A Few Things To Consider Regarding Nerfing.

[insaninater]

I'm not sure if all the pro-nerfing people out there realize these points, so I'll post here, in a desperate attempt to get you to see that nerfing everything is going to have serious drawbacks on the game.

 

1) There will always be weapons people prefer using.

 

This is largely a follow-the-leader attitude as much as it reflects the weapons themselves, but there will always be certain loadouts people like using. You can nerf every weapon and frame three times over and people will still find a setup they like using, will share it with others, and those people will use it.

 

2) Once you've nerfed everything, you've defeated the purpose of nerfing.

 

At one point, with the rate these nerfs are going, every weapon and frame in the game will be nerfed at some point. So without buffing the weaker weapons and frames to balance things out, you'll just go on to nerf what has already been nerfed, and soon enough, none of us will be able to get off mercury, and you haven't accomplished anything positive in the process.

 

3) Nerfing will destroy buyer faith in in-game content.

 

If this nerf train doesn't slow down, then eventually nobody will buy in-game content. Why? Because that thing they want to buy is going to get nerfed a week later. It doesn't foster good faith between consumer and buyer. Every time you buy something is a gamble, since it could be as weak as the MK-1 braton come the next hotfix. This is probably the aspect most threatening to the game as a whole. Without a sense of stability, a sense that the thing you're buying is going to be the thing you're buying and not a shell of what it once was long term, then why should any of us put down real money?

 

4) It's destroys incentive to customize.

 

This ties in largely with the point above, but so long as there's no compensation available, every nerf is spitting in the face of anyone who actually put a lot of time, effort, and potential plat into the honing of their favorite weapon or frame. Does it really make sense for anyone to bother with catalysts, reactor, or forma when come next update all that effort is flushed down the drain? Without the option to recover those resources, the whole process was a total waste.

 

 

 

I really hope you guys will take a moment to seriously consider the long-term consequences of a culture of constant nerfing. I hope you can see past any petty spite you might have against (insert weapon/frame you don't like here) users and try to see the bigger picture here for all our sakes.

 

[BrotherIcarus]

I mean like as much as people joke about it undeserved nerfs are very uncommon, sure they often don't hit perfect on nerfs sometimes but for the most part they are fine. 

 

On a note of the people asking for nerfs, they will always exist no matter what if a weapon is good then someone wants it nerfed. 

[insaninater]

I mean like as much as people joke about it undeserved nerfs are very uncommon, sure they often don't hit perfect on nerfs sometimes but for the most part they are fine. 

 

On a note of the people asking for nerfs, they will always exist no matter what if a weapon is good then someone wants it nerfed. 

 

But a weapon being "good" is relative to other weapons. Therefore, there is no point at which the nerfers will be satisfied.

Edited August 22, 2014 by insaninater

[xethier]

what's nerfed today could just as easily be buffed tomorrow.

power creep exists in this game as much or more than nerfing. 

 

*cough* boltor prime *cough* penta *cough* soma *cough*

 

sorry, had something stuck in my throat.

 

i've been here just under a year and i've seen radical shifts in both directions. but to use such hyperbole is disingenuous at best and badly misleading at worst.

[CptFaustas]

So basically making launcher ammo more logical you feel that the game was destroyed? Also snipers were buffed there.

 

And nerfing toxic gameplay is good. FFS, i never run out of launcher ammo now anyway.

 

And if you put catalysts/forma/plat into a weapon it will become great. If you only need "top dps lolz", then it's your personal problem.

[BrotherIcarus]

But a weapon being "good" is relative to other weapons. Therefore, there is no point at which the nerfers will be satisfied.

That's what I am saying. 

[insaninater]

what's nerfed today could just as easily be buffed tomorrow.

power creep exists in this game as much or more than nerfing. 

 

*cough* boltor prime *cough* penta *cough* soma *cough*

 

sorry, had something stuck in my throat.

 

i've been here just under a year and i've seen radical shifts in both directions. but to use such hyperbole is disingenuous at best and badly misleading at worst.

 

Penta just got a disastrous nerf if you haven't been paying attention. As for boltor prime, it's been around for a long time now, and i don't recall it ever being buffed.

 

As for buffs, we see them occasionally, but compare the sniper buff to the launcher nerf and you'll see the net is very much a nerf overall.

Edited August 22, 2014 by insaninater

[CptFaustas]

Penta just got a disastrous nerf if you haven't been paying attention. As for boltor prime, it's been around for a long time now, and i don't recall it ever being buffed.

