and formaing it now. When I started I figured Loki blind build was the best. Eventually I saw a RD Loki and said that seemed better. Months went by and finally I saw a Nyx in T3D (back when T3 was the highest content) and was impressed. Same with Ash Rhino etc. My point is many of us after seeing something impressive went out and created builds tested them and saw what worked and didn't work. In the long I have settled somewhat of Excal was not due to seeing someone playing him well (I really haven't seen that).I went to the builder and realized I could create a pseudo stealth, cc, melee build with one skill and 3 extra slots. A 5 second stun with a 5 second cd that could effectively stun lock a room for 12.5 energy. I realized I would be an @$$ not to explore if this build could be any good. I tried it and it worked. the problem is too many players feel that there is some optimal meta setup that is the absolute best when sadly there isn't. In Warframe it just so happens many build work effectively. However many players stick ot the same BS and think they know the best way to do all things. That's why I say good players do not really factor what others bring. they have an inkling of how far they can get with their build and frame alone. This is where it gets tough to swallow for some. In endless anything 3 frames Loki (RD build), Nyx (Chaos,Absorb), and Excal (RB build) can carry just about any set up indefinitely. You can tell me about your trinity, your, Valk, Rhino etc. they are good but then infinite scaling comes into play those 3 can with perfect play do any infinite content and carry a team. You may not like to hear it or accept it but in terms of CC there is nothign stronger than those 3 (not your Frost, not your Nova, and not your Vauban). So discount Excal. I can understand the popular opinion. It is the sad fact that this ignorance is so widespread that makes me think players are too full of themselves to experiment and learn. Every frame has a slot but when one of the top frames is ignored simply for being the oldest and a starter I wonder how some people even play this game. Edited August 12, 2014 by TheGuy08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This is where it gets tough to swallow for some. In endless anything 3 frames Loki (RD build), Nyx (Chaos,Absorb), and Excal (RB build) can carry just about any set up indefinitely. You can tell me about your trinity, your, Valk, Rhino etc. they are good but then infinite scaling comes into play those 3 can with perfect play do any infinite content and carry a team. You may not like to hear it or accept it but in terms of CC there is nothign stronger than those 3 (not your Frost, not your Nova, and not your Vauban). Actually I'd say Vauban is arguably better than any of those 3 in an infestation endless mission, and Mag can be added to that list in a Corpus one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarframeStigma Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 i will be the first to admit that i didnt see Excalibur as a more useful frame compared to the others until i read this thread. but now the people who still dont understand really kinda have to understand the utility of Excalibur with Radial Blind. with that ability in consideration, Excalibur is only as good as your melee weapon, quite literally. so if you cant make good use of your melee weapon against blinded enemies at 4x damage, then that means you either have a bad melee weapon or you simply arent used to using melee weapons at an endgame difficulty. do consider that during the duration of the blind, Valkyr's Warcry or Rhino's Roar complement the 4x melee damage (even loki gets a big advantage with those when invisible). for those that are claiming that melee weapons dont kill as fast as guns, with maximum duration, you get at least 20 seconds of hack and slash. and if you dont like hacking and slashing, then you better hope to have a rifle that's on par with your 4x damage melee weapon. and there's Rhino. with his Iron Skin, he's protected from enemies. with Roar, he gets increased damage for all weapons. with Stomp, he gets limited crowd control at a limited radius. guess what, Blind essentially does all three of those at a much longer range, all in one mod. i include iron skin because during the duration that Blind is in effect, the effected enemies cant even touch Excalibur. so at that point, it all comes down to the weapons you choose to use. put Rhino and Excalibur on a competition to see who lasts longer with their abilities in T4, Excalibur will last longer because people concern themselves too much on how fast you kill your enemy rather than thinking about the opportunities with the limited time you have. in that sense, Rhino has less opportunities because he cannot spam Stomp, in T4 he just has to hope that he can finish off the enemies quick enough so that he can Stomp another time. hope that Iron Skin and Roar keep him alive in that limited time while more enemies surround and overwhelm him. and then he finally kills the affected enemies, but after using three different abilities, he has less energy to make use of. and then he has to think about the fact that just one of the enemies burned out his Iron skin and his roar has run out. and all he has to live off of are his weapons and armor. better hope that his guns are good enough to last him a few extra seconds of carnage. then there's excalibur. it doesnt matter the level of enemy. Radial Blind serves its purpose in nearly all situations. and then some... he is surrounded by enemies 50 meters all around, and he blinds them all with one ability, max efficiency at around 12 energy. he has a choice: spend that time killing the enemies with 4x melee damage or use his rifle to subdue them all if possible. he has a maximum of around 20 seconds to do this. Excalibur had already made his choice, slaughtering half the effected enemies already. more enemies come in, so he uses blind again and the process is repeated over again. the enemies get more difficult over time, but with Radial Blind being only one ability at maximum efficiency, he can last far longer than Rhino who would rely on up to three abilities. worst case scenario, a team mate goes down at that difficulty. all excalibur needs to do is blind his enemies, no matter the level, and he will be safe. but rhino has to hope that his Iron Skin and Stomp combined are enough to bring down all given enemies. but in such a difficulty. everyone is down, and more enemies are poring in armed and ready to subdue rhino with very few bullets. how far can Rhino go? how far before certain death consumes his fragile soul? Excalibur is meta, if you know how to use him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SairentoDangan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I used Exca with Decaying key on.And I survived for 45 mins with my teammate.So why everyone wanna some "Survival" with the most "Survival" Frame-type like Rhino P?It's a game, you play for fun, try out some playing style. I don't even wanna farm for Boltor Prime. Why? Cause I love challenge (Bring a Dread with no Forma on, go to some Def or Survival and hug the door, penetrate 10 enemies at a time make my mind.... feel... good!) BTW, my guildmate everyone. Edited August 12, 2014 by SairentoDangan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuy08 