If by disastrous you mean that now you have to use it with mre than 1 brain cell then yeah it is like that.

 

Aim at groups of enemies - profit.

[xethier]

Penta just got a disastrous nerf if you haven't been paying attention. As for boltor prime, it's been around for a long time now, and i don't recall it ever being buffed.

 

penta just got it's ammo reduced, but i don't see anything relating to it's stats otherwise. (which a simple and cheap ammo pad will fix)

and the boltor prime is grossly overpowered when compared to it's non-prime version.

totally out of sync with previous primed version of weaponry. (which is an example of power-creep, which was what i was referring to with those three examples)

[Orbister]

I'm not sure if all the pro-nerfing people out there realize these points, so I'll post here, in a desperate attempt to get you to see that nerfing everything is going to have serious drawbacks on the game.

 

1) There will always be weapons people prefer using.

 

This is largely a follow-the-leader attitude as much as it reflects the weapons themselves, but there will always be certain loadouts people like using. You can nerf every weapon and frame three times over and people will still find a setup they like using, will share it with others, and those people will use it.

 

2) Once you've nerfed everything, you've defeated the purpose of nerfing.

 

At one point, with the rate these nerfs are going, every weapon and frame in the game will be nerfed at some point. So without buffing the weaker weapons and frames to balance things out, you'll just go on to nerf what has already been nerfed, and soon enough, none of us will be able to get off mercury, and you haven't accomplished anything positive in the process.

I stopped reading here... this is just the stupidest "reason" ever... do you want them to stop nerfing to save nerfing?... it's just nonsense... nerfing is not a core mechanic... its a balancing process, it's not supposed to even happen in the first place, and it happens when Developers correct certain mistakes they haven't considered as mistakes before.

It's not that nerfing can't stop, it only happens if needed.

 

Also, google "warframe forma" you might find out some interesting facts about weapon building, there are a couple more things you can do to enemies besides dropping 500 grenades and 500 rockets on them, actually the very definition of efficiency is economy of resources, if u need 500 grenades to play u fail bad, really bad.

 

Nerf is not your enemy, Power Creep is, Power Creep can certainly make weapons obsolete.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Orbister

[insaninater]

penta just got it's ammo reduced, but i don't see anything relating to it's stats otherwise. (which a simple and cheap ammo pad will fix)

and the boltor prime is grossly overpowered when compared to it's non-prime version.

totally out of sync with previous primed version of weaponry. (which is an example of power-creep, which was what i was referring to with those three examples)

 

You mean like braton prime? Which is a total joke?

[insaninater]

I stopped reading here... this is just the stupidest "reason" ever... do you want them to stop nerfing to save nerfing?... it's just nonsense... nerfing is not a core mechanic... its a balancing process, it's not supposed to even happen in the first place, and it happens when Developers correct certain mistakes they haven't considered as mistakes before.

It's not that nerfing can't stop, it only happens if needed.

 

>it's not supposed to even happen in the first place

 

Well then something's gone very very wrong, hasn't it?

 

Maybe it didn't use to be a core mechanic, but it is now. It is exactly that it can't be stopped.

Edited August 22, 2014 by insaninater

[CptFaustas]

penta just got it's ammo reduced, but i don't see anything relating to it's stats otherwise. (which a simple and cheap ammo pad will fix)

and the boltor prime is grossly overpowered when compared to it's non-prime version.

totally out of sync with previous primed version of weaponry. (which is an example of power-creep, which was what i was referring to with those three examples)

Well power creep came mostly because people kept blabering how primes should be miles ahead of their normal counterparts. We have it, now other people are unhappy. Simple thing is it's not the majority of players that are crying over and over, but they are the loudest. I like launcher nerfs. I liked Frost nerfs. I liked Trinity nerfs. Those were all needed.

[xethier]

You mean like braton prime? Which is a total joke?

 

braton prime was released over a year ago. (not sure, was before my time)

even before they released the soma, which out-does the braton prime hands-down.

 

and in this case, all you're doing is making my case for me.

[xethier]

Well power creep came mostly because people kept blabering how primes should be miles ahead of their normal counterparts. We have it, now other people are unhappy. Simple thing is it's not the majority of players that are crying over and over, but they are the loudest. I like launcher nerfs. I liked Frost nerfs. I liked Trinity nerfs. Those were all needed.

 

i'm not advocating nerfs or railing off on power-creep (both are a necessity for persistent worlds) i was using it as a counter point to the OP's rant about nerfing. i'd like to see more lateral implementations of new equipment instead of direct upgrades, but that's an entirely different topic.

[vaugahn]

Oh dear god, one of these threads again.

 

To achieve an acceptable level of balance, some things have to get nerfed and some things have to get buffed. That's it. Saying that everything in the game is going to get nerfed is just ridiculous, the same goes for claiming there are people who just love nerfing.

[insaninater]

braton prime was released over a year ago. (not sure, was before my time)

even before they released the soma, which out-does the braton prime hands-down.

 

and in this case, all you're doing is making my case for me.

 

Braton prime was nerfed post-release if i'm not mistaken. How am i making your case at all?

[Dalawantahr]

3) Nerfing will destroy buyer faith in in-game content.

 

If this nerf train doesn't slow down, then eventually nobody will buy in-game content. Why? Because that thing they want to buy is going to get nerfed a week later. It doesn't foster good faith between consumer and buyer. Every time you buy something is a gamble, since it could be as weak as the MK-1 braton come the next hotfix. This is probably the aspect most threatening to the game as a whole. Without a sense of stability, a sense that the thing you're buying is going to be the thing you're buying and not a shell of what it once was long term, then why should any of us put down real money?

 

4) It's destroys incentive to customize.

 

This ties in largely with the point above, but so long as there's no compensation available, every nerf is spitting in the face of anyone who actually put a lot of time, effort, and potential plat into the honing of their favorite weapon or frame. Does it really make sense for anyone to bother with catalysts, reactor, or forma when come next update all that effort is flushed down the drain? Without the option to recover those resources, the whole process was a total waste.

For me personally is this, I'm actually (not kidding) afraid on buying and putting potatoes on new frames or weapons now. I don't have the piece of mind to do any of it. Now if DE ever guarantee us, or make it right the first time when they introduce something into the game, that will be great. But slim chance for that I guess.

[Orbister]

>it's not supposed to even happen in the first place

 

Well then something's gone very very wrong, hasn't it?

 

Maybe it didn't use to be a core mechanic, but it is now. It is exactly that it can't be stopped.

Are you really, but REALLY saying that nerfing is a game mechanic now? that doesn't even make any sense... are you a very young kid or something? you are missing ALL and ANY point.

[insaninater]

Oh dear god, one of these threads again.

 

To achieve an acceptable level of balance, some things have to get nerfed and some things have to get buffed. That's it. Saying that everything in the game is going to get nerfed is just ridiculous, the same goes for claiming there are people who just love nerfing.

 

except things get nerfed far more often than they get buffed, and to a much more extreme extent. Again, the sniper buff compared to the launcher nerf is a good example.

[xethier]

Braton prime was nerfed post-release if i'm not mistaken. How am i making your case at all?

 

power creep over time. meaning the attitude about prime weapons when the braton was released vs. when the boltor was released.

this game has gone through some absurd mood-swings in relative damage outputs in the last 1.5 years. (from what i've been able to gather, i started u10)

 

hell, half the clantech weapons are easily out-done by many of the recently released weaponry.

i'm not upset about that, i expect it with persistent worlds, but i think your expectations are a bit skewed.

[insaninater]

Are you really, but REALLY saying that nerfing is a game mechanic now? that doesn't even make any sense... are you a very young kid or something? you are missing ALL and ANY point.

 

Every single update something gets nerfed. Whatever you want to call that, it's not a minor part of the game experience anymore that can be ignored. It's a clockwork process of the game for things to get nerfed.

[-Snowy_Nights-]

eh.....i think people just *@##$ about nerfing the better weapons because they play missions with level 1-20 enemies or they get killed by other players with these weapons that the complainers don't have. Noobs get what they want i suppose.

[Orbister]

Why not add a weapon with infinite ammo that doesnt really need ammo because once you press the trigger it kills all and EVERY enemy no matter how far it is? how about if we actually get rid of weapons altogether and give ALL frames only ONE ability called "kill everything" that kills everything in the whole map just by pressing the 1 key, and why not make it free to use also! no energy consumption at all! maybe... maybe this is too far... but maybe we could just win the game when we enter our password at the login screen! you input your password and the next thing you see is a message that says "you have destroyed all the things and you won the game!"

[CptFaustas]

except things get nerfed far more often than they get buffed, and to a much more extreme extent. Again, the sniper buff compared to the launcher nerf is a good example.

Because they are absurdly abused. To what end you even need that much firepower? Getting to high waves of defense or survival can be done with a lot of weapons.

 

Are you THAT dense that you can't see reasons behind nerfs at all?