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Actually I'd say Vauban is arguably better than any of those 3 in an infestation endless mission, and Mag can be added to that list in a Corpus one. "In endless anything" Those 3 frames any faction doesn't matter. Nyx will out do Vauban vs infested with absorb alone. Without the fear of ranged units she will out DPS him, more cheaply protect the pod, and has no cc limit (bastille). Eventually in a true endless situation Vauban simply will not clear faster than Nyx. Mag still run the chance of errant shots. Which Both Excal and Loki can deal with and cc for them. Pull while good isn't at the level of CC that those 3 have. And while she can essentially one shot a room in terms of over all control in a endless situation vs a ranged faction those 3 will still win. Like I said those 3 frames no matter what type of endless can carry a team. This is not true of Vauban or Mag. Edited August 12, 2014 by TheGuy08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphafox Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This guy is just arguing to argue at this point. I say stop wasting your time trying to convince him. The ignorant are set in their ways and that is that. You can open this guy up to knowledge but he has decided that Excal is a lack luster frame and he is free to keep that opinion. Every frame has a slot but when one of the top frames is ignored simply for being the oldest and a started I wonder how some people even play this game. *Sigh* So much truth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 -snip- Optimal setup for a non-infested endless mission is Trinity + Loki + Vauban + Nekros/Mag. For infested you just swap Loki out with Nova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Optimal setup for a non-infested endless mission is Trinity + Loki + Vauban + Nekros/Mag. For infested you just swap Loki out with Nova. I'll take an Excal instead of a Loki any time. They can both shut down a room equally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroran_Svitskna Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 ok once i get my Excalibro, ill be the one laughing during a T4 survival and im the last one standing... WAT NOW TRY HARDS? WHOS LAUGHING NOW?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'll take an Excal instead of a Loki any time. They can both shut down a room equally well. Except Loki permanently disarms them, so they have to rush at you to do damage, which Vauban can easily shut down with his Vortex or Bastille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarframeStigma Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 ok once i get my Excalibro, ill be the one laughing during a T4 survival and im the last one standing... WAT NOW TRY HARDS? WHOS LAUGHING NOW?!?!?! the Lotus...the Lotus will always be the last one laughing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroran_Svitskna Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This guy is just arguing to argue at this point. I say stop wasting your time trying to convince him. The ignorant are set in their ways and that is that. You can open this guy up to knowledge but he has decided that Excal is a lack luster frame and he is free to keep that opinion. I remember when I got my Kubrow. I thought Sunika was the best slapped 6 formas on him and enjoyed. That was until I saw a huras that was one shooting everything and looked like it would go better in my Excal build. Instead of saying,"No I am right and have the best setup", I spent weeks getting a huras to test out and now I realize it will work better. I am working on leveling and formaing it now. When I started I figured Loki blind build was the best. Eventually I saw a RD Loki and said that seemed better. Months went by and finally I saw a Nyx in T3D (back when T3 was the highest content) and was impressed. Same with Ash Rhino etc. My point is many of us after seeing something impressive went out and created builds tested them and saw what worked and didn't work. In the long I have settled somewhat of Excal was not due to seeing someone playing him well (I really haven't seen that).I went to the builder and realized I could create a pseudo stealth, cc, melee build with one skill and 3 extra slots. A 5 second stun with a 5 second cd that could effectively stun lock a room for 12.5 energy. I realized I would be an @$$ not to explore if this build could be any good. I tried it and it worked. the problem is too many players feel that there is some optimal meta setup that is the absolute best when sadly there isn't. In Warframe it just so happens many build work effectively. However many players stick ot the same BS and think they know the best way to do all things. That's why I say good players do not really factor what others bring. they have an inkling of how far they can get with their build and frame alone. This is where it gets tough to swallow for some. In endless anything 3 frames Loki (RD build), Nyx (Chaos,Absorb), and Excal (RB build) can carry just about any set up indefinitely. You can tell me about your trinity, your, Valk, Rhino etc. they are good but then infinite scaling comes into play those 3 can with perfect play do any infinite content and carry a team. You may not like to hear it or accept it but in terms of CC there is nothign stronger than those 3 (not your Frost, not your Nova, and not your Vauban). So discount Excal. I can understand the popular opinion. It is the sad fact that this ignorance is so widespread that makes me think players are too full of themselves to experiment and learn. Every frame has a slot but when one of the top frames is ignored simply for being the oldest and a started I wonder how some people even play this game. yesa know, i agree, i use a Mirage with a Latron Prime, AKStillettos, and Glaive and i max out a whopping 556 Conclave, think im stll good, u gotta be crazy to say no, i maxed out my Hall of Mirros for use of my AKStillettos, confusing my enemy, and doubling my damage, Prism i maxed, allowing my to kill almost anything instantly when things get rough, and yet i still culd have some tgrouble getting into a lobby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 yesa know, i agree, i use a Mirage with a Latron Prime, AKStillettos, and Glaive and i max out a whopping 556 Conclave, think im stll good, u gotta be crazy to say no, i maxed out my Hall of Mirros for use of my AKStillettos, confusing my enemy, and doubling my damage, Prism i maxed, allowing my to kill almost anything instantly when things get rough, and yet i still culd have some tgrouble getting into a lobby... What build do you have where prism kills stuff? I used it in a T3E the other day and it was barely scratching dudes D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroran_Svitskna Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 What build do you have where prism kills stuff? I used it in a T3E the other day and it was barely scratching dudes D: get flow, uprgade t a bit, maxed streamline, natural talent, and for Hall of Mirrors, same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 get flow, uprgade t a bit, maxed streamline, natural talent, and for Hall of Mirrors, same thing It still only does like 250 damage per tick though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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